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Audio quest Dragon fly colbat

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Comments

  • richardyotrichardyot
    edited November 2021

    @timforsyth said
    Are the 770s fun for different music styles? (Electronic, folk, indie etc..)

    How’s the bass? I appreciate the urbanites are a bit like owning a set of beats but I keep coming back to them for that extra oomph, even though it’s a bit too much.

    Finally, I was looking at the dragonfly as well, out of curiosity, whats it like driving the 80ohms direct from an iPad?

    Yes I would say the 770s are definitely fun, they have a great soundstage for closed headphones and obviously the sound signature is geared to the highs and lows. The bass is very deep, if a bit too strong.

    The iPad drives them just fine, no need for a Dragonfly unless you are planning to get the 250 ohm version, but 80ohms will be ok.

    As a subjective opinion if you are looking for a “fun” pair of headphones I would recommend the Sennheiser HD 25 Pros (the ones with the split headband). They’re the most fun headphones I’ve heard, with a great punchy bass. The DT770 is more mellow in comparison.

  • timforsythtimforsyth
    edited November 2021

    @richardyot said:

    As a subjective opinion if you are looking for a “fun” pair of headphones I would recommend the Sennheiser HD 25 Pros (the ones with the split headband). They’re the most fun headphones I’ve heard, with a great punchy bass. The DT770 is more mellow in comparison.

    Thanks! I hadn't considered these, will do some reading.

    Edit: also thanks for clearing up the need for a dragonfly, I’ve found the dac in the iPad to be pretty decent. I hadn’t appreciated how bad dacs can be until one day I used my phone, a Huawei P20, it was absolutely dreadful.

  • SandstormSandstorm
    edited November 2021

    @ashh said:

    @Sandstorm said:

    @richardyot said:
    The DT770s have a pretty U-shaped frequency response curve (hyped bass and treble, recessed mids), which can sometimes mess with the timbre of instruments IMO. They're fun to listen to, but I wouldn't call them neutral. That's partly why I recommended the HD600 or the AT ATH R70x, these are flatter and more accurate headphones that will more faithfully represent the music you are listening to (with some caveats obviously, no headphone is perfect).

    If it's the most detailed presentation you are looking for then a pair of open headphones like the ones I mention above are great options, otherwise you might also want to consider IEMs which can also be very detailed and will have more sub-bass than open headphones (open-backed headphones can't really do justice to sub 100hz frequencies, although they do excel in every other area).

    The other thing that I have just realised is maybe my age is a contributing factor. I'm 52 and, as you may know, human hearing gets worse with age. I have always thought my hearing was fantastic but after a few tests I can only hear up to 16khz which is way below the 20khz that humans can hear.

    I did look at the AT ATH R70s but they are out of my price range. Do you think they are better than the 770s considering they are over double the price?

    Cheers

    What is it about the 770s that have you looking at other cans? Let's try to zero in on exactly what you want.

    Nothing to be honest. I'm very much a novice when it comes to the technical aspects of headphones and why you should choose a certain pair that would help mixing mastering etc. I purchased the DT770 pros after reading numerous reviews and they came out the best for my price range.

    I originally posted regarding the colbalt as I had watched John Darkos youtube review on it and was interested in knowing if it would greatly enhance my listening pleasure as opposed using my laptop or mobile phone headphone outputs.

    I know the DT770s are great but would never dream of taking them out and about. another point which I forgot to mention is my headphone output on my smart phone has died so another reason to see if the colbalt would be a good investment.

    I do have blue tooth ear buds, which I just upgraded to the ear bud funs which sound better than my last pair that died.

    All in all I really appreciate the help you and @richardyot have given me on this topic. Thank you both.

  • richardyotrichardyot

    Out of curiosity I watched that review:

    I would take everything he says with a large pinch of salt. He's using very easily driven IEMs and claiming that the difference between the output from his Cobalt is night and day better than the output from an iPhone or a Macbook. Personally I would never take this kind of review seriously, because these kinds of impressions simply aren't reliable.

    It's very similar to wine tasting: with sighted tasting even experts will prefer more expensive wine. In blind tastings they don't. In the world of audio confirmation bias prompts reviewers to give all sorts of magical qualities to expensive products that simply disappear in blind tests. Our auditory memories are very short (we can't accurately remember sound for more than a few seconds) and all humans are subject to confirmation bias.

    In my experience it's practically impossible to tell the output from an iPhone compared to a Dragonfly Red when driving IEMs. I would be very surprised if the same didn't also apply to the Cobalt.

  • ashhashh
    edited November 2021

    @richardyot said:
    Out of curiosity I watched that review:

    I would take everything he says with a large pinch of salt. He's using very easily driven IEMs and claiming that the difference between the output from his Cobalt is night and day better than the output from an iPhone or a Macbook. Personally I would never take this kind of review seriously, because these kinds of impressions simply aren't reliable.

    It's very similar to wine tasting: with sighted tasting even experts will prefer more expensive wine. In blind tastings they don't. In the world of audio confirmation bias prompts reviewers to give all sorts of magical qualities to expensive products that simply disappear in blind tests. Our auditory memories are very short (we can't accurately remember sound for more than a few seconds) and all humans are subject to confirmation bias.

    In my experience it's practically impossible to tell the output from an iPhone compared to a Dragonfly Red when driving IEMs. I would be very surprised if the same didn't also apply to the Cobalt.

    Yep! I found Mr Darko's posts very informative but now I know a bit more I find that his advice doesn't match my experience. I bought a Dragonfly DAC after hearing his enthusiastic reviews of them. I'm pretty sure that they are genuine views, rather than paid and he does try very hard to demistify the audiophile world. However, I still think he's very much about tiny differences being an enormous leap forward when, for us normal people, they're very hard to spot.

    IMO DACs for phones are simply a place to plug your wired phones into. Anything else is a bonus that may or may not apply to your set up. Especially since Apple DACs have blown all the 'cheaper' end away.

  • SandstormSandstorm

    @richardyot said:
    Out of curiosity I watched that review:

    I would take everything he says with a large pinch of salt. He's using very easily driven IEMs and claiming that the difference between the output from his Cobalt is night and day better than the output from an iPhone or a Macbook. Personally I would never take this kind of review seriously, because these kinds of impressions simply aren't reliable.

    It's very similar to wine tasting: with sighted tasting even experts will prefer more expensive wine. In blind tastings they don't. In the world of audio confirmation bias prompts reviewers to give all sorts of magical qualities to expensive products that simply disappear in blind tests. Our auditory memories are very short (we can't accurately remember sound for more than a few seconds) and all humans are subject to confirmation bias.

    In my experience it's practically impossible to tell the output from an iPhone compared to a Dragonfly Red when driving IEMs. I would be very surprised if the same didn't also apply to the Cobalt.

    Just been reading up on IEMs and it appears the only difference between them and ear buds is that they are noise cancelling and go into the ear canal as opposed to sitting on the outer ear.

    Would that be correct?

    After watching john Darkos YT vid i went on Richer Sounds website where the Cobalt gets rave reviews. IMO Richer Sounds has a very good reputation when it comes to customer service and i would trust them with reviews they have on their site.

    I have bought loads of tech from them in the past and they are very informative with product info. In the rare case i had a problem they sorted it without any fuss.

    Again glad I asked on this forum for info, you all have been very helpful.

  • ashhashh

    @Sandstorm said:

    @richardyot said:
    Out of curiosity I watched that review:

    I would take everything he says with a large pinch of salt. He's using very easily driven IEMs and claiming that the difference between the output from his Cobalt is night and day better than the output from an iPhone or a Macbook. Personally I would never take this kind of review seriously, because these kinds of impressions simply aren't reliable.

    It's very similar to wine tasting: with sighted tasting even experts will prefer more expensive wine. In blind tastings they don't. In the world of audio confirmation bias prompts reviewers to give all sorts of magical qualities to expensive products that simply disappear in blind tests. Our auditory memories are very short (we can't accurately remember sound for more than a few seconds) and all humans are subject to confirmation bias.

    In my experience it's practically impossible to tell the output from an iPhone compared to a Dragonfly Red when driving IEMs. I would be very surprised if the same didn't also apply to the Cobalt.

    Just been reading up on IEMs and it appears the only difference between them and ear buds is that they are noise cancelling and go into the ear canal as opposed to sitting on the outer ear.

    Would that be correct?

    After watching john Darkos YT vid i went on Richer Sounds website where the Cobalt gets rave reviews. IMO Richer Sounds has a very good reputation when it comes to customer service and i would trust them with reviews they have on their site.

    I have bought loads of tech from them in the past and they are very informative with product info. In the rare case i had a problem they sorted it without any fuss.

    Again glad I asked on this forum for info, you all have been very helpful.

    You're welcome. If you're near a RS then you could take your phone in and try one in there. I like them too, their business model makes me smile.

  • SandstormSandstorm

    @ashh said:

    @Sandstorm said:

    @richardyot said:
    Out of curiosity I watched that review:

    I would take everything he says with a large pinch of salt. He's using very easily driven IEMs and claiming that the difference between the output from his Cobalt is night and day better than the output from an iPhone or a Macbook. Personally I would never take this kind of review seriously, because these kinds of impressions simply aren't reliable.

    It's very similar to wine tasting: with sighted tasting even experts will prefer more expensive wine. In blind tastings they don't. In the world of audio confirmation bias prompts reviewers to give all sorts of magical qualities to expensive products that simply disappear in blind tests. Our auditory memories are very short (we can't accurately remember sound for more than a few seconds) and all humans are subject to confirmation bias.

    In my experience it's practically impossible to tell the output from an iPhone compared to a Dragonfly Red when driving IEMs. I would be very surprised if the same didn't also apply to the Cobalt.

    Just been reading up on IEMs and it appears the only difference between them and ear buds is that they are noise cancelling and go into the ear canal as opposed to sitting on the outer ear.

    Would that be correct?

    After watching john Darkos YT vid i went on Richer Sounds website where the Cobalt gets rave reviews. IMO Richer Sounds has a very good reputation when it comes to customer service and i would trust them with reviews they have on their site.

    I have bought loads of tech from them in the past and they are very informative with product info. In the rare case i had a problem they sorted it without any fuss.

    Again glad I asked on this forum for info, you all have been very helpful.

    You're welcome. If you're near a RS then you could take your phone in and try one in there. I like them too, their business model makes me smile.

    I never thought of that! Good idea might go into the Brighton store and see what advice they can give me. Cheers.

  • richardyotrichardyot

    @Sandstorm said:

    @ashh said:

    @Sandstorm said:

    @richardyot said:
    Out of curiosity I watched that review:

    I would take everything he says with a large pinch of salt. He's using very easily driven IEMs and claiming that the difference between the output from his Cobalt is night and day better than the output from an iPhone or a Macbook. Personally I would never take this kind of review seriously, because these kinds of impressions simply aren't reliable.

    It's very similar to wine tasting: with sighted tasting even experts will prefer more expensive wine. In blind tastings they don't. In the world of audio confirmation bias prompts reviewers to give all sorts of magical qualities to expensive products that simply disappear in blind tests. Our auditory memories are very short (we can't accurately remember sound for more than a few seconds) and all humans are subject to confirmation bias.

    In my experience it's practically impossible to tell the output from an iPhone compared to a Dragonfly Red when driving IEMs. I would be very surprised if the same didn't also apply to the Cobalt.

    Just been reading up on IEMs and it appears the only difference between them and ear buds is that they are noise cancelling and go into the ear canal as opposed to sitting on the outer ear.

    Would that be correct?

    After watching john Darkos YT vid i went on Richer Sounds website where the Cobalt gets rave reviews. IMO Richer Sounds has a very good reputation when it comes to customer service and i would trust them with reviews they have on their site.

    I have bought loads of tech from them in the past and they are very informative with product info. In the rare case i had a problem they sorted it without any fuss.

    Again glad I asked on this forum for info, you all have been very helpful.

    You're welcome. If you're near a RS then you could take your phone in and try one in there. I like them too, their business model makes me smile.

    I never thought of that! Good idea might go into the Brighton store and see what advice they can give me. Cheers.

    It’s definitely a good idea to try and audition any gear you plan to buy before dropping a chunk of money on it, then at least you get a chance to hear it for yourself.

  • richardyotrichardyot

    @ashh said:
    IMO DACs for phones are simply a place to plug your wired phones into. Anything else is a bonus that may or may not apply to your set up. Especially since Apple DACs have blown all the 'cheaper' end away.

    One major benefit of having a USB DAC as an iOS musician is that they let you control the sample rate, which the Apple dongles don't. So in that sense having a Dragonfly is really useful. That's actually the main reason I've kept both of mine.

  • SandstormSandstorm

    @richardyot said:

    @Sandstorm said:

    @ashh said:

    @Sandstorm said:

    @richardyot said:
    Out of curiosity I watched that review:

    I would take everything he says with a large pinch of salt. He's using very easily driven IEMs and claiming that the difference between the output from his Cobalt is night and day better than the output from an iPhone or a Macbook. Personally I would never take this kind of review seriously, because these kinds of impressions simply aren't reliable.

    It's very similar to wine tasting: with sighted tasting even experts will prefer more expensive wine. In blind tastings they don't. In the world of audio confirmation bias prompts reviewers to give all sorts of magical qualities to expensive products that simply disappear in blind tests. Our auditory memories are very short (we can't accurately remember sound for more than a few seconds) and all humans are subject to confirmation bias.

    In my experience it's practically impossible to tell the output from an iPhone compared to a Dragonfly Red when driving IEMs. I would be very surprised if the same didn't also apply to the Cobalt.

    Just been reading up on IEMs and it appears the only difference between them and ear buds is that they are noise cancelling and go into the ear canal as opposed to sitting on the outer ear.

    Would that be correct?

    After watching john Darkos YT vid i went on Richer Sounds website where the Cobalt gets rave reviews. IMO Richer Sounds has a very good reputation when it comes to customer service and i would trust them with reviews they have on their site.

    I have bought loads of tech from them in the past and they are very informative with product info. In the rare case i had a problem they sorted it without any fuss.

    Again glad I asked on this forum for info, you all have been very helpful.

    You're welcome. If you're near a RS then you could take your phone in and try one in there. I like them too, their business model makes me smile.

    I never thought of that! Good idea might go into the Brighton store and see what advice they can give me. Cheers.

    It’s definitely a good idea to try and audition any gear you plan to buy before dropping a chunk of money on it, then at least you get a chance to hear it for yourself.

    Apart from richer sounds, can you recommend any other decent hifi shops?

    Don't say currys! 🤣👍

  • timforsythtimforsyth

    Apart from richer sounds, can you recommend any other decent hifi shops?

    Don't say currys! 🤣👍

    Sevenoaks used to be pretty good although they seemed to be targeting the mid to high end of the market. I'm not sure how many stores are left since the pandemic, our Southampton shop closed a few years ago.

    Depending on where you are there are probably some independents left.

  • Durwin99Durwin99

    @richardyot said:

    As a subjective opinion if you are looking for a “fun” pair of headphones I would recommend the Sennheiser HD 25 Pros (the ones with the split headband). They’re the most fun headphones I’ve heard, with a great punchy bass. The DT770 is more mellow in comparison.

    Agreed. I have a 10-year old pair of the Sennheiser HD25-1 mkII headphones and hands down, I've not heard "better" yet. I also have HD598 open-back, AT ATH-M50x and some Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 in-ears and have tried various models in shops etc. The HD25s are really punchy, nice and clear sounding and seem quite efficient because they go louder than the rest (low impedance?). I didn't realise they still make them :) mine on occasion lose the left ear but I can probably take them apart to check. Love them for late-night listening to all genres, esp metal and I'd never go travelling without them.

    I also have a Dragonfly Red which I bought to improve the audio on my old iPhone 6s. My experience there was the DF was significantly better than the built-in headphone jack using the HD25s (cleaner sound and much louder without distorting) but made almost zero difference with the UE super.fi 5 in-ears... I now have an iPhone 12 so only use the DF Red for serious wired listening, otherwise the Bluetooth ATH-M50x which sound good if a little quiet - I've never tried the Apple dongle.

  • TarekithTarekith
    edited November 2021

    FWIW I too thought there was a very noticeable different between the stock headphone jack on my MBP and the Cobalt when switching between the two. Like the video I was using some sensitive IEMs, my SE846s use balanced armature drivers and are only 9 ohms. It was this large difference in sound quality that led me look more closely at the specs of the Cobalt to see what is going on.

    Based on tests I’ve seen on the Cobalt, I think it’s partly the IEMs being very sensitive to the increased output (IE even a little bit louder can sound “better”). Also the output is not the cleanest on the Cobalt, and something similar to how a little bit of saturation in mastering can make things sound more present is going on. And the fact the tend to default to 96k means there’s some sample rate conversion happening which also might be introducing some distortion.

    When comparing the Cobalt and the stock MBP output using higher impedance headphones like Focal Spirit Pros or HD25’s, I did not notice as much of a difference leading me to believe the headphone impedance has a lot to do with it.

  • SandstormSandstorm

    @Tarekith said:
    FWIW I too thought there was a very noticeable different between the stock headphone jack on my MBP and the Cobalt when switching between the two. Like the video I was using some sensitive IEMs, my SE846s use balanced armature drivers and are only 9 ohms. It was this large difference in sound quality that led me look more closely at the specs of the Cobalt to see what is going on.

    Based on tests I’ve seen on the Cobalt, I think it’s partly the IEMs being very sensitive to the increased output (IE even a little bit louder can sound “better”). Also the output is not the cleanest on the Cobalt, and something similar to how a little bit of saturation in mastering can make things sound more present is going on. And the fact the tend to default to 96k means there’s some sample rate conversion happening which also might be introducing some distortion.

    When comparing the Cobalt and the stock MBP output using higher impedance headphones like Focal Spirit Pros or HD25’s, I did not notice as much of a difference leading me to believe the headphone impedance has a lot to do with it.

    MBP....MacBook Pro?

    Why are headphones of different impedence? My DT770 pros are 250 ohms but notice some headphones have far lower impedence.

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