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Audio Timbre Shaping
Hi,
I run my violin through my iPad.
I want a plugin that "shapes" or maybe even almost "morphs".... the audio TONE or SOUND in real time
I want more than just fx like reverb, filters and distortion
There are some "seemingly" aps like this for beats; but I want something more for audio input.
Open 2 Ideas
AJ
Comments
there are a couple of options.
For violin Rymdigare will be wonderfull. Check Jacob Haq's video about it ;-)
Also Thumbjam has a monophonic audio to midi converter and the most wonderfull samples.
Sugarbytes Turnado has the most strange effects to choose from, eight together...
And it has a dictator.
A blueboard with two expression pedals would complete your setup.
With the blueboard the m-audio ex-p pedals works the best.
@Vmusic It would help a lot if you could be a bit more specific about what kind of sounds you're looking for. Audio or video examples please 😊
Thanks.....Do you know of a ring modulator app?
I searched the compatible apps, and didn't see one listed.
Roxsyn from Yonac would be really cool.
https://www.yonac.com/roxsyn/
+1 on Roxsyn
There is an app that covers basically everything mentioned here: Drambo. Works standalone as well as in n AUv3 host. Ring mod, frequency shifting, pitch shifting, filterbank, pitch detection controlling oscillators etc etc...
+1. I'm having trouble imagining what you're after. There are zillions of ways to mangle sounds.
Definitely cool .... but I've never used it on anything but percussive sounds like guitar. I've never tried it on more legato sounds like a violin. I guess it would still work alright?
—> HI <—
First THANK YOU for all the suggestions.
additional clarification
to Mimic other instruments - one thing I need to alter PART of the sound but not all of the note played; for example to mimic a flute I need to replace just the first 50ms of the input to have an air sound rather than the bow scratch sound. To mimic a trumpet I need a slight distortion just at beginning of the sound; not throughout the entire length of a note
….or……..I might want an effect to start after 30ms of the note
Any guitar synth I’ve seen doesn’t let you set the “duration” of the effect …..or let you set a “lag” time, or start time for the effect based on the input. Even those with an Attack Sustain Delay Release ::: I don’t think these synths let you say - just apply the effect at THIS PART of the ASDR?
Phil …… Thank you. I will try out the Ring Modulator.
One thing I want is to be able to apply the effects at different parts, or places in the note; perhaps apply the effect at the first 50ms of the note; or apply the effect after the ‘attack’ but only during the ‘sustain’ part of the note.
These effects seem “all of none”……………….. which makes me think (that gets me into trouble)……
I wonder if there was some “analyzer” app (AU) that would example the audio input of the violin note and determine the ASDR parts?? THEN…. just trigger other fx on/off based on the change in ASDR
I doubt any such thing exists
@Vmusic Maybe incorporate FAC Envolver into the chain which is an envelop follower.
The AUv3 plugin can output a CC following the volume contour, or even output a trigger note as long as the threshold is met. Such a note could then trigger an CC-ADSR (maybe using one of the available Mozaic scripts) and the CC of the ADSR could drive the mix of the FX. In that way, you could distort just the start of a violin note or the sustain part. It won‘t react to legato play as the volume won‘t get lower as the threshold inbetween notes.
Would maybe an expression pedal help you to shape and control the attack or the amount of the effects? Sorry for the obvious suggestion..
But ... you'd have an unworkable delay then. An envelope couldn't be calculated until the sound had completed and only after that work on the output. Such a thing could work for post-processing, but not for live playing.
As @_ki mentioned, FAC Envolver comes the closest. You would just need to figure out routing to FX parameters and how to use the CC's to achieve what you want.
Everything I've read so far points to the need for modular apps and a lot of ingenuity on your part to wire things together. Everything you've said is doable in miRack for sure. The learning curve is steep though. Drambo is suitable as well.
I don't know of any out of the box app for the range of things you want to do. You can have a heck of a lot of fun and learn a lot by diving into modular.
I'd be up to a few experiments. Could you please pm me a few audio snippets played on your violin so I can try a few tricks?
It's definitely not an easy task because detecting violin attack sounds reliably will be a challenge for sure.
MixBox CS has 70 studio quality effects that can be arranged in any order. Some of the Guitar Amp Sims
might also be good candidates to get creative. Isn't MixBox on sale?
Once you pick one or two we can share ideas and examples using AU parameters, MIDi CC's and such.
Look for Youtube videos featuring players like Robert Fripp. Having said that... check out the @Brambos "Gauss Field Looper" app. Make custom rigs inside AUM and go crazy with all these AUv3 and IAA recommendations. The MIDI control features are amazing and can driven with MIDI pedals.
Drambo. It has lots of modules including an envelope follower.
you have an interesting approach in live sound design, I like it very much. To introduce a certain effect only for a portion of the sound … very clever.
Well, as suggested by @rs2000, Drambo is ideal for this. It not only has the needed effects built in, it can also fade those effects in an out with the help of envelopes and delays, as you already were contemplating.
Personally I haven’t dedicated enough time for Drambo, but I will in the future. Another approach is miRack, with a graphical interface that is easier to understand. I would probably start with miRack, because I am familiar with hardware modular systems and wire salad.
Your concept inspires me to build such an effect patch in miRack and Drambo, but I can’t promise to get a result soon; it’s getting cold in the tipi, and I’m wearing gloves while typing this comment. But in December or January I’m back home where the conditions are more favorable. Maybe some Drambo/miRack wizard can help, or you figure it out by yourself.
Good luck.
also, there may be patch ideas to be found in the VCS3 scene. The VCS3 was often used by instrumentalists, because it has a microphone input. And in the general modular synthesis community, like the Modwiggler forum.
iLep was created for exactly this use case:
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/ilep/id1388225714
WOW…… iLep; uh…well….it looks you might need a degree in rocket science, or a batman decoder ring; or perhaps both
I will record some generic violin jams tomorrow.
My setup -> Acoustic fiddle with an LR Baggs pickup —> Xtone (audio interface with MIDI capabilities); I also run an expression pedal into the Xtone as well.
Good call. Just make sure you use a limiter on that thing. Could quickly destroy your audio equipment and your ears if played too loud.
Lol. Yeah, it is definitely a German app 🤣. However, it comes with a very comprehensive built-in tutorial:
My personal favorite effect that I did as an AU on the Mac (but haven't ported to iOS yet) was an envelope follower controlling a bunch of different modulation effects. The one I liked best for guitar was a simple tremolo where the depth of the trem was inverse controlled by the envelope. So, as the guitar signal faded in volume the speed and/or depth of the trem increased. It's a subtle but really cool effect on guitar. With a bowed instrument you could have much more dynamic control of the interaction -- could be really fun.
I think it would be pretty easy to do this type of effect in Drambo. Vibrato, phase shifter, flanger, and chorus are other good choices to try as the effect that's controlled.
FAC Transient could be a good fit here, this lets you fiddle with the attack and delay of your sound, if you routed your original signal to 2 channels and have Transient as an FX on both of those channels with different settings one for the attack phase one for the release.
For you trumpet add a distortion FX added on the just the Attack phase to get your trumpet like sound you want.
For your effect to start after 30 ms, ad that FX on just the release channel.
excellent idea. I love tremolo, but never thought about changing its speed. Thank you for the tip.
Signal dependent speed changes could also be done with delays, preferably tape and bucket brigade delays. Lots of nice effects to discover.
ATTENTION...............ATTENTION......................
Here's are 2 violin samples, recorded using AUM
1) Somewhat Celtic - I'd like the violin to sound like a flute (without MIDI). I can tell you the 'percussive' bowing used in Celtic music would throw a MIDI converter for a loop (pun intended)
2) Swingy/BeeBopy - I'd like the violin to sound like a trumpet. Some "air" and light distortion at the beginning of the note like a horn has, and maybe some EQ or timbre changes after the first 20 - 60ms
Here you go....... if you can alter the timbre - let me know what aps/plugins you use!! (and the end result)
Roxsyn seems to do the most radical Timber Shaping. It has complete controls but I just surfed through
Presets looking for something close to your intended targets:
Roxsyn - Leads II - Mindy Preset
Roxsyn - Leads II - Nagshead
McD.....wooooaAAAAaaahh ......
Imma luvin' the whistle one....it's plausible, very plausible. It could use some 'breathy' or 'air push' at the beginning or start of each note. Otherwise, the overall timbre isn't bad.
The trumpet one, uh....not so much. I have used effects processors (like the Ax Fx and others) to add subtle distortion to mimic the air push into the horn. This sounds something that - added distortion. The problem is after the note 'attack' the distortion isn't needed.
I do appreciate the effort here. Imma absolutely luvin' the whistle one
I put a lot more effort into selecting the "Whistle"... I couldn't get close to a true Flute sound using Presets. But, the fact that Roxsyn has so many presets, I suspect that there maybe additional adjustments that could be made to create something closer to that timbre.
There are good controls for ADRS'es so maybe a high distortion attach and then a brass like Sustain
would be more convincing.
I think Yonac doesn't use DSP on the input sound but they use the envelope to drive an internal synthesizer much like a "MIDI Guitar" does. But the latency maybe bad... using an audio file to create these responses is not the same as plugging in a live violin. So, that needs to be tested. I should plug in a guitar and see how much lag there is.
Anyway... For a low cost solution Roxsyn is a good place to start. Yonac also makes the ToneStack
Guitar Sim app (with a suite of FX IAP's) so they know how to do pedals and keep the latency reasonable.
It was fun trying... and the first 5 minutes we cabling up all my favorite EQ and Tone shaping apps like
"Attack Softner". Nothing really sounded like anything but a tweaked violin. Then I re-installed Roxsyn
and got closer to hiding the violin sound more.