Playing Guitar in AUM: Guideline for FX Order?

Montreal_Music

I often use a lot of effects in AUM when I play guitar. But I have a feeling that the order of the effects is random.

Should I put my Nembrini Guitar amp in first?
The reverb should go before the amp or after?

I often use reverb, delay, chorus, compression and guitar amp.

I'm not sure what is best.

Thank you.

SevenSystems

In the majority of cases, the technically correct order would be:

Compression -> Amp -> Chorus -> Delay -> Reverb

Any other order would yield less predictable / stable results (but may be interesting from an artistic point of view).

Particularly "Compression -> Amp" is important because the sound of the amp largely depends on the input level.

The Delay should come before the Reverb because you don't want "copies of the reverb".

The Chorus could conceivably also go between the Delay and the Reverb to make each echo differently "chorused".

espiegel123

@SevenSystems said:
In the majority of cases, the technically correct order would be:

Compression -> Amp -> Chorus -> Delay -> Reverb

Any other order would yield less predictable / stable results (but may be interesting from an artistic point of view).

Particularly "Compression -> Amp" is important because the sound of the amp largely depends on the input level.

The Delay should come before the Reverb because you don't want "copies of the reverb".

The Chorus could conceivably also go between the Delay and the Reverb to make each echo differently "chorused".

Where the compressor is concerned, it depends on what you are using the compressor for. There are legit uses for the compressor before the amp and after. One might put it after the amp, if one uses the touch/dynamics of one's playing to control the amount of distortion (going from clean to dirty via dynamics). In that case, you may not want the compressor in front since that reduces dynamics. But you might want to have it at the end of the chain in order to even out the volume without altering the tone.

mistercharlie

With a real amp, all your effects pedals go before the amp. If that amp has an FX loop, ypu might put things like chorus in the loop.

As a general guide, delay goes before distortion and dirt, unless you want to saturate that delay. Reverb comes at the end.

With AUM, and amp sim apps, you can put stuff after the speaker—you can’t do that with a real amp. Try the reverb after the speaker.

But really, do what sounds good. On a pedalboard, you have to unplug everything to test an idea. With AUM it’s way easier.

hellquist

All the above, with the additional reminder that you also can use multiple lanes/channel strips in AUM that can make it rather interesting too. Mixing the output of 2-3 amps. Sending to effects via a bus etc. Again, a lot easier in AUM than in a physical solution.

Also, it can be good to consider what/where you will record, in the chain. Do you wish to record with effects, or do you wish to record the guitar as "dry" as possible to have the option to "re-amp" afterwards/later? All those are things that can affect what you could/should do.

mojozart

Recording dry and effected is a good idea, I find, as it gives more options for mixing, fixing or re-amping later.

The effect chain order is a very interesting topic of much debate. I am currently reading two of Craig Anderton's new eBooks published by Sweetwater, and I think these both do a good job of discussing effect order in a DIY way, that is, in a way that encourages experimentation towards understanding, though the Helix book is obviously aimed at readers who own Helix hardware or software.

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/craig-anderton-on-his-incredible-recording-e-books/

I'm reading How to Record and Mix Great Guitar Tracks and The Big Book of Helix Tips and Tricks.

mistercharlie

One thing that's tricky to do with real pedals and amps is mixing the clean signal with the dirty signal. Your guitar goes through your fuzz, and that's it. But mixing a bit of the clean signal back in can be great. You get more articulation, but still get all the fuzz.

SevenSystems

@espiegel123 said:

@SevenSystems said:
In the majority of cases, the technically correct order would be:

Compression -> Amp -> Chorus -> Delay -> Reverb

Any other order would yield less predictable / stable results (but may be interesting from an artistic point of view).

Particularly "Compression -> Amp" is important because the sound of the amp largely depends on the input level.

The Delay should come before the Reverb because you don't want "copies of the reverb".

The Chorus could conceivably also go between the Delay and the Reverb to make each echo differently "chorused".

Where the compressor is concerned, it depends on what you are using the compressor for. There are legit uses for the compressor before the amp and after. One might put it after the amp, if one uses the touch/dynamics of one's playing to control the amount of distortion (going from clean to dirty via dynamics). In that case, you may not want the compressor in front since that reduces dynamics. But you might want to have it at the end of the chain in order to even out the volume without altering the tone.

I had thought about the "control distortion amount with playing style" thing too, makes sense... thanks for the correction, I guess you can notice I'm not a guitar player 😆 I guess I answered the question from a purely technical point of view 🖖

McD

In the physical world, many guitar players in live situations are usually 2 amps. Sometimes for stereo imaging if they tend to be mellow jazz types like Lee Ritenour who used 2 Fender Twin reverb from his massive pedal board that ended with dual outputs from a stereo reverb/delay FX unit.

A tone monster like Scott Henderson uses a clean amp for precise attacks and a distorted amp for his classic tones. Of course he travels and uses rented gear most often but when he’s near home he uses 2 amps. Pete Thorne I think was the innovator for this new way of using multi-amps in a live rig so the fast notes are present and the long notes have tone.

With amp we can experiment with similar change brigs mixing amp sim apps or 2 if the same app.

In TH-U for example there’s an A-B splitter module to dual amp in a config. Probably also in the other large apps like Amplitube.

However, Many guitarists are just plugging into an amp and letting it do it’s thing… like a loud overdriven Marshall for many rock stars.

The answers are in the ears of the player.

royor

@Montreal_Music

Rules? 🤷‍♂️ There are no rules.. plug ’em in any old way you wish.. especially using AUM.. you can’t break anything.. be aware of your levels though (perhaps a limiter on the master bus).. don’t want to break your ears.. use them to guide you to what sounds good to you.. discovering an incredible FX chain along the way, that you’ve never heard before..

Sure there are guidelines.. but I see that more for actual physical connections between guitar + pedals + amp.. this virtual scenario (on our iPads) should be a free-for-all.. the only limitation is your mind..

Experiment with FX busses.. keep your main guitar sound separate from some of the crazy FX you come up with + then blend them using bus sends.. that way it keeps the main sound from being washed away.. unless that is the sound you’re searching for.. 😁 or completely kill the main sound + listen to only the FX.. really, anything goes.. Enjoy the journey..

Tones4Christ

I have mine setup like this:

Pedal board setup:

Compressor,Pitch Shitfers, Octavers >Distortions, Overdrives, >Volume Pedal>Chorus, Delays, reverb> to Amp

This sounds amazing playing live!

But in AUM, I’m doing the same setup but in THU Overloud.

The Compressor helps with sustain and making the signal more stable going into the pitch shifters etc. of course nothing ever beats your ears! If it sounds great then that’s it! ❤️🙏👍🏼🎸

Poppadocrock

@Montreal_Music said:
I often use a lot of effects in AUM when I play guitar. But I have a feeling that the order of the effects is random.

Should I put my Nembrini Guitar amp in first?
The reverb should go before the amp or after?

I often use reverb, delay, chorus, compression and guitar amp.

I'm not sure what is best.

Thank you.

There’s a ton of infographics on Google images if you search guitar fx chain. This will give you standard setups and ideas.

Here’s a couple

ambrosiajam

I recommend having a completely separate channel bus for distortion, modulation, delay, and reverb - all with 100% mix, and then have all those channels bussed back to a master channel with some parallel compression to glue it all together then use the faders to blend the effects how you want.

I usually go gate/compression -> distortion/saturation -> modulation (sometimes I put this before the distortion) -> delay -> reverb -> master channel

Occasionally I will have stuff after the reverb, like sent to another distortion or sent to another gate to shape the reverb tail even more

ambrosiajam

Granted in this example I’m using it with korg module lol but the basic concept is the same. Then I adjust the bus sends with different midi presets that I save into AUM so I can just keep everything on the same AUM session. Sometimes I also use THU, nembrini, or tonestack for amp modeling but most of the time this gets the job done cuz I have a direct line out from my guitar amp and occasionally I even run this process after my actual physical pedalboard haha

ambrosiajam

This method also good for if you wanna record multitracks of the same part in case you wanna adjust the effect channels later or pan them /master them / use them separately / etc

tahiche

@McD said:
In the physical world, many guitar players in live situations are usually 2 amps. Sometimes for stereo imaging if they tend to be mellow jazz types like Lee Ritenour who used 2 Fender Twin reverb from his massive pedal board that ended with dual outputs from a stereo reverb/delay FX unit.

A tone monster like Scott Henderson uses a clean amp for precise attacks and a distorted amp for his classic tones. Of course he travels and uses rented gear most often but when he’s near home he uses 2 amps. Pete Thorne I think was the innovator for this new way of using multi-amps in a live rig so the fast notes are present and the long notes have tone.

With amp we can experiment with similar change brigs mixing amp sim apps or 2 if the same app.

In TH-U for example there’s an A-B splitter module to dual amp in a config. Probably also in the other large apps like Amplitube.

However, Many guitarists are just plugging into an amp and letting it do it’s thing… like a loud overdriven Marshall for many rock stars.

The answers are in the ears of the player.

My “extremely poor-man’s version” of this 2 amp technique was a 100€ Harley Benton amp I had hooked up to the stereo delay pedal. The tiny extra amp only kicked in when I had delay going, but it added a cool and different dimension. Sort of ping pong thingy that widened the sound.

tahiche

@ambrosiajam said:
Granted in this example I’m using it with korg module lol but the basic concept is the same. Then I adjust the bus sends with different midi presets that I save into AUM so I can just keep everything on the same AUM session. Sometimes I also use THU, nembrini, or tonestack for amp modeling but most of the time this gets the job done cuz I have a direct line out from my guitar amp and occasionally I even run this process after my actual physical pedalboard haha

This is interesting 🤔
So you’re sending in sort of a “cascade” manner?. For example you’re sending the “dry”, “distorted “ and “mod” buses to reverb and delay…. So 3 versions of the same instrument… Don’t know why you do it, but I’m gonna try that, sounds promising!.

Ailerom

This is me - wah, compression, eq, distortion/overdrive, gate, amp, modulation, delay reverb.

My general preference is tone shaping before the amp and spacial shaping after. That said I have had some fun pushing a reverb or delay into an amp. Fun but for me not something I'd ever use. And the more overdriven/distorted the less I like it. But yes, no rules.

ambrosiajam

In case I want to bypass one. They’re never all on 100% at once. I blend them appropriately. I don’t know if the levels in this screenshot mean anything in particular, I pulled an old project just to screenshot it for here. > @tahiche said:

@ambrosiajam said:
Granted in this example I’m using it with korg module lol but the basic concept is the same. Then I adjust the bus sends with different midi presets that I save into AUM so I can just keep everything on the same AUM session. Sometimes I also use THU, nembrini, or tonestack for amp modeling but most of the time this gets the job done cuz I have a direct line out from my guitar amp and occasionally I even run this process after my actual physical pedalboard haha

This is interesting 🤔
So you’re sending in sort of a “cascade” manner?. For example you’re sending the “dry”, “distorted “ and “mod” buses to reverb and delay…. So 3 versions of the same instrument… Don’t know why you do it, but I’m gonna try that, sounds promising!.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

The great thing about AUM is that you can have multiple fx channels, with sends from one to another, and be modulating channel vol and pan as well as modulating the fx apps. This thing of ours goes waaaay behind single channel linear stomp box ordering!

raabje

Delay with high gain, I think general consensus is, the delay after the pre-amp, or after a high gain pedal into a clean amp.

And reverb could be placed in front of the amp, in the EFX loop, after the amp, or after the speaker, for different results.

But I agree, there are no rules.