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Comments
That was an excellent post @Lady_App_titude.
+1
I had a strong positive reaction to your statement supporting Miles and Bird as being
the moment jazz got serious.
With Miles and Bird people stopped dancing and would sit an take in the music
on a serious level with the wonderful addition of positive feedback for excellent solos by
clapping respectfully for talent. These two were the high priests of a new musical art form.
Fusion was a reaction to try and recapture the concert aesthetics of the dance venues tho' most venue would sell tickets that turned the place into a giant mob standing around the stage but you could move to the music.
I think the intent of Miles and Bird was to get African American art elevated as a serious art form and they certainly achieved that goal and have that pivotal place in jazz history: Bird for Bebop technical mastery of improvised linear lines and Miles use of tension/release and the addition of modal composition. Very different paths that defined much of the music that followed. Miles greatest achievements for me was his ability to recognize talent and create ground breaking bands. Being the greatest musician of his era after Bird's untimely death he attracted the most serious and ambitious musicians of the day. The list of musicians that played with Miles becomes the most important musicians of the next 20 years, IMHO. Many defined innovative offshoots of Miles artistic innovations like Weather Report, the Mahavishnu Orchestra, Chick Corea's various band types and Herbie Hancocks career as a band leader.
Most the greats have been named I’ll try to add a couple I haven’t seen and maybe not exactly jazz but the stuff Digable Planets and D’Angelo were doing was incredible and an interesting take on the evolution of the music. And I can’t resist adding Miles cos I listen to him a lot and he’s a hometown guy so he gets extra love from me.
From the classics, and still alive, William Parker is my absolute favorite. He is also one of the organizers of the Vision Festival.
And played in the Ornette Coleman band, being a free jazz activist, in a time in which jazz was also a political statement.
https://youtu.be/OnD5I6y4vMU
And while much more eclectic, Angel Bat Dawid has an understanding of the essence of the spiritual jazz, considered as a state of trance related to spirituality, that only a few contemporary musicians have achieved in such a brilliant way.
https://youtu.be/hiaVJp1ZISs
Another one on the more extreme side, but I love Machine Gun by Peter Brötzmann. Also love his work with Last Exit.
Glad to see some less traditional choices here. My personal fave is Kind of Blue, what a perfect album. But I love what people like Sons of Kemet and Makaya McCraven are doing. Makaya is a drummer / producer who recently got access to the whole Blue Note back catalogue for his 'Deciphering the Message' album. Nils Petter Molvaer is also great. Jakob Bro's Uma Elmo is another recent fave. I also love
Alberto Iglesias's soundtrack for Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy.
Bill Evans is one of my faves. So prolific, but for something different, i really like his album Symbiosis - the first track in particular.
There's a whole bunch of great new jazz musicians coming out of the London scene who have been influenced by electronic and Caribbean music.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/nov/08/the-beat-goes-on-the-new-british-jazz-messengers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Oh - and let's not forget Charles Mingus 'The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady'.
I wanted to see if anyone mentioned my teacher, Connie Crothers…. Or Lennie Tristano. I won’t go into the politics of jazz… especially where Lennie was concerned. But when I think of my own obscurity (partially self induced), it is cold comfort to know many, much greater than myself, never come to an audience boiling point.
Connie was an explosive, forward driving improviser. Only later in life did she accept and truly value her role as teacher to hundreds of up and coming musicians. She certainly helped me transform a stuttering incompleteness into something that sort of makes sense in an original way. In the end she was onstage with Max Roach and lecturing at Juilliard. She was an invisible giant in our midst. Here is an early example of her art. I leave it to those who are interested to discover the genius of Lennie Tristano.
I question the idea that this is necessarily an advancement in the development of the music. One could also argue that it’s the first step towards the museum-curator approach of Wynton and the Kennedy Center jazz elites, who want to freeze the music’s development during its supposed "golden age" and deny legitimacy to anyone who dares think more expansively about what jazz is or could be.
You know, I agree that something happened when Bird, Coltrane and Miles came on their respective scenes. But I don’t get that one great scene has more importance than other great scenes. I think all would agree that there would be no Bird without greats like Armstrong and Coleman Hawkins. No Ornette Coleman without a Coltrane before him. That's just the evolution of artistry.
Yes, it’s fun to discuss this stuff. But whether you pigeonhole someone as groundbreaking or soup du jour it is still pigeonholing. It takes the focus off the continuum. The long arc of jazz evolution. Denoting this one or that one as the gamechanger is like saying one game changing app was greater than another. Game changing is game changing. And you can only change the game in the context of what is happening at a particular moment in time.
Along with all this prognostication comes the inevitable blind spots. For example, the contributions native Americans made to the history of jazz. Not many know that in the New Orleans jazz parades of the early 20th century almost as many Native Americans participated as African Americans. My teacher, Connie Crothers, posited that Native Americans made a substantial contribution to the rhythm of jazz. Unfortunately, I can’t remember the details. But if she was emphatic about it I have to give it credence.
Again, it’s fun to talk about it, but these opinions can be just as misleading as they are informative.
For a newcomer, I believe, all the greats should be presented without such distinctions. Let the listener decide their place in his/her listening library,
Well, we can agree that talking about jazz is similar to the blind man experiencing the elephant for the first time. It's a large complex animal that I hope never goes extinct.
It's best experienced in the wild but recordings can bring it right into your world.
Well said 🎺
That's very interesting about the native Americans. Definitely something that is missing in the mainstream history of jazz, if your / Connie's version has some truth to it. Any evidence?
@Gavinski…. These articles below point at it. Bird’s mom and thus, Bird, Oscar Pettiford, Miles Davis, Don Pullen and many more sported Native American dna. Four to the bar in blues is attributable to Native American rhythm and a lot more. Far too neglected. It can really make you hate the white man’s co-opting of history.
https://etd.ohiolink.edu/apexprod/rws_olink/r/1501/10?clear=10&p10_accession_num=bgsu1244856703
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/11/10/1898278/-Why-Weren-t-Native-Americans-Credited-for-Being-Part-of-Forming-Blues-Jazz-and-R-R
https://tankabar.com/blogs/blog/exploring-native-american-influence-on-the-blues
Card carrying member of the Church of Miles here. Tend to prefer his electric and modal periods. Though it's all good. Actually listen to Aura more than any other late period pieces, at least recently. Big fan of Don Cherry, especially his post Free Jazz time in Europe, where he was stripping down things to 'The Sound'. Multi-Kulti is a masterpiece! My favorite pianist is Randy Weston. Was still playing into his 80s. Lots of small ensemble work, and far too few large band albums. I prefer Branford to Wynton. I like a number of the fusion branches, and Laswell's world collusion pieces.
On the tradition front, Bebop was definitely a watershed moment. Interestingly, the Brazilian music scene split with jazz over the move away from melody then.
Oh, also on the older tradition side, there's an old Michael Ventura article tieing jazz and rock tradition to Vodoun (through New Orleans).
https://michaelventura.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/HEAR-THAT-LONG-SNAKE-MOAN.pdf
I kind of align with this response to jazz
Interesting, thanks Michael. This also reminds me of the argument in The Dawn of Everything by Graeber that Native American thought heavily influenced the Western Enlightenment. Fantastic book, you would really enjoy it if you haven't come across it yet.
Coltrane Quartet
Miles Quintet (Hancock, Shorter, Williams, Carter)
Brian Blade & Fellowship Band
Frisell
Metheny
and some locals from my country (Chile)
Tried for quite a while to think of a short list, so going to just put it out there as a brain dump and leave it.
Miles Davis
Bird
Dizzy Gillespie
Billie Holiday
Trane
Ornette Coleman
John Zorn / Naked City
Peter Brötzmann / Last Exit
Monk
Django Reinhardt
Eric Dolphy
John McLaughlin / Mahavishnu Orchestra
Herbie Hancock
Colosseum II
Jaco Pastorius
Etc.
Can't believe I left this guy out. I forgot to list my favorite (still living) jazz trumpeter - Doc Severinsen. I have transcribed many of his jazz solos to study/learn them. Amazing player. Dude can play it all really, but his jazz solos really tickle my ear.
Return to Forever
Mahavishnu Orchestra
Joe pass
Al di meola
Me and the wife caught Al di meloa in Cincinnati back in sept. Still amazing on guitar, I can only hope to be able to play like that at his age
Instead of repeating the usual well known names many of you already quoted, I’ll try to suggest you some contemporary guys who could have slept under your radars. They are all well established musicians (probably between the best in the world), but being Europeans maybe their names didn’t get till the big land of ALL jazz musicians (USA). I’ll add a couple of links to all of them (a short clip to watch fast and a longer concert for the ones who like some of them and want to spend a little more time discovering their music). Up to you if you want to watch them:
Paolo Fresu
Stefano Bollani
Enrico Rava
Erik Truffaz
…and if you want something more experimental, I add a Swiss group, just to promote a little bit my country
Hildegard Lernt Fliegen
If you like them all, here is a concert with many of them (the Italians) playing together:
@Gavinski @McD… the best evidence so far that Native Americans are at the roots of jazz. Moo dog’s statement that his experience drumming with Native Americans as child convinced him swing was influenced by their rhythms…