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Koala samples in AUM pitched down in AUM

ljhollandljholland
in General App Discussion

I have samples that sound correct when opened in the stand-alone Koala app. However, when I open the same files in the AUV3 in AUM, they are slightly pitched down.
Ideas??

Comments

  • BiancaNeveBiancaNeve

    Something to do with sample rates?

  • Paulo164Paulo164

    Classic. They are recorded in 48 kHz and played back in AUM at 44.1 kHz.

  • ljhollandljholland

    Got it! I found that I can turn off the option snap the pitch to semi-tones. Bumping up the pitch by 1.58 seemed to be about right.

    Thanks!

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @ljholland said:
    Got it! I found that I can turn off the option snap the pitch to semi-tones. Bumping up the pitch by 1.58 seemed to be about right.

    Thanks!

    You could also change the sample rate in AUM to match your samples’ sample rate.

  • uncledaveuncledave

    @ljholland said:
    Got it! I found that I can turn off the option snap the pitch to semi-tones. Bumping up the pitch by 1.58 seemed to be about right.

    Thanks!

    The exact correction for 44.1 vs 48 kHz is 146.707 cents. Not sure if you can use that.

  • ljhollandljholland

    I'm sure that's accurate. My tin ears can barely tell the difference

  • pedropedro

    Noob question: what’s the point of 48k? I get it with bit depth like 24bit cause you get more dynamic range, and so a lower noise floor. But for sample rate, does it matter? Is it because of aliasing? In what scenario does it matter?

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @pedro said:
    Noob question: what’s the point of 48k? I get it with bit depth like 24bit cause you get more dynamic range, and so a lower noise floor. But for sample rate, does it matter? Is it because of aliasing? In what scenario does it matter?

    Many iOS devices natively use 48k (i was surprised to find out from a n iOS programmer that even some devices like the iPad 6 that default to 44.1k are actually 48k hardware doing sample rate conversion to 44.1k in software.

  • pedropedro

    @espiegel123 oh yes, of course, I see. My air2 doesn’t, so I’m not ready to play in the big boys league yet.

  • wimwim
    edited February 2022

    I don't have any opinion whatsoever on the correctness of this, and if I'm honest, can't imagine it making any difference that I can hear with my abused, old, ears unless it results in pitch problems. But this article is summed up pretty well by this paragraph:

    Recommended Sample Rates
    Since our hearing is only capable of 20 kHz, can’t we just stick to a sample rate of 44.1 kHz? We just learned that sample rates above 44.1 kHz may sound better simply because the analog filter design in the A-D converter has less impact in the audible range. In other words, 44.1 kHz captures all the audio bandwidth humans can hear, but the low pass filter may adversely affect audio below 20 kHz. For this and other reasons, it is recommended that we produce and mix pop music at 48 kHz. First, 48 kHz allows for better sounding anti-aliasing filters than 44.1. Second, 48 kHz uses only slightly more disk space than 44.1. Third, videos usually require 48 kHz audio and much of our audio will be embedded in a YouTube or other video as part of distribution. If you produce music solely for audio CDs, then 44.1 kHz would be the recommended way to go.

    To me it's just an annoyance that I wish like hell wasn't a concern on iOS. Nevertheless, conversion issues continue to crop up. So, I try to stick with 48K wherever I can since some devices are locked to that. (Interestingly, iDAM is locked to 44.1K, I believe.)

  • TelefunkyTelefunky
    edited February 2022

    @uncledave said:

    @ljholland said:
    Got it! I found that I can turn off the option snap the pitch to semi-tones. Bumping up the pitch by 1.58 seemed to be about right.

    Thanks!

    The exact correction for 44.1 vs 48 kHz is 146.707 cents. Not sure if you can use that.

    You mentioned it in another thread, correcting a false assumption by me.
    I really should have known because this number has been right in front of my eyes... in big green LCD numbers. :o
    It‘s the pitch factor used on Adat remote controllers to switch from (default) 48khz to 44.1khz and such a thing sits on my table. When pressing the decrement key after -146 the display flips to 44.1 and continues with -148, -149 etc on further presses. o:)

    Could it be that starting from 44.1khz as original sampling rate the upward factor is different and closer to 100 cent ?
    (this just entered my mind)

  • pedropedro

    @wim very informative, thanks for the link. It could only make sense from an anti aliasing perspective, and I guess the marginal increase in disk space is worth it for the added “dog whistle” effect. Not that it matters the slightest for bedroom producers like me, but it makes sense as a standard, and I guess that’s why apple chose to default to that

  • wimwim
    edited February 2022

    @pedro said:
    @wim very informative, thanks for the link. It could only make sense from an anti aliasing perspective, and I guess the marginal increase in disk space is worth it for the added “dog whistle” effect. Not that it matters the slightest for bedroom producers like me, but it makes sense as a standard, and I guess that’s why apple chose to default to that

    I think the most salient point is about music destined for video vs. destined for CDs. (Do those even exist anymore??)

  • uncledaveuncledave

    @Telefunky said:

    @uncledave said:

    @ljholland said:
    Got it! I found that I can turn off the option snap the pitch to semi-tones. Bumping up the pitch by 1.58 seemed to be about right.

    Thanks!

    The exact correction for 44.1 vs 48 kHz is 146.707 cents. Not sure if you can use that.

    You mentioned it in another thread, correcting a false assumption by me.
    I really should have known because this number has been right in front of my eyes... in big green LCD numbers. :o
    It‘s the pitch factor used on Adat remote controllers to switch from (default) 48khz to 44.1khz and such a thing sits on my table. When pressing the decrement key after -146 the display flips to 44.1 and continues with -148, -149 etc on further presses. o:)

    Could it be that starting from 44.1khz as original sampling rate the upward factor is different and closer to 100 cent ?
    (this just entered my mind)

    No. Because it's a log of a ratio, inverting the ratio only changes the sign.

  • TelefunkyTelefunky
    edited February 2022

    Thanks, then they must have used some other method with that Logic instrument... o:)

  • MadGavMadGav

    @pedro said:
    Noob question: what’s the point of 48k? I get it with bit depth like 24bit cause you get more dynamic range, and so a lower noise floor. But for sample rate, does it matter? Is it because of aliasing? In what scenario does it matter?

    I’m reality there’s not a lot of difference between 44.1k and 48k. Historically different types of device used different rates: CD 44.1k (so this would be a music default), everything else but TV in particular 48k (so music for film would want this). IIRC DAT, what we used for digital mix downs back in the day, was originally 48k but most recorders ended up with a 44.1k option. In any case using high quality sample rate conversion at the mastering stage it’s unlikely to cause any audible artefacts.

  • MadGavMadGav

    @MadGav said:

    @pedro said:
    Noob question: what’s the point of 48k? I get it with bit depth like 24bit cause you get more dynamic range, and so a lower noise floor. But for sample rate, does it matter? Is it because of aliasing? In what scenario does it matter?

    I’m reality there’s not a lot of difference between 44.1k and 48k. Historically different types of device used different rates: CD 44.1k (so this would be a music default), everything else but TV in particular 48k (so music for film would want this). IIRC DAT, what we used for digital mix downs back in the day, was originally 48k but most recorders ended up with a 44.1k option. In any case using high quality sample rate conversion at the mastering stage it’s unlikely to cause any audible artefacts.

    Edit: FWIW I use 48k primarily to match iPad native so I can work without my audio interface connected. But also it’s a (marginally) better match for conversion to m4a/mp3 for download services iirc. As said above, differences are marginal - I could certainly point you to respected engineers saying not to use “high” sample rate like 96k.

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