iCloud App Backup - What Exactly is it Backing Up?

Cambler

Hi Gang

I use the 50gb iCloud tier for my iPad and iPhone backup but it keeps hitting the wall, unnecessarily in my opinion. I have most of my music apps selected to be backed up but some, such as Beathawk and Nanostudio are 5+ gigs each. I can only assume this is due to the backups including sound libraries and samples? If I look at iCloud on my MacBook I do not see a Beathawk folder so I assume this means that projects are not also backed up under this scenario? Will I lose anything if I switch backup up for those apps?

Sorry for the possibly newbie questions

tahiche

Are you using iCloud to backup your iPad?. In that case iCloud is really duplicating backups. Here’s a screen shot…

“iCloud backup” on top will backup your whole iPad. It’s a confusing name, which is coherent with the whole apple backup thing and file management. IMO it’s a mess.
Then, at the bottom of the screen, you have individual app backups. So if you’re not backing up Beathawk samples and stuff, it will still be backed up under the top mentioned “iPad state” (iCloud backup).
So it’s indeed duplicating backups and taking up space. The same sample will be saved twice.
If things were done “right” you’d be able to access individual portions from the iPad backup, and have a single backup. But it’s not the case. iPad backup is all or nothing. So you need to buy more iCloud space 💶💶💵

Cambler

@tahiche said:
Are you using iCloud to backup your iPad?. In that case iCloud is really duplicating backups. Here’s a screen shot…

“iCloud backup” on top will backup your whole iPad. It’s a confusing name, which is coherent with the whole apple backup thing and file management. IMO it’s a mess.
Then, at the bottom of the screen, you have individual app backups. So if you’re not backing up Beathawk samples and stuff, it will still be backed up under the top mentioned “iPad state” (iCloud backup).
So it’s indeed duplicating backups and taking up space. The same sample will be saved twice.
If things were done “right” you’d be able to access individual portions from the iPad backup, and have a single backup. But it’s not the case. iPad backup is all or nothing. So you need to buy more iCloud space 💶💶💵

Thanks so much for the explanation. I might experiment and turn off the app backups in the main iPad backup and leave it on in the main backup section.

uncledave

@tahiche said:
Are you using iCloud to backup your iPad?. In that case iCloud is really duplicating backups. Here’s a screen shot…

“iCloud backup” on top will backup your whole iPad. It’s a confusing name, which is coherent with the whole apple backup thing and file management. IMO it’s a mess.
Then, at the bottom of the screen, you have individual app backups. So if you’re not backing up Beathawk samples and stuff, it will still be backed up under the top mentioned “iPad state” (iCloud backup).
So it’s indeed duplicating backups and taking up space. The same sample will be saved twice.
If things were done “right” you’d be able to access individual portions from the iPad backup, and have a single backup. But it’s not the case. iPad backup is all or nothing. So you need to buy more iCloud space 💶💶💵

Actually, I believe the switches you show enable access to iCloud Drive storage for those apps. That allows you to optionally store data you load or create on iCloud Drive, but data is not automatically stored there. That means the data is safely saved, and accessible across multiple devices. But you can also store data locally, and the app may store some internal data only locally. This especially applies to our music apps, which can store many types of data. I do not know if files on iCloud Drive are included in the device app backup, but certainly there will be other app files that are not on iCloud Drive.

My personal choice is to turn almost all those switches off and rely on local storage. I keep my Pages documents in my Box cloud storage, configured from the Pages Settings. Small app data is backed up to iCloud in the normal way. Everything is backed up to my computer once a month, and that's my main backup.

tahiche

@uncledave

Actually, I believe the switches you show enable access to iCloud Drive storage for those apps. That allows you to optionally store data you load or create on iCloud Drive, but data is not automatically stored there.

Yes, you’re right. These are technically not “only “ backups, specially if you have multiple devices and want to access them from any of them. My point was that data is dulicated in these cases, here and in the iPad backup.

wim

@tahiche said:
@uncledave

Actually, I believe the switches you show enable access to iCloud Drive storage for those apps. That allows you to optionally store data you load or create on iCloud Drive, but data is not automatically stored there.

Yes, you’re right. These are technically not “only “ backups, specially if you have multiple devices and want to access them from any of them. My point was that data is dulicated in these cases, here and in the iPad backup.

This is true, but there are important differences (some already mentioned)

• The lower iCloud toggle is a permission only. It says that you authorize the app to use iCloud for storing data. It doesn't say that the app actually does this! (hint: most don't ... for example AudioShare)

• iCloud automated backups are only good for disaster recovery or for transferring to a new device.

  • They are "all or nothing". You can't restore individual files. So ... if you accidentally delete one important file or folder, you have to wipe your iPad and restore everything.
  • They aren't cumulative. So, if you delete a file on Monday, but don't notice it until Friday and the only remaining backup is from Thursday night, your file is gone.
  • They don't back up apps, only user data and settings. When restoring an iCloud backup the apps are re-downloaded from the App Store. If, as sometimes happens, older apps are no longer available, they're gone.
  • You are forced to update to the latest version of iOS as part of the restore process.
  • You're also forced to the latest available version of all apps.
  • Some apps (if not all?) will need to have any iAP content re-downloaded as well. For something like PureSynth Platinum, that can be a long process.
  • It's not clear to me whether the data for an app that does store its data in iCloud Drive rather than on the device is also duplicated in the iCloud backup. I expect not, but can't say.

• Your iCloud storage is the combination of the files you and your apps are storing in folders on iCloud, plus the automated iCloud backups for all the devices you have backups enabled for.

Cambler

Thanks to all for the detailed info. Really helps me to better understand the mess that is iCloud! I'm thinking the best thing to do is turn off device backup and use my Macbook for that on a schedule. Just on that is there a way to automatically have MacOS make a backup when your iPad is connected? I plug in to the Macbook's hub for charging the iPad.

Thanks again!

NeuM

I prefer making all backups to local storage, but if you have something particularly irreplaceable you might want to have it backed up in at least 3 different locations. Try Google Drive, iCloud, Dropbox and local storage. If you need something stored that is very sensitive information such as passwords, consider compressing and encrypting the information first.

wim

@Cambler said:
Thanks to all for the detailed info. Really helps me to better understand the mess that is iCloud! I'm thinking the best thing to do is turn off device backup and use my Macbook for that on a schedule. Just on that is there a way to automatically have MacOS make a backup when your iPad is connected? I plug in to the Macbook's hub for charging the iPad.

Thanks again!

Good choice. Yep, you can do all of that and you don't need iTunes to do it.
iMazing, even the free version, is a great way to go as well.

Cambler

Thanks so much @NeuM and @wim . I use OneDrive for my main backup on desktop and also try to duplicate the important backups on my local file server. I’d just use OneDrive on the iPad but I’m not sure it’s as integrated as iCloud. I was hoping iCloud would be a little more flexible but I figured the $1.50 a month for 50 gig in order to keep files synced is ok. Will experiment a little more anyway.