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‘Splain breath controllers to me, pls

LinearLinemanLinearLineman
edited April 2022 in Other

Is there an inexpensive breath controller for iOS? What is the connection required? Does it only work with specific apps… particularly, SWAM? Thanks!

Comments

  • rs2000rs2000
    edited April 2022

    The best ones I've seen so far are these:
    https://www.tecontrol.se/products

    I only have a Yamaha BC-3 and while it's some kind of a de-facto standard, I wish it had the adjustable response curves of the TEControl.
    If I remember correctly, you'll need a desktop machine to do the adjustments but they'll remain stored when using with the iPad (Camera Connection Kit).

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    Thanks @rs2000. Do you know if it works with SWAM? I assume it connects thru a hub to the cck?

  • rs2000rs2000

    You can connect it directly via CCK3 and I'm quite sure it will work with SWAM as you can freely configure the CC it's sending on.

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    @rs2000, thanks, bro.

  • JudasZimmermanJudasZimmerman

    according to this page it has been tested to work with SWAM and ipads. It might work with the WIDI stuff from CME too, for bluetooth.

    For swam, I use a MIDI recorder flute now, which sends breath pressure to CC 11, Expression (if not configured otherwise). That worked great w the swams, almost without further setup.

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    Thanks @JudasZimmerman. I’m learning.

  • KrupaKrupa

    @JudasZimmerman said:
    according to this page it has been tested to work with SWAM and ipads. It might work with the WIDI stuff from CME too, for bluetooth.

    For swam, I use a MIDI recorder flute now, which sends breath pressure to CC 11, Expression (if not configured otherwise). That worked great w the swams, almost without further setup.

    Wow, that looks cool, and quite cheap compared to what I’ve seen before!

  • Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredrWrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

    You can buy a used Akai EWI for what those BCs sell for new.

  • McDMcD
    edited April 2022

    @rs2000 said:
    You can connect it directly via CCK3 and I'm quite sure it will work with SWAM as you can freely configure the CC it's sending on.

    Does it require a Mac or Windows PC to access this configuration or is there an IOS App to handle the settings? Hopefully the default setting just cover the basic case and MIDI filters could be used to modify sensitivity curves, swap CC to volume, etc.

    https://forum.audiob.us/uploads/editor/kv/oiqw3k824f6n.jpg

  • rs2000rs2000

    @McD By "desktop" I meant a Windows or MacOS machine, sorry. Once you've found 'your' controller response, you can store it in the controller so it will be the default when connecting to the iDevice over CCK3.

  • mjcouchemjcouche

    @LinearLineman I’ve been considering these too. One important difference to note between the TEcontrol and and the EWI seems to be that you play the notes on a keyboard with the TEcontrol as opposed to the “instrument” of the EWI. @rs2000 could likely correct me if I’m wrong

  • rs2000rs2000

    @mjcouche said:
    @LinearLineman I’ve been considering these too. One important difference to note between the TEcontrol and and the EWI seems to be that you play the notes on a keyboard with the TEcontrol as opposed to the “instrument” of the EWI. @rs2000 could likely correct me if I’m wrong

    Indeed. Being the piano wizard that he is, I didn't even consider the option to learn a different instrument although that can get you nicely different results at times.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:
    You can buy a used Akai EWI for what those BCs sell for new.

    Just buy a replacement mouthpiece for it before playing though.

  • heshes

    @mjcouche said:
    @LinearLineman . . . One important difference to note between the TEcontrol and and the EWI seems to be that you play the notes on a keyboard with the TEcontrol as opposed to the “instrument” of the EWI.

    Yes. Also, many people will want to make sure they get a breath controller that also has bite control for vibrato. So if going with TEcontrol make sure to get that model if you want to use it for vibrato. All EWIs and most instrument-type breath controllers will have that, but it always pays to double-check.

  • JudasZimmermanJudasZimmerman

    @hes said:
    Yes. Also, many people will want to make sure they get a breath controller that also has bite control for vibrato. So if going with TEcontrol make sure to get that model if you want to use it for vibrato. All EWIs and most instrument-type breath controllers will have that, but it always pays to double-check.

    The midi recorder I'm using does not; but it does translate the elevation of the flute to CC's so you can add vibrato that way, by raising the instrument to the skies. That looks and feels weird, but, vibrato. Also, cheap.

    If you don't mind looking completely absurd you could probably create a harness of some sort (or use a harmonica holder) to add expression/vibrato through an instrument-type breath controller while playing a keyboard.

  • bigcatrikbigcatrik

    Since both have been mentioned I'll put in my two cents...

    The effect you want to achieve will determine whether you want a keyboard-plus-breath-controller, or an EWI (electric wind instrument).

    At its simplest, a keyboard synthesizer is a sound source plus an envelope. Pressing a key fires off the envelope, and after the envelope's attack and delay, a breath controller allows you to manipulate the sound as it sustains.

    At its simplest, an EWI (electric wind instrument) is a sound source plus your breath as the envelope. Your breath controls attack, delay, sustain, and release by default as a wind instrument does.

    It can get more complicated from there very quickly. For example, if you want to emulate a wind instrument's attack with a keyboard-plus-breath-controller you'll have to deal with what to do with the envelope to make it not sound "keyboardy." Patches may have this built in or not. Some synths allow you to disable all envelopes, some don't.

  • mjcouchemjcouche

    I am curious what people think about this. I find it amazing. I wonder if this similar thing can be accomplished with a kazoo:

  • Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredrWrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

    @mjcouche said:
    I am curious what people think about this. I find it amazing. I wonder if this similar thing can be accomplished with a kazoo:

    That is indeed a midi breath controller! A person lacking funds for a hardware BC could use midi guitar or Touchjam as a BC. Just sing into the mic.

    If you want to play your lines on kb and use the BC to add expression, this approach would work for that too. Map velocity or aftertouch from Thumbjam (or midi guitar) to the envelope on your synth.

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    @mjcouche said:
    I am curious what people think about this. I find it amazing. I wonder if this similar thing can be accomplished with a kazoo:

    This is very interesting. A real plus for aftertouch. Do you think the same effects can be processed in Cubasis?

  • heshes

    There're quite a few Tecontrol demos on youtube. One guy I particularly like has quite a few, you can search his channel for Tecontrol for a list. Many are using Sample Modeling vst's. There's one I particularly liked of him doing a Bond theme with a french horn, can't find that one at the moment. But here's one where he gives an overview:

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    Thx @hes, wonderful drmo and I really liked the down to earth presenter.

  • mjcouchemjcouche

    @LinearLineman said:

    @mjcouche said:
    I am curious what people think about this. I find it amazing. I wonder if this similar thing can be accomplished with a kazoo:

    This is very interesting. A real plus for aftertouch. Do you think the same effects can be processed in Cubasis?

    @LFS ?

  • NeonSiliconNeonSilicon

    I can't find it in the docs, does the TEControl breath controller send MSB and LSB when using the breath controller CC?

  • rs2000rs2000

    @NeonSilicon said:
    I can't find it in the docs, does the TEControl breath controller send MSB and LSB when using the breath controller CC?

    I don't think it's possible. Would you really need more than 127 levels of breath strength?

    @LinearLineman Indeed you can translate aftertouch to breath control but I find it very hard to "play" authentic breath attacks using aftertouch. Staccatos are almost impossible without a breath controller IMHO, or at least some kind of audio level to breath CC converter.

  • NeonSiliconNeonSilicon
    edited April 2022

    @rs2000 said:

    @NeonSilicon said:
    I can't find it in the docs, does the TEControl breath controller send MSB and LSB when using the breath controller CC?

    I don't think it's possible. Would you really need more than 127 levels of breath strength?

    @LinearLineman Indeed you can translate aftertouch to breath control but I find it very hard to "play" authentic breath attacks using aftertouch. Staccatos are almost impossible without a breath controller IMHO, or at least some kind of audio level to breath CC converter.

    Depends, but if the synth supports it then yeah, more is better. The old MIDI controller I made could send both MSB and LSB and mapping the pen pressure of a Wacom tablet to breath control definitely worked better with the full 4096 resolution of the pen.

    I'm guessing that the ADC they are using is an 8-bit one, so they could at most get another bit into the LSB if that's the case. But, I've got a little breakout board for a pressure sensor that I've been playing with that has a 24-bit readout, so I was wondering if the TEControl could do higher resolution.

    Edit: I should note that the sample rate for the sensor I have is way too slow to be useful for this application. It's more-or-less just for testing and playing with the idea. Getting an ADC that's both fast and high resolution is harder/expensive.

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    Thanks, guys. My interest is growing. I have some questions into Tecontrol.

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    I received a prompt response from TEControl…

    Hi, I’ve been investigating your beautiful breath controller (BBC?). I am wanting to use it with the iOS platform using an Arturia MKll midi controller.
    Several questions, please…

    1. Can I program the cc parameters on a lap top and will they then be stored for use with an iPad?

    2. How exactly would I connect this gear? USB from controller and BBC2 into a hub and then into the iPad?

    3. How is BBC2 affected by aftertouch?

    4. Will this work well with SWAM apps? That is my main interest.

    5. Is the Arturia a good choice or do you recommend another midi controller for best results?

    Thanks so much. I’m excited to learn more. Regards, Mike Levy

    The response….
    Thank you for your interest in our products.

    The answer to all your questions is "Yes".

    Only question number 3 needs a comment. Any of the four controllers in
    the BBC2 can be configured to send aftertouch instead of MIDI CC.

    You can download the manual and Configuration Utility from the support page.

    Hope this helps

    Best regards
    Tom

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    @rs2000, it’s occurring to me that since the BBC2 plugs directly into the iPad and not an expression pedal input that it would work with my Kawai ES8. Do you agree with that?

  • rs2000rs2000

    @LinearLineman said:
    @rs2000, it’s occurring to me that since the BBC2 plugs directly into the iPad and not an expression pedal input that it would work with my Kawai ES8. Do you agree with that?

    The ES8 has USB MIDI, right?
    You could connect both the ES8 and the BBC2 to the USB hub and connect that to the iPad.
    While iOS only supports one audio interface, multiple MIDI interfaces can be connected.

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    Thx @rs2000. I got confirmation on that from TEControl, too.

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