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What's the point of a real Moog synth when the apps are so amazing?

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Comments

  • edited May 2022

    I would prefer a real Moog over an iOS version for playing live. Easier to set up and easier to tweak whilst playing.
    No need for separate MIDI controllers that have to be MIDI-learnt or adaptors and extra cables that can become unplugged or fail.
    Plus it looks way cooler on stage 😎

  • Another thing I really like about hardware is that it frees up a lot of cpu cos I have an older device and the model d app ends up being like the only thing I can use. I can just use my hardware d to free up some cpu and use the iPad more for midi and mixing. I do love having the app though to save patches of stuff I come up with on the hardware

  • edited May 2022

    Nothing I’ve heard yet can emulate the visceral analog thump along with that slight bit of noise floor that’s in there. Especially on most Moogs. Otherwise, if youre happy with vsts then have a blast. You’ll save yourself a ton of money and 99.7% or more of people cannot even tell in a mix. If they are paying that much attention to exposing a “fake or real” synth, then they’re missing the point.

    But in general, I do tend to enjoy things moving into the digital realm (vsts, streaming vid and books included). I can’t stand having to dust all that crap that just takes up space just so…people can be impressed with my reading list when they visit??

    I also feel like a small or not so small part is the 80s nostalgia. Maybe it’s like this for every generation, but my generation y group loves nostalgia like nothing else. Like, it started with The Wedding Singer in 1998 I think and still rages on with synthwave and Stranger Things, album artwork, etc.

    Finally, playing dinky MIDI keys feels real stupid and detached. And by the time you invest in an actual pro-quality MIDI keyboard, you may as well have just sprung a little extra for a nice real synth that -hey!-can also double as MIDI keys.

  • @jrjulius said:
    I have a Moog Sirin and all of Moog’s iOS apps. Sound-wise there’s no discernible advantage, at least not to my miserable ears, and I don’t find any specific advantage in “true hands-on control” vs a touchscreen.

    I totally agree, but funnily enough it was this aspect of the Sirin that resulted in me selling mine. The amount of things that were only available through the accompanying plugin made really disappointed with the experience and totally took away a lot of the joy of it.

    I've owned a bunch of Moogs and they all sounded fantastic but they almost all had issues I wasn't able to get past:

    • Little Phatty - didn't like that it wasn't knob per function and I had to pick between things I wanted to tweak in real time
    • Sirin - see above
    • Minitaur - lacked the extra octaves in the higher register, plus see plugin issues with Sirin
    • Grandmother - I'm not actually a semi-modular guy and don't really want to have to patch things to make different sounds... who knew?

    The only one I have bought and still own is the Werkstatt, the most basic synth Moog ever made (no, the Theremin doesn't count!). I love the sound and the immediacy of it. It's fun, at the end of the day. I pair it with a drum machine, a spring reverb and a BBD delay unit and can lose hours and hours making growling bass or pseudo sci-fi sounds blips and bloops (or both!)

    I'm sure I can do it with iOS and I could even map a controller to each function to give my virtual devices the tactility I crave, but it isn't quite the same.

    I'm more productive with apps - and they sound incredible! - but I find odd random fun things with the hardware.

  • Additional: for the best Moog sounds I generally reach for the truly amazing Cherry Audio MG-1 VST which sounds EXACTLY like what I'm after in a Moog (and makes me think that it might be the physical Moog I would like best too... although if I do go for another Moog unit I probably will pick a Sub Phatty instead because it takes less maintenance!)

  • Asking this question on an ipad forum is sort of silly honestly because the responses are going to be 100% predictable (and they were).

  • It will be interesting to see if you come up with any new perspectives. This is a pretty tired debate on most synth forums.

  • edited May 2022

    I'm a 100% software guy. My only hardware synthesizer is an iPad Pro M1. In the sense that is treated as an external device, integrated in my desktop workflow. And from here, it can be converted in a lot of creative synthesizers. Think of this like an OP-1 with its different synth engines, but much more advanced. Samplr, Borderlands Granular, Koala, Animoog Z, FieldScaper, Mononoke, Drambo, Tardigrain, Sunvox, Virtual ANS 3, SKIIID, WebSDR, Fractal Bits, Cube Synth Pro, Redshrike, Aphelian, KQ Unotone, Hexaglyphics, StarWaves, iVCS3... None other external hardware synth comes close to this.

    Also, I will say that the current trend of boutique hardware synths by small manufacturers is overrated, because most of the time, these are nothing more than glorified cheap Chinese ARM chips, relying in the software part, not the hardware components, to create its sounds.

    But also, I understand why people were looking for classic hardware synthesizers, specially the Moog ones.

    And this is because for some classic 100% analog hardware units (not your cheap Behringer clone, doing the same software emulation with a cheap Chinese chip encapsulated in a shiny box), there was something in the sound that was lost in the emulations.

    But this has changed in the last years. And the turning point for me, regarding Moog sound, it's Synapse Audio The Legend. Contrary to past Arturia emulations with a cheap digital sound, this thing encapsulates the real Moog sound. Because finally, the computer tech is there.

    Also, if you take some iOS emulations like iVCS3 and try to compare this to the real thing, in a waves spectrum analysis, it's so damn close to an exact replica of the original. Contrary to the Arturia one.

  • edited May 2022

    Every now and then I think about getting some hardware. Then I ask myself “what am I paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for?” The only answer I ever come up with is tactile real knobs and sliders. That’s it. So I’ve never bought any hardware except for a small midi keyboard once that I don’t even use anymore.

    The only way I’d buy hardware is if something came out that had an incredibly fun and incredibly useful feature, something that really makes the music making smoother and more enjoyable and and more efficient and that this feature couldn’t be found anywhere else. Like a standalone mpc with lots of great sounds and a sequencer with “erase and replace” functionality. I’ve never found such a thing and believe me I’ve looked.

  • @Pynchon said:
    I'm a 100% software guy. My only hardware synthesizer is an iPad Pro M1. In the sense that is treated as an external device, integrated in my desktop workflow. And from here, it can be converted in a lot of creative synthesizers. Think of this like an OP-1 with its different synth engines, but much more advanced. Samplr, Borderlands Granular, Koala, Animoog Z, FieldScaper, Mononoke, Drambo, Tardigrain, Sunvox, Virtual ANS 3, SKIIID, WebSDR, Fractal Bits, Cube Synth Pro, Redshrike, Aphelian, KQ Unotone, Hexaglyphics, StarWaves, iVCS3... None other external hardware synth comes close to this.

    Also, I will say that the current trend of boutique hardware synths by small manufacturers is overrated, because most of the time, these are nothing more than glorified cheap Chinese ARM chips, relying in the software part, not the hardware components, to create its sounds.

    But also, I understand why people were looking for classic hardware synthesizers, specially the Moog ones.

    And this is because for some classic 100% analog hardware units (not your cheap Behringer clone, doing the same software emulation with a cheap Chinese chip encapsulated in a shiny box), there was something in the sound that was lost in the emulations.

    But this has changed in the last years. And the turning point for me, regarding Moog sound, it's Synapse Audio The Legend. Contrary to past Arturia emulations with a cheap digital sound, this thing encapsulates the real Moog sound. Because finally, the computer tech is there.

    Also, if you take some iOS emulations like iVCS3 and try to compare this to the real thing, in a waves spectrum analysis, it's so damn close to an exact replica of the original. Contrary to the Arturia one.

    Your novels are overlong and underwritten. They’re just one convenient coincidence after another. Although, I did really like Inherent Vice once I relaxed and got into that stoner groove. Joaquin Phoenix was the worst casting of Doc imaginable as far as the movie goes.

  • The apps are really good.

    I gotta say too I found most the modern Moog synths I owned to be just ok. The Minitaur was great though.

    The Realistic MG1 is the only Moog I have left. I am more nuts about the old Japanese synths, they have something special about them.

  • @BroCoast said:
    The apps are really good.

    I gotta say too I found most the modern Moog synths I owned to be just ok. The Minitaur was great though.

    The Realistic MG1 is the only Moog I have left. I am more nuts about the old Japanese synths, they have something special about them.

    Yes! The only Moog of mine I’ve kept is an ‘81 Moog Rogue (same exact synth, different branding for Radio Shack I think it was). The saw basses and creamy leads are monsters on that little thing. Unfortunately, it’s showing its age and is getting pret-tay janky and unreliable

    Mind listing a couple of those Japanese ones you’re referring to? Pure curiosity

  • @tk32 said:
    "our great tk32"

    @ervin , I can't work out if that's the highest compliment, or most brutal character assassination I've ever had. :D

    I'm content just being a second-rate humourist amongst this hallowed and esteemed group.

    I guess you’re the difference between an iOS humorist and a hardware wit.😉😎🙏

  • edited May 2022

    @oat_phipps said:

    @BroCoast said:
    The apps are really good.

    I gotta say too I found most the modern Moog synths I owned to be just ok. The Minitaur was great though.

    The Realistic MG1 is the only Moog I have left. I am more nuts about the old Japanese synths, they have something special about them.

    Yes! The only Moog of mine I’ve kept is an ‘81 Moog Rogue (same exact synth, different branding for Radio Shack I think it was). The saw basses and creamy leads are monsters on that little thing. Unfortunately, it’s showing its age and is getting pret-tay janky and unreliable

    Mind listing a couple of those Japanese ones you’re referring to? Pure curiosity


    Roland

    SH-101
    SH-09 (not pictured, I use with band)
    SH-2

    Korg

    MS10
    MS20
    Micro Preset

    🙃

    The Rogue is definitely the better version of the two.

  • edited May 2022

    @db909 said: Like a standalone mpc with lots of great sounds and a sequencer with “erase and replace” functionality. I’ve never found such a thing and believe me I’ve looked.

    Akai Force?

    Re hardware vs software. For me it is even more particular: I have got, and sometimes use Ableton and various VSTs, and they’re great. I’ve also got a (slightly ludicrous amount of) modular gear now, and can easily lose myself for an afternoon messing with it. There’s even a Moog Studio 3 coming soon as a 60th birthday present to myself. But 95% of everything I’ve produced has been on iPad, because, despite everything shitty Apple do, there is nothing as immediate to me as opening AUM, whacking in a load of synths, sequencers, weird effects, and going to town with it. 0 to Noise: 5 seconds or less. In bed, on the sofa, on the bus.

    I love my hardware. But that is hard to beat. Truth is, I could have saved myself thousands:)

  • edited May 2022

    @sevenape said:

    @JeffChasteen said:
    Wooden cheeks?

    I'm totally getting wood from that!

  • I don't think there is a software version of the Theremini's controller though. The synth is basically Animoog.

  • @echoopera said:
    @mistercharlie For me personally, the allure of hardware is the same allure someone might have for nice watches, fine leather goods, well designed notebooks and pens, Range Finder Cameras. It's an aesthetic response to an aesthetic appreciation of what I find beautiful and unique. I am very particular about the gear I acquire, and always seek pieces which will motivate and inspire me to make music in new and different ways.

    I know that I can replicate most of what I want on the iPad or the Desktop...but there is just something organic and fulfilling about having a dedicated box in front of me when I want to play. I guess secretly, I just want to have the ability to play music how and when I want to, so having hardware makes this possible, when I want to pull away from the iPad/Computer, and not get distracted with Twitter or posting on a forum. :)

    Focus is so important when it comes to being creative, so having this focus on hardware is priceless, and I love slowing down when I sit with my gear. It stirs a different part in my brain...I dunno, maybe it accesses both hemispheres during these moments of play. I am sure if we hooked up our brains to an fMRI, I bet we'd see different areas light up when using these devices individually and together.

    Good luck with the article.

    Touché

  • @tk32 said:
    If you replace the words Moog synth and apps in this thread's title with partner and porn videos I find this question kind of answers itself.

    Lmaooooooo 👏

  • @ehehehe said:
    Mostly because of the fun, fast dedicated ergonomics, then nostalgia and lastly maybe to showoff? I was all like f--k analog untill i got a Mother 32, and no midi knobs I've tweaked feels as creamy and smooth. In a track nobody will notice though. Also they last for a long time and can be seen as investments.

    Investments, yes!

  • Personally It’s fun to have both 🤩 Hardware feels like performing, software feels like a laboratory. I wouldn’t trade either. I started with software and grew old enough to buy some hardware. I also find it fun to have a wishlist of gear I want. I’ve acquired many, desire many more and over time I will get more from my list. Either way I love figuring out all my gear, hardware and software. “A ha moments” are everything and tend to help me solve problems in other areas of my life. Cheers to lifelong learning!

  • P.S. My fantasy synth is Moog One… nope, I currently don’t have space for it 😂

  • For me personally, I started to get some hardware to relieve my iPad and controller setup, and because I want some ‘fail safe’. Like if any of the stuff fails, there’s still the others that would keep running, restart and continue. As for focus, a good point for hardware, instead of trying to find the best controller to rule them all, I have a separate controller for each synth (Cheap korg nanos, one for pure acid, one for Zeeon etc) one for mixing (launch control xl) one for the bass drums (launch control) Then a Typhon for leads, bass or else and a Model:Cycles for just about anything, all connected via usb, headphones out of the m:c

  • @vasilymilovidov said:

    @tk32 said:
    If you replace the words Moog synth and apps in this thread's title with partner and porn videos I find this question kind of answers itself.

    so... a partner is an overpriced product that looks cool in your youtube videos and that music companies try to convince you to buy because these new partners behave just like partners did in the 70s? fair point :disappointed:

    In my case I have a Minilogue which was fun for a while but now I’m back to using software synths, like when I started about age 12. The minilogue just sits there on the desk and I pretty much exclusively use it as controller for Diva. Obviously it’s satisfying to have a tactile experience and twist knobs and stuff, but Diva just sounds so good, and if one filter isn’t doing it for you it’s so easy just change to another. Mostly there are presets I keep going back to - my favourite ones feel so familiar now, I find I get the result I want really quickly.

    Also, I have some videos of me using my setup if anyone would like to see…

  • @echoopera said:
    @mistercharlie For me personally, the allure of hardware is the same allure someone might have for nice watches, fine leather goods, well designed notebooks and pens, Range Finder Cameras. It's an aesthetic response to an aesthetic appreciation of what I find beautiful and unique. I am very particular about the gear I acquire, and always seek pieces which will motivate and inspire me to make music in new and different ways.

    I know that I can replicate most of what I want on the iPad or the Desktop...but there is just something organic and fulfilling about having a dedicated box in front of me when I want to play. I guess secretly, I just want to have the ability to play music how and when I want to, so having hardware makes this possible, when I want to pull away from the iPad/Computer, and not get distracted with Twitter or posting on a forum. :)

    Focus is so important when it comes to being creative, so having this focus on hardware is priceless, and I love slowing down when I sit with my gear. It stirs a different part in my brain...I dunno, maybe it accesses both hemispheres during these moments of play. I am sure if we hooked up our brains to an fMRI, I bet we'd see different areas light up when using these devices individually and together.

    Good luck with the article.

    +1

  • @sevenape said:
    I agree, model 15 was the first ios synth to really blow me away. Bought my first ipad to run it more easily!

    Me too! I got it a few days after release and was fiddling around squinting at my iPhone 6 and decided it’s time to get an iPad.

  • I don’t find anything wrong with having both…

    If an iPad is what you can afford…great music can be made
    If you have a shed load of hardware synths, you can still never make any music

    It doesn’t matter what you use
    Only your happiness matters

  • I don’t know. I don’t have that much hardware but certainly have some that doesn’t sound like any software I have. I don’t necessarily thing the reason is because it’s hardware compared to software. I definitely don’t have anything Moog. I’d imagine a real mini-moog might be a nice experience, but I don’t know.

    Just do whatever you want and be fine with it. Physically tweaking something is definitely a different experience than touching the screen to program or even using something like the Launchcontrol XL, etc for virtual either encoders or potentiometers. Some hardware you are still just programming with a menu anyway and hands on controls are very limited.

  • @DMan said:
    I don’t know. I don’t have that much hardware but certainly have some that doesn’t sound like any software I have. I don’t necessarily thing the reason is because it’s hardware compared to software. I definitely don’t have anything Moog. I’d imagine a real mini-moog might be a nice experience, but I don’t know.

    Just do whatever you want and be fine with it. Physically tweaking something is definitely a different experience than touching the screen to program or even using something like the Launchcontrol XL, etc for virtual either encoders or potentiometers. Some hardware you are still just programming with a menu anyway and hands on controls are very limited.

    Try a dreadbox Typhon…it’s a great priced hardware synth, with way more under the hood than most think. FAT FAT FAT

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