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Tim Apple lobbying against App Store anti-trust legislation

Some of you guys may find this interesting, since it’s about the App Store:

https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/apples-backup-plan-to-stop-antitrust?s=r

Comments

  • edited June 2022

    "But conceptually what this law does is regulate the online advertising industry"

    Ok my opinion on this topic.

    Cool, let's regulate big monopolies like Google and Apple so they will be not allowed to pass data about customers preferences and interests to advertising industry. Good.

    Finally i will not see ads just for synths and synth-related stuff - generally stuff i'm really interested in - but all kinds of ads totally unrelated and uninteresting to me, like ads for women tampons, or clothing or gardening tech.

    Really all this regulation is nonsense. IF one wants today total privacy, it's absolutely easy - just install VPN, install browser which block tracking pixels and ad systems - done. You're private (in meaningful way, of course if you re hacker and you want to go super private, there are more advanced techniques, but i guess this kind of people doesn't care about any legislation at all)

    I do not need government care here. As I don't need in 99% cases.

    Problem is people just need stop to rely on "big brother" and get responsibility for own decisions and actions. Government is unnecessary in 99% cases and just makes things more complicated plus wastes tremendous amount of money harvested from taxes. Politicians are trying hard to convince people they need them, they need to be cared, they need all kinds of regulation for safe life - sad truth is, people don't need politicians, politicians need people to suck their money.

  • Governments going after app stores (Google's and Apple's) while Facebook, YouTube and Amazon harvest your life and sell it to the highest bidder is like tidying up while your house is burning down.

  • @dendy said:
    "But conceptually what this law does is regulate the online advertising industry"

    Ok my opinion on this topic.

    Cool, let's regulate big monopolies like Google and Apple so they will be not allowed to pass data about customers preferences and interests to advertising industry. Good.

    Finally i will not see ads just for synths and synth-related stuff - generally stuff i'm really interested in - but all kinds of ads totally unrelated and uninteresting to me, like ads for women tampons, or clothing or gardening tech.

    Really all this regulation is nonsense. IF one wants today total privacy, it's absolutely easy - just install VPN, install browser which block tracking pixels and ad systems - done. You're private (in meaningful way, of course if you re hacker and you want to go super private, there are more advanced techniques, but i guess this kind of people doesn't care about any legislation at all)

    I do not need government care here. As I don't need in 99% cases.

    Problem is people just need stop to rely on "big brother" and get responsibility for own decisions and actions. Government is unnecessary in 99% cases and just makes things more complicated plus wastes tremendous amount of money harvested from taxes. Politicians are trying hard to convince people they need them, they need to be cared, they need all kinds of regulation for safe life - sad truth is, people don't need politicians, politicians need people to suck their money.

    I appreciate your position, @dendy and I'm sure it is right for yourself. However, if you are a vulnerable person, belong to a minority that is pursued by the state or media etc. then you may have a very different opinion about how important privacy is to you. The interests of politics and business often go 100% against maintaining individual privacy, so in order to protect the privacy of those who most need it, you must protect the privacy of everyone. This is an all or nothing game imho.

    BTW, an interesting, and perhaps scary, report on what the situation is like today (in the US; the EU is much better in many ways) was recently done by John Oliver:

  • I watched the John Oliver piece last night and, while I usually really enjoy the serious segments in that show, with this one I think they missed the target by an absolute mile. Your average person in the street really isn't interested in whether Amazon abuses its access to sales data to clone other companies products and flog them cheaper, in fact, many of them will be hugely in favour of being able to buy those things cheaper. So much of the Last Week Tonight segment focussed on things that might hurt businesses while being irrelevant to the general public. Facebook / Meta barely even got a passing mention, despite being by far the worst abusers of public privacy - no mentions of shadow profiles, scripts that track you around the web, abuses of your contacts book and so on. To be fair to the show, they were focusing on the idea of monopoly abuse and why that should matter to people, but they did a terrible job of actually showing why it should matter. And like many governments, spent an awful lot of time talking about app stores, without actually any understanding of the benefits of the closed systems we currently have or the drawbacks of opening them up.

  • edited June 2022

    Apple's App Store is not a monopoly. Android represents a far, far larger market. And even if there were only two big competitors (there are more than just two competitors), that's still not a monopoly!

  • edited June 2022

    @ervin
    then you may have a very different opinion about how important privacy is to you

    but as i mentioned there are relative simple ways how to ensure your privacy is untouched .. there are free VPN options (even for ios - it's super simple, you just install Proton VPN app and you real IP is hidden), there are free anonymised browsers (Onion Browser) or you can even usw just plain "incognito" tab in Chrome (both available on desktop, ios and android) .. There are free end - to - end encrypted messengers like Signal.

    those are actually methods used by people who live in undemocratic countries like russia, china, etc ..

    It's really easy to stay relatively private (at least to the level that it is not worth for anybody zo waste time uncoverimg their real identity).. so no excuse "i don't know how" ..

    sad irony is, people who are most loud about how apple, google is misusing their private data are then publishing on facebook/twitter soo much personal private information and private photos that what apple/google uses for ads optimalisation is literally nothig when compared to what they published publicly about their personal life 🤣

  • @dendy said:

    @ervin
    then you may have a very different opinion about how important privacy is to you

    but as i mentioned there are relative simple ways how to ensure your privacy is untouched .. there are free VPN options (even for ios - it's super simple, you just install Proton VPN app and you real IP is hidden), there are free anonymised browsers (Onion Browser) or you can even usw just plain "incognito" tab in Chrome (both available on desktop, ios and android) .. There are free end - to - end encrypted messengers like Signal.

    those are actually methods used by people who live in undemocratic countries like russia, china, etc ..

    It's really easy to stay relatively private (at least to the level that it is not worth for anybody zo waste time uncoverimg their real identity).. so no excuse "i don't know how" ..

    sad irony is, people who are most loud about how apple, google is misusing their private data are then publishing on facebook/twitter soo much personal private information and private photos that what apple/google uses for ads optimalisation is literally nothig when compared to what they published publicly about their personal life 🤣

    My friend, you're wise as usual, but you're simply not being realistic about most people's internet skills when you list these options as easy and straightforward, is all I'm saying 🤷 🙂

  • edited June 2022

    is it that complicated to tap "new incognito tab" instead of "new tab" in browser ?

  • edited June 2022

    @dendy said:
    is it that complicated to tap "new incognito tab" instead of "new tab" in browser ?

    Yes, because the incognito tab should be the default and the option should be the "I need to log in" tab.

  • edited June 2022

    also whole internet is full of articles like this :

    https://us.norton.com/internetsecurity-privacy-protecting-your-privacy-online.html

    we should not destroy open market and add unnecesary jungle of regulations and restrictions just because some people are lazy to spend some basic time learning how to protect themselves in online space - or at least to ask somebody a bit more experienced around them about those few very simple steps.. I'm in doubt that average joe/jane who is using phone for facebook/twitter/instagram/emails/browsing web doesn't know somebody capable to explain them what i explained here .. it is really not that complicated

    actually stuff i'm mentioning should be learned on elementary schools as basic important knowledge

    sadly problem is people are lazy.. not that it is hard to understand.. thwy rather rely on big brother authority than to take responsibility into their own hands.. which makes me very sad about future of mankind

  • A couple of points to think about:

    A company doesn't need to hold a Monopoly to be found anticompetitive. (This already happened to Apple in the book space.)

    These measures by regulators aren't about consumers. The focus is on enabling competition in the market and allowing new markets to develop.

  • @dendy said:
    also whole internet is full of articles like this :

    https://us.norton.com/internetsecurity-privacy-protecting-your-privacy-online.html

    we should not destroy open market and add unnecesary jungle og regulations and restrictions just because some people are lazy to spend some basic time learning how to protect themselves in online space - or at least asking somebody a bit more experienced around them about those few very simple steps..

    actually stuff i'm mentioning should be learned on elementary schools as basic important knowledge

    I agree with you in principle, but, how many people know that I can use sending them an email to find out if they are at home without their knowing?

    The development of the modern web was much too sloppy and developers do not take their responsibilities seriously. Something has to change.

  • edited June 2022

    @NeonSilicon said:
    A couple of points to think about:

    A company doesn't need to hold a Monopoly to be found anticompetitive. (This already happened to Apple in the book space.)

    These measures by regulators aren't about consumers. The focus is on enabling competition in the market and allowing new markets to develop.

    The ruling against Apple in the e-book market was clearly a sham ruling which unfairly favored Amazon. No one could look at that ruling in context and think it was about enforcing market competition. The Feds even installed a “spy” at Apple who harassed employees. I was quite familiar with the details of that case when it happened.

    Here’s the plain fact of the matter: Laws are written and enforced to benefit someone’s special interest. They do not exist in a vacuum. No law exists in a vacuum.

  • edited June 2022

    @NeonSilicon
    These measures by regulators aren't about consumers. The focus is on enabling competition in the market and allowing new markets to develop.

    in theory, sadly because people who are making those regulations are mostly incompetent politicians, almost always at the end it turns out that it makes more bad than good ..

    at least judging based on EU regulations in last few years :-))

  • @NeuM said:

    @NeonSilicon said:
    A couple of points to think about:

    A company doesn't need to hold a Monopoly to be found anticompetitive. (This already happened to Apple in the book space.)

    These measures by regulators aren't about consumers. The focus is on enabling competition in the market and allowing new markets to develop.

    The ruling against Apple in the e-book market was clearly a sham ruling which unfairly favored Amazon. No one could look at that ruling in context and think it was about enforcing market competition. The Feds even installed a “spy” at Apple who harassed employees. I was quite familiar with the details of that case when it happened.

    Here’s the plain fact of the matter: Laws are written and enforced to benefit someone’s special interest. They do not exist in a vacuum. No law exists in a vacuum.

    I didn't like the ruling either, but my impression was that their internal communication pointed at collusion. If you ask me, the judge's penalty was absurd. But, this makes my point perfectly, the ruling isn't (directly) about consumers. It may even hurt consumers (in the short or long term). These regulations are about competition in the marketplace.

  • edited June 2022

    There are 2 subjects here privacy and whether the app store is a monoply. I will not comment on the privacy issue.

    Well on iOS the app store is a monopoly, as a user, I cannot install any app that does not come from the app store. I cannot buy an app directly from the developer.

    On the Mac it's different, some apps are only on the app store, some are only available from other sources (developer or other stores) and some can be bought both from the app store and the developer. And often that other source is cheaper or offers more value than the Mac store.

  • edited June 2022

    @zvon said:
    There are 2 subjects here privacy and whether the app store is a monoply. I will not comment on the privacy issue.

    Well on iOS the app store is a monopoly, as a user, I cannot install any app that does not come from the app store. I cannot buy an app directly from the developer.

    On the Mac it's different, some apps are only on the app store, some are only available from other sources (developer or other stores) and some can be bought both from the app store and the developer. And often that other source is cheaper or offers more value than the Mac store.

    That's an illogical argument. Your options as a consumer are not your choice of App Stores, it is about which phone (and consequently which OS) you've chosen. Can someone walk into a Walmart and complain that they cannot buy items offered by Target? Can someone roll up to a Shell gas station and demand they offer Exxon Mobil gas? It's an absurd suggestion.

    Developers are the ones who make the final decision about where they want to offer their apps. What about their right to restrict or expand the number of platforms where their apps are sold?

    And getting back to the phone issue, if you restrict your choices to the big two, you can choose between Android phones and iOS phones. If you choose Android, you choose to join the bigger platform but it's also an inferior platform for musicians. Apple isn't to blame for Android's inferior platform.

    There is no monopoly.

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