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AUM Transport, assigning MIDI CC or NOTE using LEARN for "Start Play" parameter, but not working
Hi, just started using AUM this week (so please, bear with me), and having some problems.
I have an AUM session with one File Player, and one AU (Moog Model D), and trying to use my 12 Step MIDI foot controller to trigger the "Start Play" Transport parameter.
When I try the Learn option stepping on a D1 (note 38) on the 12Step, AUM detects a CC "3" instead of the NOTE, and it's ok, because the 12Step only sends CC 3 for every step/key, but to avoid the conflict having every key being CC 3, I'm using StreamByter to change that CC 3 to CC "9"
I try again the Learn option stepping on D2 (note 38) on the 12Step, AUM detects a CC "9" ( no NOTE again), and here is when I have the problem
When I step on that key the Transport "Start Play" doesn't respond, nothing
Then I try also mapping the "Stop/Rewind" parameter, this time using another 12Step key, assigned with D1 (note 26 according with MIDI Wrench), and AUM detects a NOTE "D1(26)" (no CC this time), make sure to press play on AUM to advance the Transport, I test the 12Step with that D1 key, and it works!
So I'm confused...
Why it is not working for "Start Play" parameter?
Then I try it in reverse, D1 for Start Play, and D2 for Stop/Rewind, and AUM detects as expected, NOTE D1(26), and CC 9 respectively (just reverse), but when I tested it Start Play works, and Stop/Rewind does not work.
Looks like AUM detects CC instead of note, but cannot execute the parameter with what was detected by LEARN
I tried manually changing the detected CC (3 or 9) for the NOTE (D1 or D2), but didn't work
Any ideas to work around this?, is this a bug? Is there a way to fix this?
Sorry for the long post, just wanted to be descriptive, Your help will be very much appreciated
Thanks in advance
Comments
First, it will help to send the controller output to a midi monitor to see exactly what's coming from the controller. Streambyter and MIDISpy are two free apps that can help with this. [edit - I see you already have Streambyter. Might as well use that one.]
I think you'll find that the notes you expect are being sent along with the additional CC's. The MIDI Learn system is going to register whichever message is received last (or first?). Doesn't matter as long as the Note is actually received.
If it is, forget "Learning" for a minute and try just setting the note manually, ignoring the CC. Make sure you set the channel, and keep in mind that sometimes different apps and hardware name the octave of notes differently. What is listed as a D2 in the controller manual or the midi monitor may be D1 or D2 in AUM.
As for why CC works some times and not others, it probably has to do with the value of the CC sent. A CC 3 at value below 64 might be detected as an OFF, and 64 or above as an ON (just examples, the actual numbers could be different). For instance, if I set CC 20 for Toggle Play, turning the knob on my controller that sends CC 20 starts play at 12:00 or above, and stops it at below 12:00.
But that's side-tracking things a little. The best answer is to be sure your controller is really sending a note when you press the switch, then set that manually in the MIDI control system for the transport.
Thanks for the response, this is the StreamByter Monitor window (without the rule to change CC 3 to 9, with the rule is the same just changing 3 for 9)
And this is the one I get from MIDI Wrench, just double checking
StreamByter shows the events top to down, so the last event is at the bottom, but MIDI Wrench shows the last event on top.
Looks like 12Step sends Note first, then CC, not sure why AUM detects NOTE for some notes, and CC for others.
I already tried manually setting the NOTE (and Channel), as D0, D1, D2, but the AUM Transport does not work for the one modified manually and not with LEARNing, same as for those with CC anyway...
As for the CC values, maybe I can "force" sending a 127 as value, just to see what it does, as you can see there are CCs with values of 62, 64, 67 and 71 on the testing I captured on the images here.
Any other idea I could try?
@MrFretless5 - did you try offsetting the octave you assign for the note? For instance trying D-1 and D1? If that doesn't work, maybe try blocking CC3 with
BX 03 = XX XX +b(I think. Not tested) and then trying midi learn again.@wim Not sure what you mean about the "offsetting the Octave", just typing D-1 and D1 in the LEARN fields, or using the "semitones" modifier, I think I did both, not sure...
I'll try the StreamByter rule
Thanks
When manualy setting note 38 as the trigger did you specify channel 5?
The cc sent only has a value of 7. This will mean off.
The value of the cc has to be 64 or more to mean on.
According to the 12Step manual, this mysterious CC is one of several parameters that can be sent along with a note. It can be configured to carry velocity, pressure, tilt, etc. It can also be turned off, using the configuration editor. This would make sense since it seems to cause such difficulty.
Certainly, you will be best off manually configuring the events, instead of struggling with MIDI Learn. And focus on the MIDI note number, not these slippery names.
Hey @uncledave , good to see you here too Hehehe, Yes, in this case, because I have been using the 12Step in other configuration, the value that goes with CC is the KeyNum, the steps are numbered from 1 to 13 for each Key/Step.
I will try again doing the manual configuration, considering the different middle C number and all, and also maybe changing the KeyNum for other value, or setting velocity fixed to 127
@Alfred yes, I have tried with channel 5 and OMNI, and since LEARN was catching CC sometimes, and NOTE other times, I was thinking AUM couldn't manage "manual" configuration, but I'll try again, and as I stated above, I can also set a fixed 127 as velocity, I just want to make this work.
BTW, maybe I should be using another set of apps, I just need to use the 12Step as a Foot Keyboard, and trigger sequences/loops on specific moments of the song (Geddy Lee's Rush style) ... Is there any other "better" apps/setup for this objective?
Thanks!
AUM is the best.
Do you play the 12 step barefoot?
Because you could extract all that extra information the 12 step can send.
And do something meaningfull to the sound.
Like sending aftertouch to a synth that plays an arpeggio or/and keytilt to an effect.
Do you mean literally "barefoot"?! hahaha No, I don't :-)
I'm just a Synth/MIDI stuff enthusiast (more a Bass player), so I use the 12Step at the very basic capacity, when I started using it I saw about the tilt, aftertouch, etc., but have not yet been requiring that level of features.
I have a Roland PK-5, and the 12Step is my "portable" (I have it on my pedalboard) setup, with an iPhone, just to play bass pedal, and trigger small loops/sequences, I'm a Rush fan, so...
I asked about other apps, because I have seen comments about LK (by Imaginando), that is more for "live" use, so I wonder if there is something more in line with my use case.
But I agree, I see AUM is great, have seen many YT videos, and posts about it, until I finally got it last week, I have a lot to learn, and have had a 2 or 3 weird issues (Program Change to change Sessions, Transport triggering via MIDI, MIDI channel conflict), but I'm getting there with this workflow :-)
Thanks again
I just tested with the SB rule to block CCs, and does work fine.
Also set the "Start Play" manually to 38 (D2 in AUM), and "Stop/Rewind" to 26 (D1 in AUM)
But just the "Stop/Rewind" responds to D1 (26), nothing happen for D2 (38)
If I switch the notes, "Start Play" is now D1(26), and "Stop/Rewind" is D2(38), again just D1 (26) works as expected doing the "Start Play", and "Stop" does not work
Also checked the velocity for those D1 and D2, and look similar between 60 and 70
Could it be that AUM is set to respond just for lower than C2 or something like that?
@MrFretless5 - Why not use Toggle Play? You already have "Rewind when Stopped" set to Yes, so you simply toggling play should do it for you.
As for the D1 vs D2 being recognized, there's nothing in AUM that would prevent you using note 38. There has to be something else going on.
@wim
When I use Toggle Play (with Cycle or without), with "Rewind when Stopped" YES, using D1(26) it does nothing, if I push Play manually, and then press the 12Step D1 it stops and rewind, but no play, even pressing D1 again, any other setup I'm missing??
Also, just out of curiosity, I started testing "Start Play" with different Notes, at this point starting with D1(26) because it works, then D#1(27) worked, but stopped working from E1(28) and Up
Also works with other lower notes starting at D#1(27) and down.
Can you please try this Transport parameters with any note higher than D#1(27) to see if it just on my side or a general AUM behavior?
Another experiment I just tried is setting Start Play on D1(26), and then Stop/Rewind on the same D1(26) but with "INVERT" enabled, so now it plays the loop pressing D1 on the 12Step, and Stops & Rewind pressing the "Select" key on the 12Step (it is used to change presets, octave, stop sounding notes), that sends a "Note off", so that works...
even with AUM marking a Warning
@MrFretless5 : as an experiment, try sending the higher note from AUM’s own keyboard and see if it works. I just mapped note 48 to start and note 60 to stop. Both worked.
This is all tremendously confusing. It's all perfectly straightforward for me. I map note 60 from my Blueboard controller to Toggle Play, with Rewind when Stopped, and Cycle set.
Yes, it works with any note I care to send. Always has.
I suspect the extra stuff and variable note velocity that your controller is sending are mucking things up. This Streambyter script, or something similar might put things right:
Good Idea using the Virtual Keyboard, but...
This is very weird, I tried the notes you used, and nothing, then all the octaves (just C notes), for C2(36) note and up, but nothing higher triggers the Play...
then started going back from D#1(27), and the last one that worked was E0(16), any lower did not respond to the Start Play parameter.
So I just identified that for me, using the Virtual Keyboard, the only range of notes that trigger the Transport are from E0(16) to D#1(27), 12 notes
What other configuration could cause something like this?
It sounds like you have the note input range to MIDI Control limited.
I know!! very confusing, but I just started a new session, nothing there, not even one unit
Just opened the Virtual Keyboard, and then Set the Transport Play parameter to 48 C3, and nothing, changed to D1(26) and there goes the Play, it worked, I don't know could my just downloaded version of AUM have a bug, it is just 1 octave that works with the Transport...
Finally!!!! a logical explanation, I don't even know when I got there, sorry about all this, you got it, I just saw that the Note Range on MIDI control destinations is that 1 octave E0-D#1
wow, maybe when I was starting with AUM at some point changed this instead of one of the units note rage
Thanks @wim , thank you very much!
I should have clued into that earlier. Troubleshooting while being distracted every two minutes by family members never goes well.
Glad you got it working. 👍🏼
Interesting. You might check those restrictions for some of your other problems.
After checking all the Session files I have been testing (there are like 10), I noticed that the PC issue could be for the same MIDI Control Destination filters... and it looks like it was, wow, what a way to learn something
Thanks to everyone for all the help & support