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Your take on ‘cheating’ - presets, samples, loops, generative etc. how much is too much?

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Comments

  • auxmuxauxmux
    edited June 2022

    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

  • BirbHopeBirbHope

    @Svetlovska said:
    @NeuM said:

    Since I know how to play several instruments, I’m OK with using some degree of automation to speed the production process…”

    Since I don’t know how to play any musical instrument, I’m ok with using shedloads of automation/generators/presets/whatever to speed up the production process. Or indeed to enable it at all. Limits?

    Enough is never enough. ;)

    Thanks for the earworm. Thoroughly embedded now.

  • PoppadocrockPoppadocrock

    You’re right in saying these rules “in my head” because it is a mental thing. Awhile back I used to shy away from using loops, and things ready made, I felt the need to create most things from scratch. Not sure if it was my ego, or what, but Eventually I realized that I was simply setting limitations on my creativity. As long as you are allowed to use it it’s fair game.

  • FPCFPC
    edited June 2022

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @seonnthaproducer said:
    A guitar is a preset…

    Yah this is why I dont have much preset guilt. I also found the majority of those who say that you need to make your own patches to sound unique usually just end up making patches that sound like every other preset. I suppose if you wanted to stand out in a particular focused or narrow genre it makes sense but I tend to feel the novel combination of instruments and sounds (pre-exisitng or not) without focusing on a specific genre is what interests me.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    I forget the specific book but there was a cyberpunk story from back in the 80s or so where all music was just generated based on data of the masses physiological responses. Was trippy at the time but seems so mundane now heh. Also, not sure why they felt it wouldn't just be based on an individuals reaction. wish I could find out what story that was as I would like to read it again.

  • auxmuxauxmux
    edited June 2022

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    I forget the specific book but there was a cyberpunk story from back in the 80s or so where all music was just generated based on data of the masses physiological responses. Was trippy at the time but seems so mundane now heh. Also, not sure why they felt it wouldn't just be based on an individuals reaction. wish I could find out what story that was as I would like to read it again.

    Is that Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure? :smiley:

  • FPCFPC

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    I forget the specific book but there was a cyberpunk story from back in the 80s or so where all music was just generated based on data of the masses physiological responses. Was trippy at the time but seems so mundane now heh. Also, not sure why they felt it wouldn't just be based on an individuals reaction. wish I could find out what story that was as I would like to read it again.

    Scary dystopian future arrives. World shrugs it's shoulders.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @auxmux said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    I forget the specific book but there was a cyberpunk story from back in the 80s or so where all music was just generated based on data of the masses physiological responses. Was trippy at the time but seems so mundane now heh. Also, not sure why they felt it wouldn't just be based on an individuals reaction. wish I could find out what story that was as I would like to read it again.

    Is that Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure? :smiley:

    lol, who knows given my memory. Thought it was Neuromancer at one time but I was apparently wrong.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    I forget the specific book but there was a cyberpunk story from back in the 80s or so where all music was just generated based on data of the masses physiological responses. Was trippy at the time but seems so mundane now heh. Also, not sure why they felt it wouldn't just be based on an individuals reaction. wish I could find out what story that was as I would like to read it again.

    Scary dystopian future arrives. World shrugs it's shoulders.

    Not like the recent pasts weren't scary as all hell. Just glad to get whatever peace and dignity I can while it lasts.

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    I forget the specific book but there was a cyberpunk story from back in the 80s or so where all music was just generated based on data of the masses physiological responses. Was trippy at the time but seems so mundane now heh. Also, not sure why they felt it wouldn't just be based on an individuals reaction. wish I could find out what story that was as I would like to read it again.

    Scary dystopian future arrives. World shrugs it's shoulders.

  • FPCFPC

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    I forget the specific book but there was a cyberpunk story from back in the 80s or so where all music was just generated based on data of the masses physiological responses. Was trippy at the time but seems so mundane now heh. Also, not sure why they felt it wouldn't just be based on an individuals reaction. wish I could find out what story that was as I would like to read it again.

    Scary dystopian future arrives. World shrugs it's shoulders.

    Ha! This takes me back! I used to exclusivity buy EBM etc from about 88-91. Always preferred Front 242 though. Looking back much of it was terrible 🤣

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    I forget the specific book but there was a cyberpunk story from back in the 80s or so where all music was just generated based on data of the masses physiological responses. Was trippy at the time but seems so mundane now heh. Also, not sure why they felt it wouldn't just be based on an individuals reaction. wish I could find out what story that was as I would like to read it again.

    Scary dystopian future arrives. World shrugs it's shoulders.

    Ha! This takes me back! I used to exclusivity buy EBM etc from about 88-91. Always preferred Front 242 though. Looking back much of it was terrible 🤣

    Yah most of it has not held up well (particularly the engineering and vocals) but at the same time I am surprised with some of the things I went back to recently that are on pretty steady work rotation for me now.

  • auxmuxauxmux

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    I forget the specific book but there was a cyberpunk story from back in the 80s or so where all music was just generated based on data of the masses physiological responses. Was trippy at the time but seems so mundane now heh. Also, not sure why they felt it wouldn't just be based on an individuals reaction. wish I could find out what story that was as I would like to read it again.

    Scary dystopian future arrives. World shrugs it's shoulders.

    Ha! This takes me back! I used to exclusivity buy EBM etc from about 88-91. Always preferred Front 242 though. Looking back much of it was terrible 🤣

    Yah most of it has not held up well (particularly the engineering and vocals) but at the same time I am surprised with some of the things I went back to recently that are on pretty steady work rotation for me now.

    Probably still beats most EDM.

  • FPCFPC
    edited June 2022

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    I forget the specific book but there was a cyberpunk story from back in the 80s or so where all music was just generated based on data of the masses physiological responses. Was trippy at the time but seems so mundane now heh. Also, not sure why they felt it wouldn't just be based on an individuals reaction. wish I could find out what story that was as I would like to read it again.

    Scary dystopian future arrives. World shrugs it's shoulders.

    Ha! This takes me back! I used to exclusivity buy EBM etc from about 88-91. Always preferred Front 242 though. Looking back much of it was terrible 🤣

    Yah most of it has not held up well (particularly the engineering and vocals) but at the same time I am surprised with some of the things I went back to recently that are on pretty steady work rotation for me now.

    Still I bet they programmed every note on their Kawai R100 drum machines and Roland D series synth presets >:)

  • AudioGusAudioGus

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    I forget the specific book but there was a cyberpunk story from back in the 80s or so where all music was just generated based on data of the masses physiological responses. Was trippy at the time but seems so mundane now heh. Also, not sure why they felt it wouldn't just be based on an individuals reaction. wish I could find out what story that was as I would like to read it again.

    Scary dystopian future arrives. World shrugs it's shoulders.

    Ha! This takes me back! I used to exclusivity buy EBM etc from about 88-91. Always preferred Front 242 though. Looking back much of it was terrible 🤣

    Yah most of it has not held up well (particularly the engineering and vocals) but at the same time I am surprised with some of the things I went back to recently that are on pretty steady work rotation for me now.

    Still I bet they programmed every note on their Kawai R100 drum machines and Roland D series synth presets >:)

    Yah I listen to a lot of it and really have no clue how they could done a lot of it at the time. Probably a good dose of hard work and obsession were required.

  • seonnthaproducerseonnthaproducer
    edited June 2022

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    Isn’t that what we do already? I mean if your goal was to make it big in the music industry, then sure, it’ll be a bit tougher but the purpose of playing instruments, using loops, tweaking synths, or using the power of the Luke Skywalkers’ force via telepathy to make the song we have in our minds boils down to the same thing…creativity.

    500 years ago, if someone said that you would be in a metal box and it would run faster than any lion, they would think you were crazy. Yet, we have cars and airplanes.

  • seonnthaproducerseonnthaproducer
    edited June 2022

    Also, this 1-minute video summarizes my thoughts on this topic.

    https://m.facebook.com/NativeInstruments/videos/sounds-originals-behind-the-scenes-diplo-drops/262840677706450/

  • FPCFPC

    o:) > @seonnthaproducer said:

    @FPC said:

    @auxmux said:
    Everything and nothing is acceptable, it's about the process and what you put in. Here's a classic on music making and 'cheating.'

    "I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

    Lol. Nice one 👍

    10 years from now: new artificial intelligence software completely removes the need for human input altogether. The software 'best guesses' the whole track based upon your Spotify listening habits and your mood and then produces accordingly. You get to name the track (subject to terms and conditions) and choose the artwork. Maybe...

    Isn’t that what we do already? I mean if your goal was to make it big in the music industry, then sure, it’ll be a bit tougher but the purpose of playing instruments, using loops, tweaking synths, or using the power of the Luke Skywalkers’ force via telepathy to make the song we have in our minds boils down to the same thing…creativity.

    Yeah I suppose so. Just wondering where it'll all end, just how far it will eventually go. Not that I'm necessarily against any advances in music technology.

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @sclurbs said:
    If my samples can fool the DistroKid algorithms into thinking I don't have to pay royalties (they're quite good at this), I've done a good enough job making that shit my own to not worry about so called "cheating"

    There's always those synth presets in every DAW that are immediately recognizable everywhere, and I try to avoid those. If Jpegmafia makes a banger with the rubber mallet ableton preset I don't judge him, dude is a producer powerhouse. And I do almost always tweak the sounds. But in general I look at that stuff like I do my cello or my cornet or my banjo: I did not build those instruments from the ground up from scratch. Like, I'm not stealing from the luthier who crafted my cello by playing it how it is and not radically changing it by filling it up with epoxy or sawing it in half or something. I don't see why synths can't be looked at the same way, at least to some extent

    Great point and kudos on the Peggy reference. Dudes a monster.

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @PeteSasqwax said:

    "Byoooon" is my philosophy.

    Beyond that, whatever I use, I process to make it mine. It's the audio equivalent of young kids licking food to claim ownership over their siblings :wink:

    I have odd rules with Koala where I only use one single cycle waveform from a sample to make entire tracks, utilising all the resampling options to create all the elements I need, but that's about it.

    One of my favorite things to do with Koala and samplers in general. Trying to squeeze as much life out of a sample as possible is insanely fun.

  • LinearLinemanLinearLineman

    @FPC said:

    @LinearLineman said:
    In thinking about this I decided to divide music in two. Dance music and non dance music, or everything else. The difference between the two being the role of originality. Dance music requires being danceable. It doesn’t necessarily need originality at all.

    For everything else, originality is of prime importance (to me). To that end it doesn’t matter how it’s made. Does it sound original or not? Parsing which technique is allowable is irrelevant, IMO, if the result sounds non distinctive. If it has a distinctive sound with surprises, drama, etc, then it doesn’t matter to me how it’s made. If you use chocolate pudding mix to make an irresistible dessert, who cares?

    My music was good before I started with iOS. I think it got a lot better with all the gimmicks I now have at my disposal. An ARP is a great example. I think most creators would say using an ARP isn’t “cheating” and I agree. But plugging an ARP into one of my lines almost always creates something I didn’t imagine. Then I take that surprise and run with it. The gimmicks and my creativity run hand in hand. The important thing, to me, is does it sound good and is there a uniqueness to it.

    I made a whole album using Fugue Machine. Many of the tracks didn’t sound like what Fugue Machine was intended for. I think the same could be done with any generative app.

    As far as presets… never, in my wildest dreams, could I create anything like our venerable @Spidericemidas does. Similarly, I don’t think he could make tracks like I do. But putting them together has allowed me to do some of my best stuff. I mean you can make the case that if you’re building colonial style furniture some would insist you don’t use power tools… still, if you use them you get just as good a result for aesthetic and functionality. An expert eye could tell the difference, but you still have a “fake” because it wasn’t made two and a half. centuries ago.

    I think I must’ve fallen behind with your prodigious output LL. In my mind you’re sat behind a nicely weighted 76 key keyboard doing very musical, two handed things! Fugue Machine is one I don’t have but I’m still shocked!

    (All meant in a very light hearted way BTW… too many arguments on ABF lately)

    Lol, I released that album September 2019. Probably before your time.

    https://michaelalevy.bandcamp.com/album/fugue-machines

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @BirbHope said:

    @FPC said:

    @Tarekith said:

    A friend changed my view on this when he said using samples and presets is no different from hiring session musicians for your album. Sure you could eventually learn to play sax if you wanted it in one of your songs, or you could just hire someone who's already good at it and get on with things.

    Actually that's a really good point. Nobody ever chastised David Bowie for having Robert Fripp playing guitar for him. I'd never thought of it like that....

    I came to a similar conclusion when listening to Massive Attack way back when. Their creativity seemed to revolve as much around the collaborations they came up with as the songs themselves.
    Also, the segment about auditioning drummers for “Peg” in the “Making of Aja” documentary was pretty eye opening for me when I realized just how much Bernard Purdy ended up contributing to the feel of that track.

    That making of documentary is fantastic. It really helped me a lot in thinking of how I approach music. Geniuses (also RIP Walter Becker).

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @ronnieb said:
    The only thing that matters is end result. Limitations bread creativity but rules can ruin art.

    The sound design aspect of music has always interested me the most but oddly, most of my favourite music is heavily sample based. Despite that, it took me years to understand the art of sampling and to really appreciate it.
    When I started making music I had very similar thoughts on sampling in general. If I ever used a sample, I had to make sure I processed it beyond recognition. My music 100% suffered because of it. I spent soooo long on tracks, grinding them into oblivion just to make sure I didn’t feel like I was “cheating”.

    It’s very easy to think of it as cheating but look at it in the context of art, there are countless examples of paintings or photographs where your immediate thought might be “I could have done that”….. but you didn’t.
    Look at hip hop, some of the beats ever made are super simple sample chops. Are Madlib and The Alchemist just dirty cheats? I could (and will) argue that they are two of most important producers alive.

    Is this cheating?

    I just wish I was better at sampling….

    DJ Shadow as well. I mentioned it earlier but there’s a lot to be said about having a good enough ear to hear a sample and immediately know how to work it into a full track. All 3 of those guys are geniuses.

  • tpjtpj

    Started with just midi and a sampler. 1 track a time.
    DAW + plugins. Endless presets and options. 10 tracks never finished.
    Now, multitrack / record / bounce jams and improv sessions to audio.
    I Get more stuff done, force myself forward. Embrace the moment. Now more happy with results.

    In the end they are all tools and instruments.
    An expensive camera does not make timeless images. The eye does.

    Built your personal palette of sound and tools that resonate with you.
    Less is more.
    Define your taste. What you like, what you dislike.
    That combination is unique.

  • shinyisshinyshinyisshiny

    i use anything and everything. if it works it works.

  • DMfanDMfan

    @FPC said:

    @Tarekith said:

    A friend changed my view on this when he said using samples and presets is no different from hiring session musicians for your album. Sure you could eventually learn to play sax if you wanted it in one of your songs, or you could just hire someone who's already good at it and get on with things.

    Actually that's a really good point. Nobody ever chastised David Bowie for having Robert Fripp playing guitar for him. I'd never thought of it like that....

    Very good point.

    /DMfan🖤💔

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