You talked me into buying TC-Data

Gavinski

Fuck it, took the plunge now I'm gonna dive in.

To get it to show in AUM you have to go to settings in tc-data, and enable 'virtual midi output'. Then follow the routing someone posted above. Wish me luck with first play!

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

I tried it for a few hours last night. I wasn’t able to get it working in AUM (but also did not rtm or try every setting). I did get it to control standalone IAA versions of Animoog and Model 15. There are many presets; I don’t think a lot of TC programming would be necessary. The default preset seemed the most musical one.

Cons: I did not get any output from the default patch that I could not have gotten just as easily with the Animoog and Touchscaper controllers. I tried another patch with a lot of pitch bend that was pretty wild; that one might work well with Fundamental if you are okay being outside a tonal system. It does not appear that you can choose your own notes; you can only select a scale and key and octave. For me this is a huge drawback compared to Animoog and Touchscaper.

Pros: It is very beautiful and fun to play. The presets all load on gray monochrome, but it has gorgeous color schemes you can choose. It is not for executing a musical idea; it’s for happy accidents. Think of it as a generative controller with probability settings.

McD

Man walks into a crowded bar and requests “Talk me out of buying a drink.” The crowd replies “You could buy me one.”

Carnbot

You don't need to use the virtual port at all because TC-data will send midi to AUMs midi port without it

Gavinski

@Carnbot said:
You don't need to use the virtual port at all because TC-data will send midi to AUMs midi port without it

OK!

Yeah really great first impression just using the default preset driving 2 sounds in AUM with delay added to one. Really looking forward to diving deeper. Will post a shortish demo tomorrow which will include a giveaway for some @zvon Sample Packs (I used his lovely Baby Bells from his Baby Piano pack here)loaded into @RyoutaKira KQ Sampei. Also used Nambu 👍

Thanks for talking me in to getting this!

McD

We failed you… but we fail to control ourselves too.

Man in Bar: “Martini… shaken, not stirred.” - James Bond

Attractive female approaches with gun hidden behind her back.
Bond grabs her and takes rather gun and extracts a punishing kiss.

Carnbot

Great Yeah it's a very useful tool and with the multi-patch setups you can create some interesting improvisations. Also has OSC, so it's useful for controlling visual software too.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@bsantoro said:
I agree, it’s one of those apps that you do not use too frequently; but it has great application for cinematic and ambient soundscapes. It works good if you route it to AUM virtual, then AUM virtual to your synth. I recently locked a patch to the Dorian mode, and channeled it to SynthMaster 2 with a synth pad sound. You can get some fantastic performances with some of the patches; like orchestral swells, etc. Also for creating some great textures.

This worked for me; thanks very much. Turns out that once you get the midi connected, it’s not nearly as daunting as it seems. You just pick through the presets until you find one that sounds good with your synth patch. I’ve only had to set the key and scale in the settings.

I wish I’d tinkered with this app before. I’m getting some insane textured pads driving Model 15.

espiegel123

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@bsantoro said:
I agree, it’s one of those apps that you do not use too frequently; but it has great application for cinematic and ambient soundscapes. It works good if you route it to AUM virtual, then AUM virtual to your synth. I recently locked a patch to the Dorian mode, and channeled it to SynthMaster 2 with a synth pad sound. You can get some fantastic performances with some of the patches; like orchestral swells, etc. Also for creating some great textures.

This worked for me; thanks very much. Turns out that once you get the midi connected, it’s not nearly as daunting as it seems. You just pick through the presets until you find one that sounds good with your synth patch. I’ve only had to set the key and scale in the settings.

I wish I’d tinkered with this app before. I’m getting some insane textured pads driving Model 15.

Why not route TC-Data directly to SynthMaster?

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@espiegel123 said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@bsantoro said:
I agree, it’s one of those apps that you do not use too frequently; but it has great application for cinematic and ambient soundscapes. It works good if you route it to AUM virtual, then AUM virtual to your synth. I recently locked a patch to the Dorian mode, and channeled it to SynthMaster 2 with a synth pad sound. You can get some fantastic performances with some of the patches; like orchestral swells, etc. Also for creating some great textures.

This worked for me; thanks very much. Turns out that once you get the midi connected, it’s not nearly as daunting as it seems. You just pick through the presets until you find one that sounds good with your synth patch. I’ve only had to set the key and scale in the settings.

I wish I’d tinkered with this app before. I’m getting some insane textured pads driving Model 15.

Why not route TC-Data directly to SynthMaster?

Seems like it should work, but it didn’t.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@Gavinski said:

@bygjohn said:
I’ve just skimmed through this thread, so apologies if someone’s suggested this already.

Have you tried using Mononoke’s pad controller with Fundamental? Not Mononoke itself, the MPE/MIDI controller that comes with it. I haven’t used it in anger, but I did set it up once, and it does work.

What did you have to do to get it working? I wasn’t crazy about the way mpe implementation was handled on Fundamental, so it has been a long time since I tried playing it with any kind of mpe controller. Just gave it a quick try now, not sure of the best way to use this to ‘play’ the oscillators pitch, will need to take a look at the manual. All oscillators are changing pitch together, even though I am using ‘user layout’, not ‘harmonic’.

Also I notice that Mononoke Pads standalone does not seem to let you choose ‘free’ - it is stuck to ‘note’. Has it always been like that or…? I remember that using Mononoke itself you can select free pitch for each slider.

I don’t have Mononoke, but it seems like it might make a good target for TC-Data.

Gavinski

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@Gavinski said:

@bygjohn said:
I’ve just skimmed through this thread, so apologies if someone’s suggested this already.

Have you tried using Mononoke’s pad controller with Fundamental? Not Mononoke itself, the MPE/MIDI controller that comes with it. I haven’t used it in anger, but I did set it up once, and it does work.

What did you have to do to get it working? I wasn’t crazy about the way mpe implementation was handled on Fundamental, so it has been a long time since I tried playing it with any kind of mpe controller. Just gave it a quick try now, not sure of the best way to use this to ‘play’ the oscillators pitch, will need to take a look at the manual. All oscillators are changing pitch together, even though I am using ‘user layout’, not ‘harmonic’.

Also I notice that Mononoke Pads standalone does not seem to let you choose ‘free’ - it is stuck to ‘note’. Has it always been like that or…? I remember that using Mononoke itself you can select free pitch for each slider.

I don’t have Mononoke, but it seems like it might make a good target for TC-Data.

Yes will need to explore for sure

uncledave

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@espiegel123 said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@bsantoro said:
I agree, it’s one of those apps that you do not use too frequently; but it has great application for cinematic and ambient soundscapes. It works good if you route it to AUM virtual, then AUM virtual to your synth. I recently locked a patch to the Dorian mode, and channeled it to SynthMaster 2 with a synth pad sound. You can get some fantastic performances with some of the patches; like orchestral swells, etc. Also for creating some great textures.

This worked for me; thanks very much. Turns out that once you get the midi connected, it’s not nearly as daunting as it seems. You just pick through the presets until you find one that sounds good with your synth patch. I’ve only had to set the key and scale in the settings.

I wish I’d tinkered with this app before. I’m getting some insane textured pads driving Model 15.

Why not route TC-Data directly to SynthMaster?

Seems like it should work, but it didn’t.

You probably know this, but virtual MIDI port naming can be confusing. When an app publishes a virtual MIDI port, other apps see the port named for the app, but naming inside the app can vary. AUM has tried to be very explicit with its naming. If TC-Data was sending to its own virtual MIDI port, it would reach AUM on the port named TC-Data. If it was sending to "AUM", the MIDI would reach AUM on the "AUM Destination" (input) port. It looks like this is what you were doing, since that port is sending MIDI to SynthMaster. The other routing, from TC-Data to "AUM Source" (output) has no effect inside AUM, and is likely doing nothing.

Gavinski

@uncledave said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@espiegel123 said:

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@bsantoro said:
I agree, it’s one of those apps that you do not use too frequently; but it has great application for cinematic and ambient soundscapes. It works good if you route it to AUM virtual, then AUM virtual to your synth. I recently locked a patch to the Dorian mode, and channeled it to SynthMaster 2 with a synth pad sound. You can get some fantastic performances with some of the patches; like orchestral swells, etc. Also for creating some great textures.

This worked for me; thanks very much. Turns out that once you get the midi connected, it’s not nearly as daunting as it seems. You just pick through the presets until you find one that sounds good with your synth patch. I’ve only had to set the key and scale in the settings.

I wish I’d tinkered with this app before. I’m getting some insane textured pads driving Model 15.

Why not route TC-Data directly to SynthMaster?

Seems like it should work, but it didn’t.

You probably know this, but virtual MIDI port naming can be confusing. When an app publishes a virtual MIDI port, other apps see the port named for the app, but naming inside the app can vary. AUM has tried to be very explicit with its naming. If TC-Data was sending to its own virtual MIDI port, it would reach AUM on the port named TC-Data. If it was sending to "AUM", the MIDI would reach AUM on the "AUM Destination" (input) port. It looks like this is what you were doing, since that port is sending MIDI to SynthMaster. The other routing, from TC-Data to "AUM Source" (output) has no effect inside AUM, and is likely doing nothing.

Just checked this, yes, you're absolutely right. All that is needed is to send AUM destination to the synth(s) etc you want to control.

Still haven't finished the manual but am having trouble seeing ahdsr settings in tc-data make any difference to, eg, the attack of the synths I'm sending it to. Any thoughts anyone?

bleep

@Gavinski said:
Still haven't finished the manual but am having trouble seeing ahdsr settings in tc-data make any difference to, eg, the attack of the synths I'm sending it to. Any thoughts anyone?

Now how would you expect that? For that to work, there would need to be a midi standard for how to send ADSR to any synth ... but there is not. You would need to set up sending to A, D, S, and R using different CCs, for synths that support that. The ADSR in TC-Data is rather used if you want to ramp the CC values you are sending. Check the manual.

Edit: I guess if you can set the synth to have no ADSR envelope, and also have an amp parameter for each voice that can be controlled by a CC, then your TC-Data could send a single CC to this amp, being ramped by the internal ADSR in TC-Data. Haven´t tried. Hm, would maybe not work as expected for a polysynth.

uncledave

@bleep said:

@Gavinski said:
Still haven't finished the manual but am having trouble seeing ahdsr settings in tc-data make any difference to, eg, the attack of the synths I'm sending it to. Any thoughts anyone?

Now how would you expect that? For that to work, there would need to be a midi standard for how to send ADSR to any synth ... but there is not. You would need to set up sending to A, D, S, and R using different CCs, for synths that support that. The ADSR in TC-Data is rather used if you want to ramp the CC values you are sending. Check the manual.

Edit: I guess if you can set the synth to have no ADSR envelope, and also have an amp parameter for each voice that can be controlled by a CC, then your TC-Data could send a single CC to this amp, being ramped by the internal ADSR in TC-Data. Haven´t tried. Hm, would maybe not work as expected for a polysynth.

Yes. And you'll need to trigger (gate) the TC-Data envelope from the note event.

Gavinski

@bleep said:

@Gavinski said:
Still haven't finished the manual but am having trouble seeing ahdsr settings in tc-data make any difference to, eg, the attack of the synths I'm sending it to. Any thoughts anyone?

Now how would you expect that? For that to work, there would need to be a midi standard for how to send ADSR to any synth ... but there is not. You would need to set up sending to A, D, S, and R using different CCs, for synths that support that. The ADSR in TC-Data is rather used if you want to ramp the CC values you are sending. Check the manual.

Edit: I guess if you can set the synth to have no ADSR envelope, and also have an amp parameter for each voice that can be controlled by a CC, then your TC-Data could send a single CC to this amp, being ramped by the internal ADSR in TC-Data. Haven´t tried. Hm, would maybe not work as expected for a polysynth.

Thanks, yes it also seemed to me like this would be impossible, so was wondering if I had overlooked some voodoo magic. In TC-11 (which I don't have, do the adsr envelopes actually work to control the ahdsr of the internal sounds?

Gavinski

@Gavinski said:

@bleep said:

@Gavinski said:
Still haven't finished the manual but am having trouble seeing ahdsr settings in tc-data make any difference to, eg, the attack of the synths I'm sending it to. Any thoughts anyone?

Now how would you expect that? For that to work, there would need to be a midi standard for how to send ADSR to any synth ... but there is not. You would need to set up sending to A, D, S, and R using different CCs, for synths that support that. The ADSR in TC-Data is rather used if you want to ramp the CC values you are sending. Check the manual.

Edit: I guess if you can set the synth to have no ADSR envelope, and also have an amp parameter for each voice that can be controlled by a CC, then your TC-Data could send a single CC to this amp, being ramped by the internal ADSR in TC-Data. Haven´t tried. Hm, would maybe not work as expected for a polysynth.

Thanks, yes it also seemed to me like this would be impossible, so was wondering if I had overlooked some voodoo magic. In TC-11 (which I don't have, do the adsr envelopes actually work to control the ahdsr of the internal sounds?

That midi standard for how to send adsr to any synth? Is that something coming in midi 2.0 do u know?

bygjohn

@Gavinski said:

@bygjohn said:
I’ve just skimmed through this thread, so apologies if someone’s suggested this already.

Have you tried using Mononoke’s pad controller with Fundamental? Not Mononoke itself, the MPE/MIDI controller that comes with it. I haven’t used it in anger, but I did set it up once, and it does work.

What did you have to do to get it working? I wasn’t crazy about the way mpe implementation was handled on Fundamental, so it has been a long time since I tried playing it with any kind of mpe controller. Just gave it a quick try now, not sure of the best way to use this to ‘play’ the oscillators pitch, will need to take a look at the manual. All oscillators are changing pitch together, even though I am using ‘user layout’, not ‘harmonic’.

Also I notice that Mononoke Pads standalone does not seem to let you choose ‘free’ - it is stuck to ‘note’. Has it always been like that or…? I remember that using Mononoke itself you can select free pitch for each slider.

Apologies for delayed reply, I missed the notification, I think. It just needed the pad notes setting to the right notes for each of the 8 oscillators, as listed in the Fundamental manual. Each pad then controls one oscillator, and the notes on the pads themselves don’t matter in this case, as the oscillators just play the frequencies they’re set to, modulated by how you play the pads. So in essence, it’s more like having a set of 8 controllers like that hardware one (Expressive-E Touché), one for each of Fundamental's oscillators, rather than a “standard” MPE keyboard.

Gavinski

@bygjohn said:

@Gavinski said:

@bygjohn said:
I’ve just skimmed through this thread, so apologies if someone’s suggested this already.

Have you tried using Mononoke’s pad controller with Fundamental? Not Mononoke itself, the MPE/MIDI controller that comes with it. I haven’t used it in anger, but I did set it up once, and it does work.

What did you have to do to get it working? I wasn’t crazy about the way mpe implementation was handled on Fundamental, so it has been a long time since I tried playing it with any kind of mpe controller. Just gave it a quick try now, not sure of the best way to use this to ‘play’ the oscillators pitch, will need to take a look at the manual. All oscillators are changing pitch together, even though I am using ‘user layout’, not ‘harmonic’.

Also I notice that Mononoke Pads standalone does not seem to let you choose ‘free’ - it is stuck to ‘note’. Has it always been like that or…? I remember that using Mononoke itself you can select free pitch for each slider.

Apologies for delayed reply, I missed the notification, I think. It just needed the pad notes setting to the right notes for each of the 8 oscillators, as listed in the Fundamental manual. Each pad then controls one oscillator, and the notes on the pads themselves don’t matter in this case, as the oscillators just play the frequencies they’re set to, modulated by how you play the pads. So in essence, it’s more like having a set of 8 controllers like that hardware one (Expressive-E Touché), one for each of Fundamental's oscillators, rather than a “standard” MPE keyboard.

Thanks, definitely time to revisit the mpe section of the manual, cheers!

Gavinski

@Gavinski said:

@bygjohn said:

@Gavinski said:

@bygjohn said:
I’ve just skimmed through this thread, so apologies if someone’s suggested this already.

Have you tried using Mononoke’s pad controller with Fundamental? Not Mononoke itself, the MPE/MIDI controller that comes with it. I haven’t used it in anger, but I did set it up once, and it does work.

What did you have to do to get it working? I wasn’t crazy about the way mpe implementation was handled on Fundamental, so it has been a long time since I tried playing it with any kind of mpe controller. Just gave it a quick try now, not sure of the best way to use this to ‘play’ the oscillators pitch, will need to take a look at the manual. All oscillators are changing pitch together, even though I am using ‘user layout’, not ‘harmonic’.

Also I notice that Mononoke Pads standalone does not seem to let you choose ‘free’ - it is stuck to ‘note’. Has it always been like that or…? I remember that using Mononoke itself you can select free pitch for each slider.

Apologies for delayed reply, I missed the notification, I think. It just needed the pad notes setting to the right notes for each of the 8 oscillators, as listed in the Fundamental manual. Each pad then controls one oscillator, and the notes on the pads themselves don’t matter in this case, as the oscillators just play the frequencies they’re set to, modulated by how you play the pads. So in essence, it’s more like having a set of 8 controllers like that hardware one (Expressive-E Touché), one for each of Fundamental's oscillators, rather than a “standard” MPE keyboard.

Thanks, definitely time to revisit the mpe section of the manual, cheers!

That is though different for what I've been looking for, which is a an AUv3 controller with 8 sliders that can vary the frequency of each oscillator without any stepping.

bsantoro

I don’t remember seeing this video from 8 years ago!

Gavinski

@bsantoro said:
I don’t remember seeing this video from 8 years ago!

Great vid. Basically another app overlooked by most of the community because the manual was too long 😅. I continue to dig through and am determined to master it

Telefunky

You don‘t have to use it every day and on everything.
But it‘s one of those IOS classics that are invaluable to have around if you need them.

espiegel123

@Gavinski said:

That is though different for what I've been looking for, which is a an AUv3 controller with 8 sliders that can vary the frequency of each oscillator without any stepping.

If you host loopy pro, you can do that. I believe the scaling bug for sliders needing logarithmic response was fixed.

Gavinski

Thank you Ed 🙏,

I know it was fixed but I still found the response at the low end of the oscillators lacking. You can try it yourself - better off just using the oscillator in Fundamental itself, actually has much more control of the lower range. Is there anything I can do to change the response curve in Loopy?

@espiegel123 said:

@Gavinski said:

That is though different for what I've been looking for, which is a an AUv3 controller with 8 sliders that can vary the frequency of each oscillator without any stepping.

If you host loopy pro, you can do that. I believe the scaling bug for sliders needing logarithmic response was fixed.

espiegel123

@Gavinski said:
Thank you Ed 🙏,

I know it was fixed but I still found the response at the low end of the oscillators lacking. You can try it yourself - better off just using the oscillator in Fundamental itself, actually has much more control of the lower range. Is there anything I can do to change the response curve in Loopy?

@espiegel123 said:

@Gavinski said:

That is though different for what I've been looking for, which is a an AUv3 controller with 8 sliders that can vary the frequency of each oscillator without any stepping.

If you host loopy pro, you can do that. I believe the scaling bug for sliders needing logarithmic response was fixed.

If you think the scaling is still amiss, please let Michael know. I don’t own Fundamental. So I can’t compare the scaling.

You can adjust the range of the sliders. you may find that adjusting the slider parameters to the range of frequencies of interest helps. In Drambo you can do more shaping of response curves.

Gavinski

@espiegel123 said:

@Gavinski said:
Thank you Ed 🙏,

I know it was fixed but I still found the response at the low end of the oscillators lacking. You can try it yourself - better off just using the oscillator in Fundamental itself, actually has much more control of the lower range. Is there anything I can do to change the response curve in Loopy?

@espiegel123 said:

@Gavinski said:

That is though different for what I've been looking for, which is a an AUv3 controller with 8 sliders that can vary the frequency of each oscillator without any stepping.

If you host loopy pro, you can do that. I believe the scaling bug for sliders needing logarithmic response was fixed.

If you think the scaling is still amiss, please let Michael know. I don’t own Fundamental. So I can’t compare the scaling.

You can adjust the range of the sliders. you may find that adjusting the slider parameters to the range of frequencies of interest helps. In Drambo you can do more shaping of response curves.

I know you can adjust slider range. I’ll send Michael an email, thanks, good idea.