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Drum apps (and other app sequencers) - no triplets?
I’m really new to this (iOS music production), so dope-slaps welcomed.
But I’ve been quite frustrated that the sequencers built into some apps seem to approach rhythm from an odd place, or maybe I’m just not getting it…
As a multi-instrumentalist which includes drums, I keep trying to approach sequencing via the “conventional” viewpoint of subdivision of measures, then subdivisions of beats within the measure. I also have a predilection for progressive rock & jazz, both of which don’t shy away from odd time signatures, particularly triplets. I also do a fair bit of rudimental drumming (think drum corp or drum line marching-band stuff) that extensively uses both 8th- and 16th-note triplets in 2/4, 6/8 and 4/4 time signatures.
I have been incredibly impressed with 4pockets’ products - until I get to the sequencers. As soon as I try to create something using the sequencers in DigiStix 2 or Progressions using 8th-note triplets (each quarter-note is subdivided into three) whether in 4/4 or 3/4 time, everything goes south. The sequencer is no longer aligning with the external clock (I’m using AUM) and the grids no longer reflect full measures. I have spent hours trying to tweak the various settings to get the sequencer to accurately reproduce things like jazz grooves or shuffles without success. It almost seems that this extremely common rhythmic pattern is just not supported. In looking in the App Store, or searching on YouTube for info on AUV3 drum machine apps I find highly-rated apps that lock the user into 16 steps per measure - a limitation that makes triplets or even 3/4 time impossible. Note that 4/4 triplets are sometimes notated as 12/8, a dodge that isn’t available - DigiStix 2 in its list of time signatures ignores 12/8 completely, and locks the user into 12 steps for 3/4 time, so that the 9 steps needed for 3/4 time 8th-note triplets (All Blues by Miles Davis a perfect example) just can’t be done.
Atom 2 can handle any rhythmic idea you can throw at it - ya want 7/8 in 16th-note triplets? No problem.
I’ll also note that Patterning 2 is a bit quirky in how it presents rhythms, but I can, with a little effort & experimentation, produce 3/4 and 4/4 time triplets. Unfortunately it doesn’t support AUV3 and it’s drum kit editing and creation aren’t as good as those in DigiStix 2. At least I can drive DigiStix from Atom 2, but that’s not an option for Progressions which has a fabulous song sequencer that just doesn’t support complex rhythms.
So…am I missing something here, or is the market these apps are aimed at just not that big on anything other than 4/4 and 16th notes?
Thanks!
Comments
You're right. A good deal of iOS production tools are aimed at club and dance music or DJ stuff, not really for musical experimentation. But with a little extra work, it's possible to get around many of the limitations introduced by available software. We don't yet have the equivalent "Logic for iPad", but it might be coming eventually.
Yeah, it’s an annoying limitation and all too common. The related problem—in that rhythm and intonation are the same physical phenomenon—is apps with only a small set of scales, no user scales, and everything in 12et only.
Tuplets are usually easier to play live with MIDI (with quantization turned off). Not something that is common in more traditional sequencers, and more likely to be found in a piano roll.
If you can convince a developer that a drum sequencer that supports 12 slots per beat (DAW pulse) would be huge since 12 is the smallest common denominator for 1/3rd and 1/4th and you get 1/6th in the bargain. Creative gui’s to clean up the clutter would a nice differentiator if 3 or more developers all attack the problem.
Personally I like to make drum patterns in Mozaic which lets to set PPQN’s (Pulses Per Quarter Note) from 1 to something very large… I haven’t tested that limit.
So I create a script with a PPQN knob and select 2 to 12 PPQN choices. Then I run multiple instances for poly rhythms like 3:4 or even cutting edge 5:7 shit. Add a knob for note and a way to set patterns from PPQN choices and you can run an instance per kit instrument (snare, bass drum, hats open, hats closed). Creating composite patterns can be complex but just tweaking knobs to taste is also fun. I’m thinking about making a master script with pattern knobs for the whole kit. Setting up in an AUM template or project saves a lot of set up.
Lately I started to consider grace notes to create patterns like JD or Louis Cole. But my scripts are handmade and end up with an extreme learning curve.
For out of the box solutions the LUMBeats apps are simply amazing simulating great drummers in all the major genres.
I have a DMachine script on Patchstorage for Mozaic that implements many of these ideas. Run 4 copies for the traditional rock kit and more for jazz ride. But the included sets of patterns is limited because no one uses these scripts so I make them for the joy of creating.
I know that something other than 4/4 does seem rare in my EDM collection, but it it also seems that some pretty great EDM grooves can be created using triplets. This is one I whipped up the other day.
I can live with 12et!
I guess it kinda shocks me that someone who cranks out the great stuff that Paul/4pockets does can't handle what is pretty simple, and generally, outside of club & dance, pretty common. I was hoping to maybe progress to putting together some tracks of EDM myself, but incorporating some "conventional" elements to differentiate it a bit from the same old same old. Not suggesting that 4/4 16ths are serious limitations - Deadmau5, LTJ Bukem, Nightmares on Wax, Underworld and others that I listen to a lot certainly don't find it restrictive!! But as I've mentioned to my drum teacher - sometimes I think my heart beats in triplets!
Progressions in particular was a disappointment. It's such a great "test bed" to come up against this when trying to actually construct a song.
Thanks for the feedback, folks. I was thinking that maybe I was too dense to find the hidden button or option in these apps, but I'm gathering this is just a limitation based on the targeted user base. I think that folks creating EDM are missing a bet by ignoring triplets. I mean, blues & jazz started out as dance music, and like Ella said - don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!!
the lack of triplet support has been a head scratcher to me. It isn't like triplets are exotic.
IKR? That's why I was so surprised to see these otherwise outstanding apps fall down when it gets to this.
Hi Steve, yes you are missing DrumPerfect Pro ( DPP ) which has all the features you request.
Time signatures from 1 up to 32 beats ( 3/4, 7/8, 15/4, 12/8, 27/16 .....really anything )
Beat subdivision: 1 to 16, so any tuplet up to 16. Triplets are just as easy to program as 8 notes or16th notes.
If you wish you can have in a pattern with 1st beat subdivided in 4, 2nd beat in 3 ( triplet ), 3rd beat in 6,7,8 or 9 and so on.
There is a bank of 64 patterns and each can have its own time signature and BPM which mean that a song/track can have any change at any time. A recordable song tempo track is also available which allows for precise speed up and slow down anywhere in the song.
Since you are a musician ( DrumPerfect Pro is made by musicians for musicians ) you may want to know that DPP features both advanced Humanizer as well as Smart Swing.
And still in the field of rhythm/timing it offers a flexible time shift ( per drum stroke! ) and a Tempo layer for experimental grooves like changing the tempo inside a pattern ( at the stroke level! ) yet keeping the length of the main BPM. ( Strokes timing become "elastic" ).
What else relevant to mention? Ah, yes, it is Auv3 under the form of an advanced player with multi out, you can use your own samples, use the stock kits or go for IAP packs ( multi patterns, songs, samples, kits per pack ) in any of the 16 available styles you wish.
The level of customization within the sequencer is to be found in the kit/samples, the export view and the mixer view.
It requires a bit of learning curve though. Like any real instrument.
Last but not least, the next update will bring a B_I_G change to DPP. iOS musicians/drummers be warned ;-)
Listen to it here:
https://soundcloud.com/user-45973677
The laziness - or lack of imagination - towards offering the user a decent set of scales in most midi apps hugely pisses me off. Not hard at all to offer users a better array of scale choices in most cases
DPP busy in a musical context...
Being unable to draw in a mixture of note lengths was my big comedown with the Drambo piano roll update. I figure it will get added at some point so I am happy to wait.
I sent your message to Paul, 4Pockets dev earlier, this was his reply:
Due to the fact DigiStix2 is a step-based sequencer (like many electronic drum machines TR808 etc.) and not MIDI based (like Atom), its ability to deal with triples is limited. While it does include an ability to lay triplets, it only allows you to specify an even number due to the way it forces notes to a grid. I always recommend people drive DS2 using an external sequencer if you don’t want to be limited by the patterns, it is easy enough, and most people prefer to use the app this way.
Doesn't Perc Synth had a sequencer with triplets as MidiAU?
Xequence is a great sequencer for rhythm and the only one I found where the 6/8 and 12/8 are correctly implemented to the pulse, it also has decent swing
Yes - I've driven DigiStix2 with Atom2. Works fine, so that is indeed a perfectly acceptable work-around. My big disappointment at the moment is with Progressions. Such a great tool, but its song sequencer seems to suffer the same limitations. Progressions can export a song as a .MID file, which I could then import into something like Atom2 for further editing which could save some work. Since this was how I envisioned eventually using Progressions - to "rough in" the harmonic ideas, then export - that is certainly acceptable, but I haven't played with that yet, and anticipate changing the rhythmic elements (time signature, beat subdivisions) could create a lot of "clean-up!"
Thanks for passing that question along to Paul for his input!!
@Gilbert - thanks for the recommendation. Looks to be a viable option, though TBH for drums specifically, the Atom2/DigiStix combo can do the trick for me. I'm not a professional so a lot of DPP's features might be way beyond my needs. Being new to all of this I was just repeatedly running up against this rhythmic limitation, and was wondering if this is just kinda the way things are in this space. Note my comment above wrt Progressions. It's not possible (nor does it make sense, really) to "drive" Progressions from an external sequencer. Its built-in song sequencer is one of its most useful features, second only to the generation of the "chord palette" which is brilliant. Just really frustrating to bump up against what for musicians is a fairly basic capability, but given the foundational legacy of a step-based sequencer, I guess it's kinda painted itself into a corner.