Buying apps direct from developer?

fornax55

Is this a feasible thing? I figure it would vary from developer to developer. I didn’t realize you could get apps from alternate sources until Mathew so generously offered assistance with LoopyPro so I could at least learn to make dank loops while eating oatmeal for 3 meals a day.

Asking because I’m extremely unimpressed with how apple has been handling refunds lately, continuing to refuse refunds on apps that legitimately don’t work as well as a pro features upgrade mistakenly bought for an app I don’t even have installed. Basically I’m wanting to withdraw my support from them and the only way I really support them anyways is with the whopping 30% commission they take from apps.

That said it’s probably a lot cheaper to buy them direct too. But sometimes it’s not easy to find the developers’ info. Anyone have luck?

Edit: oh god save me from myself. I’m a compulsive finger drummer and just found out what Impaktor does right after writing this and impulse bought it. But I’m not going to pay for drambo without at least seeing if the dev will take a direct payment

espiegel123

As far as I know, it isn’t possible on a non-jail broken to side load apps to bypass the App Store for true development releases.

Did Michael perhaps enroll you in the testflight beta distribution?

wim

Developers can supply a limited number of codes for people to install an app for free. I'm guessing that's what Michael supplied to you. Developers are prohibited from selling those codes.

There's no way to sell iOS apps direct at this time. (At least not for non-jailbroken devices.)

The Apple commission has been 15%, not 30%, for virtually all developers for some years now if that makes you feel any better.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

wim

@ehehehe said:
Desktop has what you want.

At many times the price point. Maybe not so attractive when one is surviving off of eating oatmeal.

[Deleted User]

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AudioGus

@wim said:

@ehehehe said:
Desktop has what you want.

At many times the price point.

...and a whole lot of kick ass free stuff that would cost a lot more to match on iOS.

wim

@ehehehe said:

@wim said:

@ehehehe said:
Desktop has what you want.

At many times the price point. Maybe not so attractive when one is surviving off of eating oatmeal.

There is also piracy available, which goes perfectly with oatmeal. And heaps of freeware. App store wont go away.

[Deleted User]

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Telefunky

Applies to paid ware, too. Just look at Plugin Boutique‘s list of reduced stuff...

Gavinski

@winconway said:

@AudioGus said:

@wim said:

@ehehehe said:
Desktop has what you want.

At many times the price point.

...and a whole lot of kick ass free stuff that would cost a lot more to match on iOS.

Yep, the iOS is cheaper thing is total nonsense.

True.... But at least devs are getting paid.

espiegel123

@winconway said:

@AudioGus said:

@wim said:

@ehehehe said:
Desktop has what you want.

At many times the price point.

...and a whole lot of kick ass free stuff that would cost a lot more to match on iOS.

Yep, the iOS is cheaper thing is total nonsense.

Except it’s not.

knewspeak

@espiegel123 said:

@winconway said:

@AudioGus said:

@wim said:

@ehehehe said:
Desktop has what you want.

At many times the price point.

...and a whole lot of kick ass free stuff that would cost a lot more to match on iOS.

Yep, the iOS is cheaper thing is total nonsense.

Except it’s not.

Sometimes it is cheaper on iOS, sometimes not, sometimes Desktop software can be re-sold, it’s generally cheaper on iOS.

Gavinski

If you're paying for software, iOS is always cheaper. Name a single app that is the same price or higher on iOS, compared to desktop.

If downloading cracked apps etc, another story entirely.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

espiegel123

@winconway : sorry, all those words you wrote , in my opinion, to “it is rubbish to say iOS software is less expensive than desktop software”

There may be cases where it is not true but that doesn’t make it rubbish.

fornax55

Re: pricing -
That is interesting, I’ve always thought of iOS as cheaper - and I think it will be once I actually go commercial and sell stuff & have to bump my PC DAWs to more legit versions - but for the time being I do spend a lot more on iOS apps than I do on PC. Largely thanks to there usually being some similar version of VST for what I need on sale for ridiculously cheap on PluginBoutique

Re: piracy, this whole thread was about making sure devs get their money lol. But, since…

@espiegel123 said:
As far as I know, it isn’t possible on a non-jail broken to side load apps to bypass the App Store for true development releases.

Did Michael perhaps enroll you in the testflight beta distribution?

Yeah he did, the angel. Although I’m not sure if it is a permanent thing; I’m plagued by the worry that I won’t be able to top the learning curve before the program before it expires

So what’s up with those alternatives app stores? I’ve had app valley installed for sometime and I can’t seem to wrap my head around it, all the links I click to just direct me back to the App Store. Wtf is the point in an alternative App Store that links you to apple’s?

either way, if it is possible to pirate Apple apps. Doesn’t that mean that people have the app files chilling somewhere waitinng to be redistributed? Couldn’t devs do the same and just sell em?

@wim said:
Developers can supply a limited number of codes for people to install an app for free. I'm guessing that's what Michael supplied to you. Developers are prohibited from selling those codes.

There's no way to sell iOS apps direct at this time. (At least not for non-jailbroken devices.)

The Apple commission has been 15%, not 30%, for virtually all developers for some years now if that makes you feel any better.

Cool about the commission. So what’s stopping devs from taking direct payments for those? Fear of the Undercover Appleman seeking out people sidestepping their royalties?

wim

[Disclaimer: I haven't spent a lot of time fact checking what I wrote below. I may have misstated a few technical details. I'm sure others will shine a spotlight on any errors as they always do, which is good.
Directionally it should be close though.]

@fornax55 said:
So what’s up with those alternatives app stores? I’ve had app valley installed for sometime and I can’t seem to wrap my head around it, all the links I click to just direct me back to the App Store. Wtf is the point in an alternative App Store that links you to apple’s?

I had not heard of App Valley before this. It's misusing certificates meant for distributing apps legally purchased by enterprises.

AppValley is among several services that violate enterprise developer certificates from Apple. The terms under which these are granted make clear that they are for companies who wish to distribute apps to their employees. AppValley uses these certificates to distribute software directly to non-employees, thereby bypassing the AppStore.

.

either way, if it is possible to pirate Apple apps. Doesn’t that mean that people have the app files chilling somewhere waitinng to be redistributed? Couldn’t devs do the same and just sell em?

Not legally. And if caught they would lose their developer license with Apple, limiting their distribution to those non-compliant channels ... most of which I'm pretty sure very few people know about and would trust even if they did.

@wim said:
Developers can supply a limited number of codes for people to install an app for free. I'm guessing that's what Michael supplied to you. Developers are prohibited from selling those codes.

There's no way to sell iOS apps direct at this time. (At least not for non-jailbroken devices.)

The Apple commission has been 15%, not 30%, for virtually all developers for some years now if that makes you feel any better.

Cool about the commission. So what’s stopping devs from taking direct payments for those? Fear of the Undercover Appleman seeking out people sidestepping their royalties?

Yes. And the potential of losing their developer license. Oh, and just maybe not wanting to break the law. Some people are like that. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I think the number of codes is limited as well. But I could be wrong on that score.

wim

Apps need to be digitally signed with an encrypted certificate tied to some account in order to run. So an "apk" (iOS app installation file) just sitting around will do no-one any good.

These "alternative" app stores have found a way to distribute apps that are signed in such way that they can be distributed outside the App Store. I'm not sure if that means they could be installed on any device without the enablement of that App Store. I think probably not.

I'm also guessing that when you're redirected to the Apple App Store from that app, it means they don't have a purchased "enterprise" version signed in such a way that they can distribute it.

Face it, Apple has the App Store tied up tighter than a gnat's ass.

IMO you're wasting your time trying to find a way around the App Store just to save a few bucks. It will never, ever be worth the insecurity, lost time, probable missed updates, and dubious legality. But that's just my opinion.

AlmostAnonymous

@wim, most of those alternative app stores (not cydia) install a profile, which adds your device to an mdm. Which then signs things, sometimes as in house apps, and can use the appstore as distribution.
I use an MDM and apple business for my personal devices. It automatically distributes and install about 40 “must have on all my devices” apps. I tear open the shrink wrap of a new device, connect to wifi, and then they just go straight to the Home Screen and start auto setting themselves up.

Usually when I’m trying to turn someone on to expensive plugs/apps, I’ll enroll their device in my mdm for them to try it out.

(it is more expensive this way with an mdm and I have to purchase multiple copies of apps)

But yeah…I wouldn’t be adding;g rando profiles from rando places just for apps…you never know what control you gave up. People who do that live in crazy town. Not to save me 5$ here and there.

@fornax55 so with my above mdm…I always ask developers if they wanna do a bulk purchase. Not 1 has agreed. And I dont blame em.

Will

@wim said:

Cool about the commission. So what’s stopping devs from taking direct payments for those? Fear of the Undercover Appleman seeking out people sidestepping their royalties?

Yes. And the potential of losing their developer license. Oh, and just maybe not wanting to break the law. Some people are like that. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Also, hassle. You'd have to set up a payment system and a distribution system (with an update system and maybe an IAP system)... 15% is worth all that mess for most developers. Maybe less worth it for, say, Epic Games but I doubt there are any music app developers with even a tenth of their user base.

Strizbiz

@winconway said:

@AudioGus said:

@wim said:

@ehehehe said:
Desktop has what you want.

At many times the price point.

...and a whole lot of kick ass free stuff that would cost a lot more to match on iOS.

Yep, the iOS is cheaper thing is total nonsense.

For me personally it’s been cheaper than desktop but definitely won’t be for too much longer if everything starts being subscription based, then we’re going to be paying for apps indefinitely. Subscriptions might not be bad if you’re only paying for a few but for some they can definitely add up, imaging paying for a hundred or more subscriptions a month 🤦🏽‍♂️

Gavinski

@winconway said:
Absolute nonsense, you are comparing like for like, so if a developer releases a plugin on desktop and iOS, then iOS is cheaper, that does not mean as a whole it is cheaper, again that is complete and absolute nonsense.

Related

1 It is cheaper because the marketplace demands it is cheaper, otherwise it will not sell because there is so much other rubbish at those cheap prices, rubbish that is bought, used once and then forgotten about, because, it is rubbish, that is the mindset of the majority of the iOS market, and generally that equals very little support needed "Who gives a sh*t, it cost £2" ethos.

2 A base model ipad with 64gb of storage is £319, are you even kidding me, £319 on a desktop computer is going to get you a much heavier featured desktop OS with real file structure, a bigger drive, more RAM, much better connectivity (Shall i really continue here, because if we compare second hand prices a £50 desktop is going to make a £50 second hand iPad look ridiculous) just because an app is cheap/cheaper, does not mean that working in iOS is cheaper, especially when iOS has very little payware that can even compete with desktops freeware or open source offerings.
(And now lets get the gaslighting replies "But I don't want to use a desktop OS" etc etc etc, which have absolutely nothing to do with which is actually cheaper, just personal choice)

Unrelated

1 There are very few audio developers actually "Getting paid" on iOS, go look at the whole mess that is Nanostudio 2, a standout app that is head and shoulders above some of the other rubbish, and simply will not be getting updates because the developer can not afford to fund users, yes there are one or two lucky developers who made enough to survive, but those are few and far between, the rest have jobs that pay their bills and iOS coding is a hobby.

2 Yes but "no piracy" actually FXPansion covered the piracy thing in much more detail than we can go in to here, but reality is that on desktop software has a price and life cycle and common userbase, here is an example of how it works.....

A ) Any new release will garner sales within the first two months, after that it falls off a cliff and will only get minimal sales here and there, piracy has little to nothing at all to do with this and that has been proven time and time again, price structuring generally follows this model now too, first few months is premium cost, then you will see it boil down to very little and generally end up in one the budget software marketplaces, that is unless is is a super premium product in the much higher cost tiers.

B ) There are two types of crack users, the most common is collectors "Look what I have" and then there are simple users, generally that can not afford to buy, when they do buy, what do you think they are doing, running a crack of Fruity loops but when they finally purchase they are going and buying Cubase, nope., they buy fruity.
Piracy on desktop is blown way way way out of proportion, a lot of developers are now saying this, if you have a product that is wanted, then it will sell for that initial period., freeware and opensource is so strong on desktop now that in most instances now it is the former "Look what I have" crack users, and they will never buy anything anyway.

C ) Erm yes actually there is piracy on iOS, less common with audio software because there is little kudos in that, but games etc, oh yes there is piracy, lets not fall for Apples BS on that, jailbreaking very much exists and so does piracy.

Here is a quick question, how man full time audio developers on iOS vs how many full time audio developers in the budget end of the desktop world?

This reply was a bit unnecessarily aggressive, but you make some interesting points. Nevertheless my original comment only related to direct comparison of price of actually buying an app on iOS vs buying it on desktop
.