Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
MIDI clock sync with other hardware for jamming
Hi!
I know this question repeats occasionally, but I went through some discussions and haven't find exactly the answers I am looking for.
The background: I am going to have some jamming session with friends, me on iPad, they're mostly using hardware like Octatrack, Roland drum machines, etc... All of them with MIDI out/in ports, so they can sync basically the standard hardware way (although no one has some MIDI hub or any more sophisticated MIDI sync solution, so they rely on simply chaining MIDI cables via MIDI thru outputs).
My first question is: How I'd best sync my iPad with them? Software is not much question, but I primarily use Drambo, but I'd anyway use either AUM or Audiobus and sync it via Ableton Link (internally within single iPad), so I can use also some of these to send / receive MIDI clock (or any other app if needed).
Unfortunately, my audio interface has no MIDI connectivity, so I need to buy some extra device. I am also willing to maybe go for some more sophisticated solution, e.g. some standalone MIDI hub, but I wasn't very successful in finding some suitable products.
The second question is: Do you have some recommended setup? For example, I am curious on whether it makes sense to be a master or slave in such setup? I know software always have hard times syncing MIDI clock, but not sure if that means it's better to be master (so the software does not need to sync itself) or rather a slave (so you avoid some jitter issues that software MIDI clock is known for).
I remember I have seen an app some time ago that was supposed to "clean" the MIDI clock output to avoid jitter as much as possible, but can't find it now.
In general, if you have any experience, tested setup, devices etc, I'd be happy to hear all the information.
Thank you!
Comments
I could recommend a few things because I've worked a lot with clock sync and LINK.
First of all, consider buying Bluetooth MIDI dongles instead of a wired MIDI interface. As long as you're only transmitting clock sync and not much more, they will work well and reliably, plus you can connect multiple BT MIDI dongles to your iDevice.
As for syncing with apps, there are apps that work well with clock sync and others that don't, also some can slave to MIDI clock and others cannot.
Whenever you're planning your setup, alos consider apps like the former app "MIDI Link Sync" or the current "Link to MIDI" app to convert LINK to MIDI clock with positive and negative offset correction (very important because you'll want to freely choose audio buffer sizes with the iOS app of your choice).
Apps that run well with MIDI clock sync are Groove Rider GR-16, Drambo, Loopy HD, Loopy Pro, Audiobus and Beatmaker 3 for example.
Apps supporting LINK usually all work well because they're using the same library from Ableton but they usually don't support instant start upon hitting play.
What @rs2000 said, at least the middle part where he mentions Midi Link Sync &
Link to Midi by alexandernaut I think both are free.
Midimitter might help too
Couple more possible options… I couldn’t find midi link sync.
Midi Sweet Clock Sync
MidiPace
MidiBus
Maybe MidiFire too
The one you’re talking about at the end there, to clean the midi clock and avoid jitter is MidiPace, I think, see link in my previous post.
I've found AudioBus is the best MIDI in handler by far. It's the only one that does a good job at smoothing jitter. It has adjustable clock offset per source, and it handles MID to Link conversion.
Do the Link to Midi apps work via Bluetooth? Do you just launch the app, join a session via Link and then it will transmit the relevant midi clock to a Bluetooth dongle in the area - Is this how it works?
Not sure if Link to MIDI can connect to BT MIDI on its own, you might need to launch one of the helper apps to connect and make the BT MIDI port available to Link2MIDI.
Also, if you have BT MIDI dongles from Quicco, you'll have to activate MIDI clock transmission by sending them a sysex message, already posted here on the forum.
Thanks 👍
I made this suggestion to try to someone else to consider on another thread. Does anyone know if this works? Korg Synkontrol into a midi modded Korg Volca (viaClock Sync In). Then Volca midi clock out via mod - therefore in time with Link. Does this work?
Oh does it actually do that?
Last time I tested clock with most apps I have they were all the same. (Patterning 2, Audiobus, Drambo etc.)
Drambo and Audiobus can offset but there was still jitter.
If the incoming clocks are very jittery, there are probably limits to how much can be eliminated.
Yep.
In my tests, Audiobus was way more stable than anything else. Of course, I was mainly testing with fairly solid hardware midi and over USB. Everything but Audiobus had terrible jitter. Audiobus had a little, but even that would typically settle down over time. Even clock over BLE Midi wasn't bad.
I should go back and test again some time, keeping better track of the results. I didn't test Loopy Pro, which will be interesting since it's the same developer.
2nd edit : Midi Link Sync always works best for me & allows non 4/4 (1-16 beat per bar)but no longer seems available - Link to Midi seems closest alternative but no time Sig variations .
It seems Audiobus also has no Time Signature variations ? , so only 4/4 ?
Thank you all for great suggestions!
I am now wondering which wireless MIDI solution to buy, I quite like CME WIDI Master (https://www.cme-pro.com/widi-master/ ), but I am a bit hesitant about potential incompatibility with devices without that 5V/3.3V powered MIDI ports. I wonder how common it is? Tried to briefly check some devices but couldn't even find this information it in their manuals...
@rs2000 @wim @Poppadocrock - you seem to work with some hardware, do you have experience with such self-powered WIDI solutions? Can you tell if it's common for MIDI ports to be powered? I.e. if it's 5-pin, it always have some power, but MIDI trough jack connector doesn't? In that case, I'd be OK with that, there's usually always some device that has 5-pin and can be master.
Also still curious about whether it's better to be a master or slave in such setup?
Whether to be master or slave depends tons on what apps you would be running as slaves. And what the MIDI devices are. You may need to do some trial and error.
MIDI Clock has no concept of time signatures. Neither do Link, but it has a concept of "sync quantum" (often one bar, or one cycle of N bars).
It's hard to say without details of apps and hardware, but generally, it seems like setup is a lot simpler if the iOS device is the master rather than trying to get a stable setup as the slave. But it seems to be common that people prefer to have a hardware master. I'm not sure why that is.
My opinions aren't worth a whole heck of a lot because they're based mostly on what I've read here over the years rather than a lot of direct experience.
@skrat If your MIDI port doesn't provide enough voltage like most (all?) Faderfox products for example then you'll have issues with all BT MIDI dongles, no matter if it's a Quicco, a Yamaha or a CME.
I would not want to send clock over bluetooth/wireless. I would choose iOS to be the master in most situations though some hardware is much better as a master instead of slave.
@BroCoast Have you done it?
It works very well over BT here but in venues with many people using BT or WiFi, wireless can be problematic indeed.
The thing is that I would like a solution for all possible cases. Since it happens to me surprisingly often that some group of friends gather, bring some hardware and want to jam, but you never know in advance who will bring what, so I'd like to be always able to sync. In hardware world, you usually only need enough MIDI cables
With iPad, I still think the best solution would be to use some extra interface, just for MIDI connectivity. I was thinking also about switching the audio interface, but there are several reasons to keep the current one and I think MIDI connectivity can be added this way.
So now I'm more inclined to something like this: https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigmidi2/
The only thing is I hope the USB hub and CCK combo will handle it. I already have there audio interface + MIDI controller (+ another controller via BT). This is why wireless solution was quite appealing to me, just it's not optimal if I won't be sure if it can cover most of the cases.
@skrat The faderfoxes are really the only ones in my collection that don't work. A safer solution might be a MIDI Thru box to "amplify" the MIDI port voltage so it will work with the BT dongles.