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100 percent agreed
...> @Samu said:
Nothing is assured. Companies reconsider their expenditures, developers decide they want out of the development rat race, platforms change priorities… A company as big as Apple has even dropped development of some of their own apps, so I guess the takeaway is that we should use what we need while we have it. 🤷🏽♂️
Maxing out DSP% perhaps? Recording a lot of tracks at the same time? Just trying to figure out how to reproduce this, if possible.
I’m not assuming anything. I know how marketing works. I am merely questioning if the iOS music community puts pressure on devs to have sales on what are already cheap apps and if that could be a part of the discussion of the subject of this thread. Merely discussing things. I’m not trying to win an argument.
Could be true. I’d like to hear more devs say that. And actual “real world figures”. Yet still there is a bit of perceived need to help devs to start this thread and for a good amount of people to discuss it. You saying that basically because sales exist, they must not be part of a possible problem. I think in this low-price iOS app platform a way to squeeze a bit more funding for apps is to not have them on sale. How about honest pricing and considerate consuming? It would seem I am crazy for thinking such a thing. Oh well. I guess there is no problem and therefore the devs are thriving.
No offense taken, so please take none from me. I believe in free speech and democracy (a family member having been on the original Mayflower trip to N America). I am excercising free speech and so are you. What I am suggesting is entiry the opposite of what CCP & USSR (they basically are still the same) do. I make a suggestion that we could democratically decide to not post on the Sales threads and maybe even ask Jonathan to take it down. Conversely devs could argue for it if in fact it is useful tool for their marketing. You know - a conversation. People in China & Russia are not exactly encouraged to have free open discussions, so I think your analogy was wrong and borders on rude, but I will assume you didn’t mean to be rude and I will not take offense.
If this aspect of the discussion on this thread is a ‘not open for discussion’ sorta thing, I’m OK with dropping it.
No, not at all. That’s the frustrating thing - everything seems perfectly ok, until I check Audioshare for the recording, otherwise I’d stop. Nothing there but when I then try again with the same setup, it’s usually recorded fine.
I haven’t recorded anything for a while, but next time it happens I’ll try and note what my setup was, and see if there’s a .raw file saved.
A rescue.raw file should only be created if AUM crashed before it finished recording. Sometimes it finds other temporary files created by iOS itself and thinks it might be lost recordings though. But yes, please let me know if you still see issues with this. Naturally I want my users to be able to rely on AUM actually saving the recordings being made!
I’ve had recordings fail in AUM, but only when I’ve tried recording audio while also screen recording a session. This has only happened on my iPad (6th gen), and not on my phone (SE2020). Haven’t done any specific troubleshooting, but my guess would be that’s because the phone is locked to 48kHz sample rate (ie video standard), and most of my projects are 44.1 on the iPad. This may, obviously, be a completely different problem, so ignore if it’s not helpful.
I don't think sample rate is related, since AUM always runs at the current native hardware sample rate. However, screen/video recording uses a lot of flash disk bandwidth, so that might be the reason it would fail: the hardware can't keep up with writing a bunch of audio tracks and a video stream to disk at the same time.
That's precisely the part where we disagree. Not posting and not reading others' posts about sales is cool, that's free choice etc. However, asking Michael to not let anyone else post and read that stuff either because a majority "democratically decided" that noone should, well not so much. I mean, say there's only one guy keeping a thread and two others left reading it because the rest of us want to pay full price all the time -why not let them have their own free choice? What harm can they do?
That being said, I do support your right to make this suggestion, and thanks also for your reply, which was much more civilised than my original sarcasm.
Create an API or framework to allow any dev to rapidly port to VST.
Better yet, something to allow a desktop VST user to open compatible iOS apps.
It's fine with me if the VST has only a subset of iOS features. But it would be great if I knew my iOS sounds could be available via DAWs on my desktop.
My other wish is for a more common framework for MIDI controllers. I lose a lot of interest with any MIDI learn.
Maybe Roland or Arturia could do something with a basic MIDI controller for iOS that is so good and compatible with their iOS and VSTs. Yet open for other devs to use it.
I think this all boils down back to marketing 101…
“If you can’t be seen or heard you simply don’t exist!”
No matter how good the app is, if people don’t know about it they can’t buy it.
The post-release marketing of most apps is less than zero so how can they expect to sell more if they don’t do active marketing?!
Man... AUM must be pretty rock solid if a casual comment about a problem leads the developer to puzzle over a potential problem. Wait, I use AUM almost daily and only have problems I create myself like when I pushed my iPad too hard.
My takeaway from this discussion is the comment on screen size being the limiting factor for a professional production environment... maybe a windowing capability that uses those "Minority Report"
gestures to zoom, slide, open/close views, etc.
True.
Myth #2: "Developers are a charity". No, they are a business. They sell you products.
As I’ve said, I’ve only seen a couple of others confirm the same issue, it’s not a problem for the majority.
But the issue doesn’t go away for me, just because you say it’s working fine for you. Just like problems I see on here reported with other apps that work fine for me, doesn’t mean they aren’t an issue for those users.
I understand your point but I wasn’t suggesting a complete ban on App Sale threads. I’m not into bans cancel culture or any of that. An experiment maybe? Maybe just a one-time thing as a test? It’s no skin off my back either way, but I haven’t read any ideas that seem like “a change is coming!”
There seems to be one big Sale Thread every year, and when I have looked at them (been a long time so maybe they have changed) the feel I got was “nudge nudge, wink wink, buy now while it’s on sale or wait until X when it is on sale.” It’s from the bargin hunters point of view, not devs posting “hey I’m having a sale, please check this out.” And it certainly doesn’t suggest “this is a high quality app we should support”, which realistically is covered in other threads. I’m not saying devs never post to Sale Threads, just that is not what I saw or remember. Shut it down for a while and see what happens. Revenue spike? Revenue dip? No noticeable change? I dunno, just saying maybe we discuss trying some things. Maybe there should be dedicated devs threads for marketing. None of my half-baked thoughts were intended as actionable plans - just a bit of brain storming to try to help the music app enviromnet on iOS. I’d hate to see it diminish and would like to see it grow more stable.
Oh, and at least your sarcasm gave me a giggle. 😁
Personally I tend to buy from sales, apps that I wouldn’t buy otherwise. They probably make up 75% of the apps I’ve purchased, represent a very large chunk of cash, and after a cursory drunken fiddle are never opened again.
The other 25% are things I really do want, I ‘instabuy’ on release and they end up a proper part of my sonic arsenal, e.g. Fluss.
Stopping sales wouldn’t mean I’d buy more at full price, just that the 75% devs wouldn’t get my money. I’d probably put the heating on for a bit instead.
That makes sense, especially on what’s now an older iPad.
☝️ This.
Sales prompt me to invest in things that otherwise I’ve skipped because I’m not sure I’d use them enough to justify the cost. Without the sales, those purchases wouldn’t have been made, so it’s a win for the devs.
Some things are so obviously up my street that I barely hesitate (chalk up another for Fluss), unless they’re expensive, in which case I’ll check out the demos and reviews first, so I can make an informed decision.
I hate to admit it, but I am much more price sensitive than I’d like to think, and I have a real barrier at about £20, where the app would have to be something really special and super useful for me to consider it. Below £5-ish if it looks interesting I’ll often give something a whirl. I don’t seem to have quite the same issues with hardware, though I think I have a similar mental barrier at about £100, and anything above that needs a great deal of thinking about (because it probably means dipping into savings that I can probably not restore).
That said, if prices rose to desktop levels, I’d just have fewer apps, and I’m not sure that’d expand the market. Don’t think there are easy answers to this question.
All of us have probably bought many apps that were cheap enough for a brief play, then never used again. I’m not saying there isn’t room for that or cheap apps should go away.
I wish I could have saved those funds and bought more expensive apps that I would regularly use. I now rarely buy apps because of app glut on my iDevices. I think there is some relationship (not absolute) between our app-buying behavior and what we are likely to get more of. Buying $5 & under apps raises the AppStore ratings of those apps, which is good for them. I think there is room on the iOS platform for desktop-quality apps, but it seems like a hard thing to ask of devs when there seems to be a $20/£20/€20 (just wanted to use those symbols) price ceiling where the consumers balk. It is an oversimplification, but it seems that our niche community of $5 appaholics are lamenting why we don’t have Logic Pro or equivilants. We probably never will. Maybe there is room for some middle ground? I wouldn’t hesitate to pay $100 for my favorite iOS DAW to have all the features requsted. Maybe that’s just me.
We have Cubasis and Auria, and a whole bunch of beat-centres - probably most of us on here own at least several of these. As for pricing, I’ve spent more on the iOS version of Gadget, and it’s separate Gadgets, than the desktop price. I use AUM and Drambo, and the collective cost of apps I use within those probably adds up to more than I spent on Ableton Live.
If it’s good enough, people will buy it. If Apple want to beef up GarageBand into Logic Lite, no doubt most of us on here will buy that too. All I ask is that it’s reliable.
I’m not lamenting anything - I enjoy my Friday night fiver booze apps, and will carry on collecting the good stuff at full price.
Yep, I definitely worry about how the financial state of the world this coming few years will impact the ios music scene. Definitely not going to be pretty, imo, as I argued earlier. Might start making more sense for me to review old apps that everyone has instead of new ones that people can't afford. Hard times a-comin'
Sorry Gav - looks like I edited my comment there as you posted!
Yes definitely. I’m doing my accounts at the moment - less money coming in, while the money going out is soaring. There’ll be even less coming in next year, as my clients are suffering and cutting back too, a double whammy.
I’ve been exploring old apps - getting into Drambo at last, and no doubt I’ll try and learn how to use stuff like miRack properly too. I might even get round to making some music!
Everyone’s skint, next year is going to be tough, so definitely not a good time for app prices to rise.
If the prices of currently existing apps would get bumped it would have a negative impact especially if they are raised to 'desktop level' without being true 'desktop quality'.
Single plug-ins may be 'desk-top quality' yes, but what about the hosts?
iPadOS16.2 will drop pretty soon and that blows away the 'too small screen' argument.
What? a 4K display ain't enough for a DAW?
It's also interesting to see the development of Davinci Resolve for iPad which goes to show that if a company goes 'all in' everything is possible, yes, even on the iPad...
That’s one thing I disagree about. Not all of us are fussed about Logic Pro etc.
I like using my iPad precisely because it isn’t like using a desktop DAW. AUM lets me turn the whole device into a modular music making instrument with boundless possibilities. On the odd occasion I’ll record stems and bung them into MultiTrack DAW if I really have to, but mostly I mix to an output channel and record straight to stereo, and that’s it. Fantastically liberating, embracing imperfections. If I have more than 3 takes and I’m not happy with mistakes or what not, I take it as a sign I need to change something before spending more time on it.
Now, I fully appreciate that many/most people don’t work that way, and want more control and the editing/polishing you can get with a linear DAW, but I just found that a straightjacket. Logic Pro is the last thing I need!
I am minded of a discussion on one of MobileMusicPro ’s round tables, where Dean from Electronisounds said he couldn’t think of anything we’re really missing on iOS for music production. I agree with him. If you want a DAW, there are options, but for me the strength of the platform is that you can find whole other ways of working.
Following my own argument a little further, I don’t really get the fuss about wanting equivalence with desktop platforms. I mean, you could just buy a MacBook or whatnot and use a desktop platform. Why not embrace the strengths of iOS? Innovative interfaces, multitouch, superb app designers like Bram Bos and Erik Sigth (apologies to all the others I’ve not mentioned). And porting stuff from desktop is great, but if it’s not done well it can be a mess (eg the stuff about FabFilter controls).
So how does this play into the original question? Innovative apps that have well thought out touch interfaces, basically. Harder with effects, obviously - there’s a limit to how you can control a reverb, say, but even then, getting the basics right (eg controls you can change without obscuring the thing you’re altering) makes a huge difference. I can put up with imperfections in a low priced app, but if you’re going to charge desktop prices, I’d expect a proper touch interface, not just a mouse interface ported over, with microscopic controls that don’t work properly.
I think many of us are already maxing out the amount of money we're willing to put into apps, so the solution can't be to get us to spend more (won't happen), but rather to get more people into doing ios songwriting.
If prices would go up, I wouldn't spend more, I'd just buy fewer apps. Either I would spend as much, or maybe even less, but I def wouldn't spend more.
So I refuse to feel bad for taking advantage of sales, because it doesn't actually hurt the developers, no less money is spent, even if the funds possibly are allocated somewhat differently, with both winners and losers among the devs.
But really, the question is, how to get more people to ios. What is even the current statistics, isn't it growing? I would have guessed that it was.