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Controlling a Roland V Accordion via BT?
I'll try to explain as clearly as I can...
Roland , in their wisdom, did not include any physical footswitch sockets on the V-accordion range.
Simple controls like sustain and expression can be received vi the MIDI in ports, but ONLY as sysex data - which funnily enough is perfectly suited to their FC-300 controller, which weighs a ton and is huge!
Now there is a guy in the states who makes a much smaller pedal that does the job however with shipping it comes to near $900 AUD (in Oz) so out of the question.
So what to do?
Apparently the V Series can recognise both CC 64 and 11 via MIDI, but Local on must be set to off for this to work which of course, means no sound - sorta defeats the purpose right? They say it is designed so the V series can be used as a controller and they made it "dumb-proof" - Cynically? I think they did it on purpose to try and sell more product - anyhoo that's another story and not for here.
So question, how do I route MIDI note data along with the CC data back to the accordion without needing a PC and DAW. Enter CME and their WIDI devices.
The WIDI-Bud Pro has a rather clever soft thru function (via their WIDI-App) that will enable me to return note data to the Roland from the iPad with no other apps involved, neat! Yes, but NO other CC data can be transmitted as I cannot connect anything else.
I have the Boss EV-WL-1 Bluetooth Pedal and I can connect this to the iPad - all good there, but I cannot get it's data back to the Roland.
So long story short, does anyone have suggestions on how I can somehow link the EV and the WIDI Bud to the Roland so I can play it using both devices?
I have AUM, but cannot figure how to send MIDI data back out to the Roland (ideally via the single WIDI Bud device) I guess, by using AUM as a pseudo MIDI Router.
I also have a few WIDI-Master devices, but not sure if they will be of use.
Comments
I don't think it's necessary
Is the latency good ? I bet it's noticeable
I remember you from MX-Linux forum (AVL) , so I'll do my best to keep questions simple and structured
If 1 and 2 is "yes" then ,
puredata (Mobmuplat , PDParty) or streambyter (free) , or mozaic (paid)
( edit : you don't need to learn how to translate messages , many people use streambyter or mozaic and will help you )
Boss EV-WL-1 via BTmidi --> ipad --> CC to sysex-->BT output to V-Acc via plugged WIDI-Master dongles
Thanks - I'll have a look at that. I think I got Streambyter before but could not figure how to use it haha! Same with mozaic.
TBH I did think it SHOULD be that simple, but could not get it to work.
One thing I should make clearer, is there is no real need to convert to SYSEX, ad the V-Accordion will accept CC 64 /11 via MIDI in - it's just it only does this if local on is set to off...don't ask me it's the weirdest system I've come across!
So in theory all I'd need is the WIDIApp (which via it's soft thru - and very negligible latency) will send midi data back to the Roland, and a way to get the pedal data to go back to the Roland as well, as CC, which as I wrote it can see from MIDI in.
But converting to SysEx could simplify the rest, since you could leave Local On. And it would not be difficult. You could just post the required SysEx format and we could do it in StreamByter in a jiffy.
I was 101% that you will stick with this passthru thing , It completely doesn't make sense (for me)
I wanted to avoid going on circles for 10+ pages .....
The WIDI-Bud Pro is a usb dongle
https://www.cme-pro.com/product/widi-bud-pro/
it doesn't connect to V-Acc, and don't need to find out how you used it for connecting to the ipad (the ipad has BT dongle built in)
you'll need
you plug WIDI-Master to V-Acc , pair with the ipad , put V-Acc on local off
(I guess V-Acc is set correctly to NOT soft thru midi data else you would get feedback before and for sure after the next steps)
After pairing the WIDI-Master , also pair the Boss EV-WL-1
Done
In case you can enable an unknown "clever soft thru function" from WIDI-Master
and not WIDI-Bud Pro which is not used and hidden somewhere for the rest of this thread ,
skip step 4
Thanks for the other info - but on the Bud you are incorrect - I have been using the Bud to connect the accordion with apps on the iPad. In fact there are quite a few Roland v accordion owners doing exactly that, however it is only being used to control other apps, no return data as far as notes, I can use it for sending MSB/LSB and PC messages though to the accordion, which Roland decided is ok to send via standard MIDI.
So it does connect with the Roland. It has bluetooth exactly the same as WIDI Master.
I will try your steps and advise, thanks again! Although that seems to be only for standard MIDI CC, not the sysex required. So I need to figure the conversion to sysex of that EV Pedal data.
I regret asking , how on earth you plugged a usb midi bluetooth dongle to V-Acc connecting it with the ipad ????
Yeah, agree - just got to figure how to convert the messages...I will try Koraios's 4 steps though and see what happens. Roalnd have done some strange (to me) stuff with these devices!
It just goes into the USB port on the front - it is then see as a Bluetooth device by iPad and it sends note data....what mroe can I say??
Mind you, it is NOT advertised by Roland that you cna do this...well not that I can find in the manuals at any rate....maybe because it is from CME and they have some other shit going on???
How to convert the messages is easy. But I tried looking at V-Accordion docs and found no mention of these SysEx messages. Are they defined by the FC-300 controller?
ok, so it worked up to a point - I can not get some channels to play and local controls (EG tone select/UPG select) do not work. So I suspect more is going on on the Roland side that will bear further investigation.
@Korakios - your advice was appreciated as it put me on the correct path to sorting it...just need a bit more background research~
ok , I suppose you used an adapter from usbB to usbA ? But still I don't get how WIDI-Bud Pro is powered...
Well , if you see it from the ipad as BT usb midi device ,can't insist ...
It would explain the low latency when using pass-thru , since data is moving via usb
If you send midi notes from the ipad to WIDI-Bud Pro does V-Acc responds ?
@pax-eterna. I believe I've figured out the Roland SysEx format, and I wrote a StreamByter script to convert MIDI Expression and Sustain messages to SysEx. It's limited to those two messages, but we could add a lot more functions if desired. Cannot guarantee it works, since I don't know what the real FC-300 sends. I've sent it to you by PM because it's kinda long. It should allow you to use the V-Accordion normally, with remote controls as if from an FC-300. You can try it if you like.
Thanks UD - yes read that. Will try and get to it today - got a full work schedule haha!
Does it include the checksum? If I recall , most Roland sysex includes model ID and a checksum.
Absolutely. Followed all the Roland protocols I could find.
There was another V accordionist that needed help with changing notes for the button side in the mozaic thread. What I remember is that different channels are used for different parts. Like the clarinet sound is on a different channel. The bellow sends cc 11 wich makes the korg M1 the best synth to use because it has the channels and the expression.
Also switching local off is natural if you want to send your midi out thru the computer back to midi in. Otherwise you will get double notes and cc's.
Have a look at my controlChain for Mozaic. I wrote those scripts for use with breath. But they will also work with expression.
Just got this from CME:
_"You cannot connect EV-1-WL to WIDI App, and you do not need to do it.
As I remembered that you want to connect your V accordion to both iPad and EV pedal, correct?
You need to set "group auto-learn" in this case.
Here is the blog: https://www.cme-pro.com/cme-introduces-new-widi-firmware-with-group-auto-learn-mode
You can switch on "group auto-learn" on your WIDI Master with V accordion, then switch on WIDI Bud Pro (with iPad) and EV pedal one by one, until they both connect to V accordion, you can press the button on WIDI Master to save this group.
Next time when you switch on all devices, they will connect to each other automatically."
Best Regard,
Zhao _
Makes it sound easy, haha - Going to try this as well as the Streambyter system from UD. If I can get it to work I daresay quite a few folks in Roland Accordion land will be happy! Cheaper than a $500 3rd party pedal as well! UD's system offers the option of creating up to nine different switch combos...although maybe I am getting ahead of myself here haha!
I think there is other stuff going on in the V-A side, particularly in regard to channels being used for various parts...if I assign the same channel to parts (to avail the use of the pedals) I actually get two or more sounds - which is to be expected as the sounds are set to the same channel. Might also need to find a way in AUM to re-channelise but in the basic MIDI Bus config, not sure how. I'll figure it hahaha!
FWIW I just had it working with just the CME WIDI Master, AUM (and a MIDI in/out bus) and the EV Pedal - albeit only on one channel and latency was a tad high - acceptable for in the studio, not for on stage though!
If I understand correct ,your V-Accordion accepts midi input, only when local off , but it can accept sysex when local on ,right ?
You said you will use WIDI-Bud Pro instead (with passthu) ,so the latency won't be a problem ,
but in both 2 cases (all via Bluetooth)
1. Local off ,pass thru , and midi CC from Boss to ipad and send to V-Acc
2. Local on , midi CC from Boss to ipad, sysex convert within ipad and send to V-Acc
you will still need programing for mapping to the correct part the sustain and expression data
Since you mentioned AUM , you could use multiple instances of streambyter in different tracks and depending the part you want to respond to sustain/expression data , you mute/unmute the AUM's track
Thanks Korakios - yes you seemed to have nailed it there. That's it in a nutshell