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Native Instruments stuff - hit or miss?
I returned to desktop music making after a break of nearly 20 years. I don't really know what I shall think of the NI offerings. Are they good? Komplete Start is free... 🤔
Kontakt Player. I know that it can only use a few free instruments. Is it worth installing at all?
Komplete Kontrol. I don't own a NI controller and I don't intend to buy one. Does it make sense then? Can it be used with other controllers, too?
Comments
I've used NI for over a decade, and it's mostly "hit".
My latest is Komplete 11, and when I was doing more desktop music than I am now (mostly iPad nowadays) almost all my production involved NI synths or effects in some way. They cover a wide range of style/genres and are usually pretty user friendly. It might be better to wait until the annual summer sale when Komplete is half price though, as Komplete does cost quite a bit even though it's very good value for that money I reckon.
If you visit the website you can see what each package includes, and download demos to try them out and see if they are what you need.
I've used them in many live sets without performance or stability concerns so they seem to be pretty robust as well. That was mostly on Windows XP and 7 tbh as my current Windows 10 laptop has hardware latency issues and so I haven't ever used it live.
Native Instruments stuff is good, but not much has been updated recently. Most product releases these days largely consist of sound packs and Kontakt libraries.
Classic VSTs like FM8 and Battery won't likely be updated and are stuck as VST2s. Massive (the original one) did get updated to VST3 which is more positive.
I'm a big fan of Maschine and Komplete Kontrol. Those are being updated relatively consistently. My Maschine MK2 and Maschine Jam still work well with the software.
Komplete Kontrol can be used with other midi controllers but really benefits from using the display, so I wouldn't recommend it unless you have one of the KK keyboards. The larger KK keyboards are excellent with Fatar keys. I have an mk1 of KK49.
I prefer synths to Kontakt so I don't use it much. I also prefer other samplers that support SFZ. Reaktor is cool but I never use it since VCV can do so much. Overall, I'm a still a fan of NI stuff, which I still use but I wish they invested more time in synths and software than sound packs, though I get it from business perspective.
Probably the most bloated suite of tools on the market, but at its core there are some great instruments.
For me it's similar. I prefer synths over sample-based instruments and I already own the Arturia V Collection, U-He's Diva, Surge, and some Mac versions of iOS synths, the Korg Gadget synths for instance - all in all that's enough synths for a lifetime. Moreover, I have already quite a vast sample library and the disk space is limited. Good to hear that my impression was correct that KK makes only sense with a KK controller. I'm using Bitwig which has The Grid that fulfills my needs for a modular playground.
Sorry NI, I guess I skip it.
Thank you guys. That is exactly my impression. It really helped to resist the impulse to install it because it's free. GAS level is declining.
There are some great free and cheap independent libraries for Kontakt. A lot of the pianobook stuff is available for Kontakt and generally seem to sound better than the equivalent Decent Sampler instruments. There are some particularly interesting libraries at Sound Dust - https://www.sound-dust.com/everything
If you're not feeling the love for Kontakt another option may be Soundpaint - https://soundpaint.com/ - it's sort of similar to Kontakt - it's a free engine which you load incredibly deeply sampled instruments into. There's a huge amount of control available and the sampling quality is quite amazing (it's developed by the team that started 8DIO). There are some great free instruments so you can test it out - and a good set of videos showing each instrument and how to get the best out of the engine.
NI’s Noire Kontakt instrument is great.
👍 NI is good stuff, very inspiring libraries
I think they are the bees knees. Maschine and Komplete are awesome.
Definitely Hit. Single instruments are a bit overpriced but bundles are ok
I agree with all the above! NI stuff is great to have, but I think it's best to always buy NI in bundles. In terms of Komplete Kontrol without a controller, it's very valid because Komplete Kontrol (software) is much better to browse and preview libraries and vsts in vs Kontakt. The NKS previews etc make it a breeze with the arrows on your QWERTY.
Hmmm… I already have a lot synths that support NKS. Arturia V Collection, U-He. If I get you right, NKS improves preset browsing without a NI controller, simply with the keyboard?
Wow, so many responses. Thank you all. 🙏 😍
Okay, if I understand you right. Most of you think that there are some Kontakt bundles that justify to install Kontakt. But most probably you need the full version for them, right? This is quite some investment and I think I‘m not willing to pay 300 bucks for another sampler. Aren’t there alternatives to use the Kontakt Instruments? I‘ll checkout soundpaint, too.
I borrowed a Maschine mk II from a friend and checked it out. Nice device but I compared it with an Ableton Push and decided for the Push.
Yup, love NKS, makes life so much easier with a Maschine controller.
The flow doesn’t break.
There's no alternative way to use Kontakt instruments and even then some need the full version rather than the Player. Native Instruments usually have a sale around June so if you can wait till then...
Agreed that NKS is a winner, and it makes having KK keyboard or Maschine worth it.
For Kontakt, if you are not in a rush, wait a while for NI summer sales on Komplete bundles. That's how I got most NI synths. Much cheaper in bulk.
I really like using Komplete Kontrol, even though I don't have an NI controller - instead I'm using an Akai Force mapped to KK. KK's tagging, attributes, and audio previews are such a time-saver, and Arturia and AAS plugins are fully-integrated in KK, so finding the 'right sound' is easier and quicker.
I pulled all the packs and thru them on the iPad. Works for me that way.
I recently started checking out the free Reaktor Player, which gives you access to literally hundreds of free synths and sequencers that users have made. (User library here: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/ ). I'm impressed, a lot of this stuff is seriously good. In case you aren't yet aware, Kontakt is the "sampler", whereas Reaktor is the synth/modular environment. With the player versions of either, you don't have the ability to build your own synths, but you have ability to make use of what other people have already built.
I wore out a Maschine MK1 learning how to make tunes back in the day. Just been getting back into a recent MK3 purchase after burning out on the platform a bit. Highly recommended, has evolved a lot and it’s pretty staggering what it can do these days. Would team up well with Bitwig plus iOS.
Sounds, including samples, are very important to me and a lot of great sound libraries require Kontakt, often the full retail version of it. So in my case, I'd say that I don't even have the choice.
In terms of sound quality from available libraries, UVI Workstation/Falcon or Spectrasonics might be my second best choice and HALion the third.
It's still not covering the full picture though, I prefer guitars and basses from Amplesound, brass instruments from Samplemodeling (both have better control than most Kontakt libs), drums from XLN Audio (great UI, great choice of instruments), percussive hits, sound effects and loops from various sources plus a few of my own instrument samples when I need a certain playing style that isn't included in any library I own.
NKS is a great thing as long as your sample libs and instruments support it but a lot of them don't and adding it yourself is possible but somewhat time consuming (even though there's a fantastic project on github, done by Drachenkaetzchen: https://github.com/PresetMagician/PresetMagician).
In the end, I tend to use a limited choice if my favorite sound libraries and go back to it regularly, which makes using NKS less important for me - although it can be a nice browser for Kontakt libraries too of course.
Synth presets load quickly anyway so I rather browse them inside the synth that I feel like using atm. (btw, another U-he synth fan here 😊).
https://www.kit-maker.com/
Hey @krassmann - acknowledging the previous takes (I agree with most of them), my subjective two cents:
PRO
- lots and lots of high quality, good sounds
- Kontakt. Some of their best and most interesting stuff is among their Kontakt instruments (if you like something like Pharlight or Ethereal Earth, Arturia etc. have nothing similar). Kontakt also has amazing third-party libraries. I would go as far as to say it doesn't make sense to get into NI and not buy Kontakt (while it may be a much more valid option the other way around)
- Maschine and Komplete Kontrol are both relevant and good, and they handle third-party instruments as well (Arturia, Output, AAS, Synthmaster etc.)
- Maschine and KK have a great favourite marking function, which I can and do use for third-party NKS instruments that have none or a bad one, and for Kontakt instruments because you can't do that in Kontakt, either
- you will never need another drum sound in your life ever again
CON
- atrocious (and I mean, ATROCIOUS) update/upgrade management (lots of their own stuff still not M1 native after 2+ years)
- often a total lack of care for what their users are asking for
- a subpar license and product manager (called Native Access) that requires you to individually execute some of the steps for groups of products instead of doing things in batches (moving expansions to another location being the best known example)
- totally hamfisted product launches (their recent launch of the new, M1 ready Komplete Kontrol killed compatibility with a lot of their own apps as well as third party connections and they were not even willing to acknowledge their responsibility for a good while)
SUM
And as someone already said, try to only buy NI products in collections or batches, never individually. Good luck!
As you see, my positive things are all about the products, while the negative ones are pretty much all about the company's attitude to serving its customers. Draw your own conclusions.
True, I think the Maschine mk3 is the most comprehensive controller that is directly supported by Bitwig. I think it even includes sample editing. Anyway, I really fell in love with the Push. I had the chance to buy a second hand Push 1 for just 100 Euro and it is fabulous.
I really see that most of you are in favor of NI stuff. I’m really thankful for all the opinions. Seems to be essential if you need a vast sound library. I think I give it a shot and try the free Kontakt Player and KK. But honestly, I spent so much money in the holiday season that I don‘t see myself shelling out 300 for Kontakt. If I like it maybe when the summer sale bundles are rolling in. Thanks.
Well said 🙏🏻 on the money
Don’t pay 300 bucks for it. Search google for Kontakt and crossgrade and wait for the next sale (I guess it will be summer sale). Some 3rd party libraries which can be used in the free Kontakt player offer that.
...oops, I forgot the commercial bit: NI's biggest sale is their annual Summer of Sound thing (in June, I think), followed by the Black Friday + end of year period. This is when it makes most sense to buy their stuff. New instruments and collections usually aren't discounted in the year they appear, with the exception of a smaller intro promo. Then they get a nice discount the next year. The expansions are probably best bought, also in batch, at the semi-regular "9 for 99" expansion-specific promo.
If you have one of their collections, they may offer you a customised, "non-public" upgrade to a larger collection, at very good prices, out of the blue, in email - but you can't plan on that.
NI has done a ton of great stuff over the years, but lately it seems like they've slowed WAY down on product releases and updates. A huge portion of what they sell isn't even retina or HiDPI compatible still, which is a little worrying. Personally unless you were getting just a single instrument or partaking in one of their huge sales, I'd be cautious about going with a lot of NI stuff right now. They've historically ended support for products while still having a decent user base for them.
Every week I hope they don't drop Traktor iOS as that's something I use all the time and I'm getting more DJ gigs lately.