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New GAS for Ableton Push 2
Hi all,
Somehow last night I ended watching a ton of videos on the Push2. I was actually doing some research on the Akai Force, which has been on my GAS list for a long time, and I stumbled across the Push2. I had never paid much attention to the Push as I’ve intentionally walked away from desktop music, I work on the computer all day, bla bla.
But seeing the videos it seems like you hardly (if at all) actually need to look at the desktop Ableton screen. The workflow seems amazing. Any existing users that can clarify this?. Do you need the mouse or interact with ableton on the desktop or can you do it all on the Push?.
I’ve fallen in love with the design of the Push, I love the display and how everything is laid out. So elegant. Compared to the iPad, I’ve realized I love knobs and physical sequencers… I enjoy the clicking on my Digitakt and the sequencer on the Push looks amazing.
As crazy as it may be I feel like the Push feels more “hardware” than the Akai force, even tough it needs a computer to run. I’d disregard it if I needed the mouse or to look at the computer screen for long, but from the videos it seeems like you can pretty much work on just the Push.
I’ve never used Ableton Live but the iPad has turned me into a clip-mode guy after Zenbeats and Loopy. But I don’t see any physical controller integration like what I see on the Push. I mean the Push just works, no midi mapping, no workarounds or noodling for ages to get things working.
Comments
I had a Push 1 for years and absolutely loved it. If you’re working in Session View (clip launcher), you can control almost everything from the hardware without ever touching your screen. It’s actually kind of problematic in some ways — I became so used to the Push that I never bothered learning key commands or menu structure.
The Push 2 adds a really smooth sampling workflow and far greater visual feedback via the colour screen. They also made the pads MUCH better and made the top panel aluminum instead of that soft-touch finish that gets sticky after a year or two (although note that the back and sides are still soft-touch).
I gave my Push 1 to a friend recently and I really miss it. The only things keeping me from getting a Push 2 are a) it’s very big and the screen is extremely dim unless you plug it into the wall, so it’s not ideal for my small setup; and b) it was introduced seven years ago and they could release an upgrade at any time. I have no real reason to think that a Push 3 is coming, but if they announced it right after I bought the 2, I would be upset with myself for not waiting. So I’m sticking with the Launchpad for now.
Have it, love it, and yes - rarely look at the laptop. Even retrospective MIDI capture is there (by playing for a while, then pushing the record and new buttons at the same time to capture what was already played).
I’m spending a lot of time now just playing with the surface tuned as a chromatic keyboard and it is by far my favorite MIDI control note layout. When I’m away from my Push 2, I use Velocity Keyboard on iPhone or iPad so I can keep using that incredible 8x8 grid.
It’s a beautiful piece of gear.
And if you haven’t used Ableton before, the session view is so much fun. Look at follow actions and see if that sparks your interest.
Also, Koala has a free license for Ableton Lite version and the ability to export a Koala session as an Ableton drum kit for tappy tappy good times. 😀 Ableton Note export is also a blast.
Push is great for coming up with ideas and sketching out the broad strokes of a song. The only thing I really need to reach for the computer for in those states is saving. I do find that once I want to make more detailed or complex arrangements however, that I end up switching to a mouse and the laptop though.
I noticed on Equipboard that there are a large number of notable musicians who use Ableton Push:
Push: https://equipboard.com/items/ableton-push#nav-artists
Push 2: https://equipboard.com/items/ableton-push-2#nav-artists
I render this significant because “professionals” usually like to use gear that is quick, easy and high quality.
Good luck finding a Push 2 right now though, seems almost everyone is out of stock strangely.
I noticed Push was back in stock on Ableton’s website last week 🙏🏻
Push 3 could be on the horizon. although historically they released it in November I believe.
Exciting times.
I love my Push 2 and yes, you can ALMOST do everything from it without looking at the screen as long as you’re working in clip mode, though some thing’s are faster with a mouse. If you do get Ableton you’re going to really appreciate all the IPad apps that can save projects as Ableton projects. I actually could not click with or understand Ableton for years until I started using Gadget on the IPad , then a light went on and I totally got it lol.
Who hopes for a standalone Push ✋ in the next iteration?
I do like the Force as well - it is a complete DAW in a box. it’s value is growing day by day - now getting sold out in many places.
Hrmmmmm…am i detecting a hint there😉
I really love my Push 2…but i definitely wish it were more portable.
I really hope there’s a Push 3 on the horizon which is stand alone and supports all of the Max4live extensions, devices and native instruments and effects.
If Ableton learns from NI’s botched M+ release I’ll be happy.
Heck even a stand alone with a full implementation of Simpler would be a wonderful thing. And when you reconnect with the desktop you get all the bells and whistles…and can even Browse VST patches and Create and Save projects without touching the keyboard 🤪
Here’s hoping that a Push 3 will make the latest MPC line look like a 20th Century invention.
Make sure you also check out Maschine 3 before going for the Push 2. Both work inside Ableton but they're not comparable. Depends on what you want to improve - making music or operating Ableton?
Great feed back as always! 🙌
I was a Cubase and Logic user in desktop, then turns to iPad and haven’t looked back. Never tried Ableton. Now I’m a clip advocate after Zenbeats which is my favorite iOS daw.
Going back to the above, I love Zenbeats workflow, i would never go back to a desktop daw to use mouse and keyboard. The Push seems like Zenbeats with buttons and obviously enhanced features that’s are missing on iOS, like proper audio editing, warping etc… Also when you’re finished the “sketch” part Ableton is just better equipped for a finishing mix. Really tempting.
I’d love a standalone Push, for sure… As I said, I had never considered the Push, I was lusting for an Akai Force. But I realized I like the design, looks and “attitude” of the Push a lot better. It’s so elegant. The Force sort of looks like an iPad with an attached controller, which is fine, but I already love the iPad. The Push seems to take it a step further, actually looks more like a hardware device with its own thing, if you know what I mean… Feels more like a Digitakt or Elektron machine. Where the force, again, is like a daw with hardware controls. Very ironic, since you need a desktop with daw to use the Push. I’d definately go all in on a standalone Push.
I’ve watched a ton of videos on the Maschine+, also MPC Live and the lot…
I want to make music, without a mouse and the less computer screen, the better. I definately don’t dig the MPC workflow. And from what I’ve seen the Push seems like the most “robust” option…. How things are mapped, the display, even the fonts used…. I’m gonna check one of those “MK3 vs Push” videos. I had only considered standalone units until now and I liked the Force ‘s clip workflow better than the Maschine+
@tahiche If I had to choose between Force and Maschine+ it would be the Force without a doubt. If it needs to be a standalone machine, that is. The M+ hardware is simply not powerful enough to give you a desktop like experience.
Mk3 plus a decent laptop (or a recent, powerful windows tablet?) is different though.
I bought a second hand Push 1 for only 100 Euro while a Push 2 is about 400-500 Euro. The Push 2 is undeniably a much improved device. The color display allows much easier navigation of your project and its devices and you can edit samples on the Push. But the Push 1 offers the same handling of the session mode (clips) without looking at the laptop. If you can accept to edit samples on the laptop, the Push 1 is still okay. The device is built like a tank and it weighs about 3 kg.
IMHO Ableton Live Lite is not enough for a serious project. The 8 track limit hits you very easy since FX returns are counting as tracks. It also misses many of the essential devices. So, you must calculate to buy an Ableton license, too. Instantly.
Maschine never clicked with me. I borrowed a mkII from a friend. The 16 pads are not enough if you want to use it as an instrument. And the Push is an instrument. I'm not a keyboarder and therefore I really like using the Push to play in scale mode.
As a Bitwig lover, I need to add that it’s also possible to use the Push with Bitwig using a community extension called „Driven by Moss“. It can‘t edit samples with the Push 2 but replicates the Push 1 capabilities quite well. Ableton has multiple clip playback modes while Bitwig can only trigger clips but Bitwig is just so cool in many other ways.
My recommendation: Get a second hand Push 1 + standard license of Live or Bitwig. Perhaps the Push 3 is not too far away anymore.
I hope the shortage means Push 3 is coming.
I’d love a standalone Push. I keep reading rumours about it but nothing serious. I think the design and looks are so much better than anything else. Looks matter!
No, just letting people know that they seem to be backordered at a few places right now. Lots of demand I guess.
I’m trying out Bitwig and Ableton for the first time. Ableton is a beast and can understand why it’s got such a following. But Bitwig, is just ❤️. I’ve clicked with Bitwig straight away. It’s got that extra something, it’s “fresher”. And even The Grid feels familiar coming from Drambo.
Per your advice I’ve been watching a ton of the Driven by Moses videos on the Push. Amazing stuff. Even my little Launchkey mini mk3 can do a ton hands-on of stuff.
I’m seriously considering getting a used Push1 like you recommend. In the case of Bitwig with the Moses script there’s not much difference between the Push1 and Push2.
@krassmann have you tried them all?. I definately like Bitwig better, but my main goal and the only reason I’m even considering using any desktop daw again is if I hardly have to use the mouse and the less screen the better. Is there a huge difference in this regard with the Push2/Ableton vs Push1/Bitwig?.
Thanks!
Hahaha, I knew you would come to this when comparing these DAWs. Yeah the Grid is really cool. It's the good middle ground between simply using plugins and a full-blown modular solution like VCV rack or Max4Live. The learning curve is not as steep but still very powerful. True, as a Drambo user you kind of feel at home instantly.
Moss's scripts are mindblowing but it's quite a task to master them since they are so packed full of features. The important difference regarding the Push 2 is that with Bitwig/Moss you can't edit samples which was one of the big new features of the Push 2.
Regarding the mouse-free live looping workflow I think Live has some advantages. But since I'm more of a Bitwig guy and I have the Push now only for 2 months, I did not dive into using it with Ableton. My loop recording with Bitwig/Moss is like this:
This is my way but I think there are more ways, like pushing the record button to manually start and stop the recording. You can use a footswitch to trigger the new button which is neat for recording instruments. You must know that there is no overdub for audio clips but there is comping, which makes also more sense than overdub.
The audio clip workflow is much different because pressing the new button doesn't record anything, probably because audio clips have no overdub. Instead, you can switch the Push to session mode and hit the pad for the clip that you want to record into and you hit it again to stop recording and start looping it.
I think where Live is better is that it has a looper device that can adjust the tempo of the project to your recording. In Live there is the capture mode like in Ableton Note that just records your jam and allows you to capture the last few bars of your jam. These features do not exist in Bitwig.
Regarding controllers, I think a Novation Launchpad already gives you most of the workflow that you can achieve with the Push except for the visual feedback on the device screen and no knobs for tweaking devices. Probably your Launchkey Mini can do these basics, too.
Basically I think that Live is better for a loop recording workflow. It has also much more options for clip playback and recording. But for me, Bitwig is the better DAW and I'm not really a live-looping artist. The live-looping workflow works with Bitwig and the Push without looking at the computer but I think Live is more advanced in this regard.
@krassmann - FYI, you can activate Ableton’s midi capture directly from the Push. Just jam away and after you play something you like, hold down the record button and press new. Then in clip view, adjust the start of the clip if you want even more of the phrase than Ableton selected for you.
Thanks, I’ve never used the midi capture feature but it’s nice to know we can use it directly with the Push 2, I’ll definitely try it.
I'll check it out, thanks. Since I'm more using Bitwig I did not try my new Push 1 with Live very much.
@tahiche I forgot to mention that if you want to reproduce the workflow I described, you need to make some settings. In the Play menu you need to set the Default Launch Q to a reasonable value:
And in the Bitwig settings you need to set the audio tracks to auto-arm, but beware of possible feedback with mikes.
I don't know how to set a clip length and create a new clip with the Launchkey. I think if you have the "Record on scene launch" option in the Play menu turned on, then pushing a launch pad would record into an empty slot.