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Any advantage to converting Decent Sampler instruments to AudioLayer? [Yes!]

2

Comments

  • KrupaKrupa

    @Gavinski said:

    @Krupa said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @JMmusic said:
    I could never use more than 1-2 instances of DS, or crash fest.

    In AL conversion, I didn’t keep good track of time, but I think it was about 2 hours. Some of that was learning some stuff in AL, so I’ll probably get a little faster on the next one.

    I noticed Woven Strings has two presets, Woven Strings and CH Stereo Woven Strings. I checked the DS code and it looks like to me like CH Stereo has three layers, 1 normal layer , 1 pitched up and panned left, and 1 pitched down and panned right. It’s easy to do in AL - once the base layer is set, duplicate the layer and set the layers pitch and pan settings. Adds some nice depth. But…when I play this preset in DS I can’t hear the pitched up and down layers!
    I think there’s a bug in the code…group header shown tuning=0 (blue arrow) overriding the individual lines showing tuning=-1

    Glad I moved it to AL to be able to fix it!

    I’d like to try NFO Chamber Strings next, but there are a lot of samples with loops point settings :#

    These unfortunately are really the kind of tasks I don't like doing! Feels too much like admin. I wonder if we could make a community project where everyone interested converts one DS library to Audiolayer and we all share them! I would need to learn Audiolayer first but I reckon it would be worth it

    Good idea, a basic tutorial would be a prerequisite to this working well (possibly but not necessarily a video one, just a list of instructions would be great). I’d like to use audio layer more, and cross platform and I love the piano book library but just can’t be bothered using it because decent sampler just ain’t…

    True, maybe someone who understands the process well already could write that list

    Yeah totally, it’s probably quite simple once you’ve got it down pat…

  • bleepbleep

    @Gavinski said:
    I wonder if we could make a community project where everyone interested converts one DS library to Audiolayer and we all share them!

    Would be nice, but isn't resharing of sample packs normally frowned upon by the original source creators? This would need to be addressed first.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @bleep said:

    @Gavinski said:
    I wonder if we could make a community project where everyone interested converts one DS library to Audiolayer and we all share them!

    Would be nice, but isn't resharing of sample packs normally frowned upon by the original source creators? This would need to be addressed first.

    True, although we're only talking about free ones, still though, you have a point

  • el_boel_bo

    @Gavinski said:

    @bleep said:

    @Gavinski said:
    I wonder if we could make a community project where everyone interested converts one DS library to Audiolayer and we all share them!

    Would be nice, but isn't resharing of sample packs normally frowned upon by the original source creators? This would need to be addressed first.

    True, although we're only talking about free ones, still though, you have a point

    I like the idea of a community-driven conversion project. But I definitely think it would need to be done with some kind of permission e.g from the individual Pianobook creators themselves. Assuming that were granted, there would presumably be no issue for those of us with Kontakt to use that as the source. Having said that, not sure what Pianobook/Spitfire would think or whether they have any kind of control in such cases.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    True

  • attakkattakk

    Bit late to the table so may have been covered but personally all I use AudioLayer for is its disk streaming of samples. I work exclusively in NS2 and bounce everything to audio - memory requirements mean that any sampler auv3 (or the internal Slate & Obsidian) quickly hit the limit in my projects however AudioLayer’s disk streaming is perfect.

    I just wish there were others that did it.

    .

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited February 2023
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • bleepbleep

    Oh, that would be fantastic if pianobook.co.uk would start having some packs in AudioLayer format. Do give it a try.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited February 2023
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • el_boel_bo

    @JMmusic said:

    @el_bo said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @bleep said:

    @Gavinski said:
    I wonder if we could make a community project where everyone interested converts one DS library to Audiolayer and we all share them!

    Would be nice, but isn't resharing of sample packs normally frowned upon by the original source creators? This would need to be addressed first.

    True, although we're only talking about free ones, still though, you have a point

    I like the idea of a community-driven conversion project. But I definitely think it would need to be done with some kind of permission e.g from the individual Pianobook creators themselves. Assuming that were granted, there would presumably be no issue for those of us with Kontakt to use that as the source. Having said that, not sure what Pianobook/Spitfire would think or whether they have any kind of control in such cases.

    I wondered about this too…I had contacted Pianobook about making AudioLayer versions for download from the Pianobook site. They replied to me to try and submit it via their theirsubmission link and they would take it from there. I think they do some testing and and maybe ask the creator about posting that new version of it, and if ok they will make it available for download.

    I think now that I have it working, I’ll give it a try.
    If they don’t want to put it on Pianobook, I think we are not able to put it on something like patch storage. As has already been said I think it’s frowned upon.

    Ah, really cool that you reached out to them. I'd imagine there'd be a certain level of QC that'd eed to be reached in order for them to get behind it. But if there's a brief/checklist that could be worked towards, i don't see why any of us wouldn't be able to conform to it.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • wimwim
    edited February 2023

    Get some nerd hooked on the idea of creating a DS text file to SFZ text file converter. Judging from the screenshot earlier of the DS file, it doesn't look like it would be very hard to do in something like python.

    (Before anyone asks ... I am not that nerd.)

  • KrupaKrupa

    I was wondering earlier if an import function to audiolayer itself might not be such a tricky thing to implement anyway…

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @wim said:
    Get some nerd hooked on the idea of creating a DS text file to SFZ text file converter. Judging from the screenshot earlier of the DS file, it doesn't look like it would be very hard to do in something like python.

    (Before anyone asks ... I am not that nerd.)

    If I recall correctly, a lot of decentsampler instruments were the fruit of a script from another format.

  • heshes
    edited February 2023

    I don't know anything about it, but isn't this an example of some (open source) software that can be used to do a Decent Sampler to SFZ format conversion?:

    https://www.mossgrabers.de/Software/ConvertWithMoss/ConvertWithMoss.html

    fwiw, the manual says in section 3, "The converter does not support any sophisticated synthesizer parameters like envelopes, filters or modulation."
    But I think the manual text is old and unupdated, for version update 4.6 that came out in 2021 the manual includes lists these new features:

    v 4.6
• New: SF2, SFZ, MPC: Support for Pitch bend range settings.
• New: SF2, SFZ, Decent Sampler, MPC: Support for filter settings (incl. filter envelope).
• New: SF2, SFZ, MPC: Support for Pitch envelope settings.
  • GavinskiGavinski

    @wim said:
    Get some nerd hooked on the idea of creating a DS text file to SFZ text file converter. Judging from the screenshot earlier of the DS file, it doesn't look like it would be very hard to do in something like python.

    (Before anyone asks ... I am not that nerd.)

    Maybe someone could use chat gpt to do it, as long as they know enough about coding to find the mistakes in the generated code

    @JMmusic said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Krupa said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @JMmusic said:
    I could never use more than 1-2 instances of DS, or crash fest.

    In AL conversion, I didn’t keep good track of time, but I think it was about 2 hours. Some of that was learning some stuff in AL, so I’ll probably get a little faster on the next one.

    I noticed Woven Strings has two presets, Woven Strings and CH Stereo Woven Strings. I checked the DS code and it looks like to me like CH Stereo has three layers, 1 normal layer , 1 pitched up and panned left, and 1 pitched down and panned right. It’s easy to do in AL - once the base layer is set, duplicate the layer and set the layers pitch and pan settings. Adds some nice depth. But…when I play this preset in DS I can’t hear the pitched up and down layers!
    I think there’s a bug in the code…group header shown tuning=0 (blue arrow) overriding the individual lines showing tuning=-1

    Glad I moved it to AL to be able to fix it!

    I’d like to try NFO Chamber Strings next, but there are a lot of samples with loops point settings :#

    These unfortunately are really the kind of tasks I don't like doing! Feels too much like admin. I wonder if we could make a community project where everyone interested converts one DS library to Audiolayer and we all share them! I would need to learn Audiolayer first but I reckon it would be worth it

    Good idea, a basic tutorial would be a prerequisite to this working well (possibly but not necessarily a video one, just a list of instructions would be great). I’d like to use audio layer more, and cross platform and I love the piano book library but just can’t be bothered using it because decent sampler just ain’t…

    True, maybe someone who understands the process well already could write that list

    The manual is quite good. Generally you are:

    • assigning a sample waveform to a key or number of keys (zone)
    • set the start and stop points and loop points if a long sustained instrument
    • assign what triggers the sample to play (key up, key down, etc.)
    • Repeat for each sample
    • Then adjust volume, pitch, envelop, filter settings for the instrument.

    It can get more complicated than this, but this is the basic concepts.

    So for a piano, you would align the sample of C4 with the key C4, set the start and end points of the sample (no loop points for a piano sound), set it to trigger on key down. Repeat for each note. If samples are not made for every note, you can spread the sample over multiple notes and it will be pitched up/down accordingly. Lastly, set the attack, release, filter if needed, and some FX if desired.

    Thanks for that - sounds simple enough. I think many consider about 3 notes per octave enough, no? So doing every note is probably overkill, better to use the zoning function. Also better for getting instruments that will take up less space on an idevice.

    With Audiolayer can you just play bunch of notes into it in a single file and get it to detect pitch and assign zones intelligently etc?

    Ps. For anyone who doesn't know, I watched a Pianobook vid the other day making the useful point that samples generally sound better slowed down than sped up, so best to use single notes to populate the zone below rather than above.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited February 2023
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • bleepbleep
    edited February 2023

    Last time I imported EXS I think I unzipped then did Share + Open in ... on the EXS preset file. Does that work with your AL instrument?

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • bleepbleep

    Good! I thought you needed to unzip first, but doing it directly on the zip file is even better.

    Fingers crossed that pianobook will start hosting AL instruments. If needed, virsyn could provide a promo code to them to get things started.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • GavinskiGavinski

    @JMmusic said:
    When testing how to import it, unfortunately, I deleted the AL version of Woven Strings, so I have to rebuild it. I'll try to submit soon.
    I would like to hear from the developer of AL the proper import steps? It's not shown in the manual anywhere, so people who download the AL version may not know how to import it.

    @VirSyn

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited February 2023
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • VirSynVirSyn
    edited February 2023

    @JMmusic said:
    When testing how to import it, unfortunately, I deleted the AL version of Woven Strings, so I have to rebuild it. I'll try to submit soon.
    I would like to hear from the developer of AL the proper import steps? It's not shown in the manual anywhere, so people who download the AL version may not know how to import it.

    The zip file you get from the audioLayer Instrument sharing is just a ZIP file like that:

    WonderfulPreset.instrument.zip

    After downloading this file from any source just air drop or select "share" and select AudioLayer as destination. That's all to be done!

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @VirSyn said:

    @JMmusic said:
    When testing how to import it, unfortunately, I deleted the AL version of Woven Strings, so I have to rebuild it. I'll try to submit soon.
    I would like to hear from the developer of AL the proper import steps? It's not shown in the manual anywhere, so people who download the AL version may not know how to import it.

    The zip file you get from the audioLayer Instrument sharing is just a ZIP file like that:

    WonderfulPreset.instrument.zip

    After downloading this file from any source just air drop or select "share" and select AudioLayer as destination. That's all to be done!

    @virsyn unfortunately if one has many apps that can open zip Files AudioLayer may not show up as a target (even in the More list) . The only sure fire way for those with many apps would be for AudioLayer’s Import to be able to handle them. This seems to be a long-standing iOS bug (not showing all possible target apps when there are too many possible targets).

    I have noticed that a few apps use a file extension to ensure the OS recognizes files as theirs that seem to be just files (Lumafusion archives are an example).

  • VirSynVirSyn

    @espiegel123 said:

    @VirSyn said:

    @JMmusic said:
    When testing how to import it, unfortunately, I deleted the AL version of Woven Strings, so I have to rebuild it. I'll try to submit soon.
    I would like to hear from the developer of AL the proper import steps? It's not shown in the manual anywhere, so people who download the AL version may not know how to import it.

    The zip file you get from the audioLayer Instrument sharing is just a ZIP file like that:

    WonderfulPreset.instrument.zip

    After downloading this file from any source just air drop or select "share" and select AudioLayer as destination. That's all to be done!

    @virsyn unfortunately if one has many apps that can open zip Files AudioLayer may not show up as a target (even in the More list) . The only sure fire way for those with many apps would be for AudioLayer’s Import to be able to handle them. This seems to be a long-standing iOS bug (not showing all possible target apps when there are too many possible targets).

    I have noticed that a few apps use a file extension to ensure the OS recognizes files as theirs that seem to be just files (Lumafusion archives are an example).

    Good point. Will add zip import to AudioLayer's import functionality.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @VirSyn said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @VirSyn said:

    @JMmusic said:
    When testing how to import it, unfortunately, I deleted the AL version of Woven Strings, so I have to rebuild it. I'll try to submit soon.
    I would like to hear from the developer of AL the proper import steps? It's not shown in the manual anywhere, so people who download the AL version may not know how to import it.

    The zip file you get from the audioLayer Instrument sharing is just a ZIP file like that:

    WonderfulPreset.instrument.zip

    After downloading this file from any source just air drop or select "share" and select AudioLayer as destination. That's all to be done!

    @virsyn unfortunately if one has many apps that can open zip Files AudioLayer may not show up as a target (even in the More list) . The only sure fire way for those with many apps would be for AudioLayer’s Import to be able to handle them. This seems to be a long-standing iOS bug (not showing all possible target apps when there are too many possible targets).

    I have noticed that a few apps use a file extension to ensure the OS recognizes files as theirs that seem to be just files (Lumafusion archives are an example).

    Good point. Will add zip import to AudioLayer's import functionality.

    Thanks!

  • jo92346jo92346

    @VirSyn said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @VirSyn said:

    @JMmusic said:
    When testing how to import it, unfortunately, I deleted the AL version of Woven Strings, so I have to rebuild it. I'll try to submit soon.
    I would like to hear from the developer of AL the proper import steps? It's not shown in the manual anywhere, so people who download the AL version may not know how to import it.

    The zip file you get from the audioLayer Instrument sharing is just a ZIP file like that:

    WonderfulPreset.instrument.zip

    After downloading this file from any source just air drop or select "share" and select AudioLayer as destination. That's all to be done!

    @virsyn unfortunately if one has many apps that can open zip Files AudioLayer may not show up as a target (even in the More list) . The only sure fire way for those with many apps would be for AudioLayer’s Import to be able to handle them. This seems to be a long-standing iOS bug (not showing all possible target apps when there are too many possible targets).

    I have noticed that a few apps use a file extension to ensure the OS recognizes files as theirs that seem to be just files (Lumafusion archives are an example).

    Good point. Will add zip import to AudioLayer's import functionality.

    Also, any progress on that one: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/1121739/#Comment_1121739

  • VirSynVirSyn

    @jo92346 said:

    @VirSyn said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @VirSyn said:

    @JMmusic said:
    When testing how to import it, unfortunately, I deleted the AL version of Woven Strings, so I have to rebuild it. I'll try to submit soon.
    I would like to hear from the developer of AL the proper import steps? It's not shown in the manual anywhere, so people who download the AL version may not know how to import it.

    The zip file you get from the audioLayer Instrument sharing is just a ZIP file like that:

    WonderfulPreset.instrument.zip

    After downloading this file from any source just air drop or select "share" and select AudioLayer as destination. That's all to be done!

    @virsyn unfortunately if one has many apps that can open zip Files AudioLayer may not show up as a target (even in the More list) . The only sure fire way for those with many apps would be for AudioLayer’s Import to be able to handle them. This seems to be a long-standing iOS bug (not showing all possible target apps when there are too many possible targets).

    I have noticed that a few apps use a file extension to ensure the OS recognizes files as theirs that seem to be just files (Lumafusion archives are an example).

    Good point. Will add zip import to AudioLayer's import functionality.

    Also, any progress on that one: https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/1121739/#Comment_1121739

    working here in the next version already...

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