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The complexity thing
My recent engagement around the Strokes sequencer (and now sampler) app, which I am (still) thinking about getting, also got me thinking about apps which stick around in the toolbox, and apps which don’t.
As someone who makes all their noises inside AUM, what works for me are discrete apps which are pretty immediate to understand, to slot into an instrument, effect or midi slot, and boom, start earning their keep, even if they then have layers of depth which unveil themselves if I keep working with them. So something like Model 15 is very, very deep, but I can get up and running with it immediately using a familiar vocabulary of presets, and inch my way out into its depths via exploration which is actually fun, not frustrating, to do.
Apps which rarely or never get used by me, even (especially!) when I like what they do, or are very, very powerful, are ones which have very idiosyncratic interfaces, or levels of complexity which mean the manual or tutorial vids have to be at hand as I attempt to work with them. Exploration and deepening understanding never happens, because the initial bar to entry is too high. Unless I use them all the time, I’m going to have to re learn how to use them every single future time too - which inevitably means they’ll get ditched in favour of something which is more ‘obvious’ to use.
I’m thinking here of things like some of Igor Vasiliev’s apps, Coldcut’s Jamm Pro and, alas, Drambo. (I know, I know, it’s not you, it’s me.)
I wonder what other apps, or aspects of apps, do people find off-putting, even if what the app does is theoretically worth it? What makes an app a use once and never again experience for you?
Comments
More or less 100% with this… apps that just do one thing very well are my preference.
I don’t have a problem with manuals, actually enjoy reading them (sad I know) but apps that I struggle with that I’ve had a while (and I’m not a great collector of them) are…
Scaler 2 - Read the manual, watched all the videos by Leo (excellent) but something about it just doesn’t gel.
Atom 2 - I know it’s a great app but I struggle with anything piano based 😢
Senode - I just open the app up and instantly close it again - sure it’s fantastic 😊
All the rest I use most of the time
Drambo isnt hard to understand as a host. Or even maybe build a synth. The patchstorage complex stuff, where it seems you would never build. You probably wernt going to build anyway. So downloading from patchstorage is a bonus.
Igors apps are worth watching a vid.
Jamm pro I dont use as it isnt that many tracks but may again with dual ipads. I just start scratching again so will either be good ( or just use koala etc for stuff ) Jamm pro is a good performance audio app though.
Fully agree with this. I do love live jamming, and I am short sighted and had to deal with chronic fatigue what can make dealing with complex systems and situations very difficult. Because of this situation, a clean user interface with fairly large controls is important for me. That's why I like simple and single functionality apps. This makes apps with overloaded UIs, or that are designed to look like a physical device not fit for the job. I find 3D buttons and sliders much more difficult to look at than flat and high contrast controls. Positive examples:
Cem Olkays "SnakeBud". Hosted in AB3 it fills the screen of my iPad with 16 large knobs.
Quantum is giving you the choice between 3D and flat UI - very good idea !
Imaginando have created some apps with in my opinion excellent UIs: DRC, FRMS
And while we are at it and this is an AudioBus forum: AudioBus3. I do prefer the way AB3 shows the plugin UIs almost full screen to the windowed mode in AUM.
Negative example: Sugarbytes "DrumComputer". Don't get me wrong here. I do own DrumComputer, and I do love what is possible with this app, but that low contrast 3D UI is a pain to operate in a live setting. As a result Hammerhead is often my drum machine of choice when it comes to live playing.
And I notice that although I do own MiRack, Audulus4, and I am used to play hardware modulars, I rarely use these software modular synths. Although they are great apps, they are often optically and mentally just too much for me.
Talking about Drambo: I love it. The UI is in my opinion well thought through, and it is up to me how complex things I create with it.
I hate it when the font size is too small to read without reading glasses or a magnifying glass.
I hate it when devs make a bunch of unique icon buttons that I never remember what they do.
I hate when they have white against a very bright background, making things very difficult to see.
I hate it when the interface is too dark to make anything out.
I hate it when the dev uses the exact same icon for all their apps, with just some imperceptible text label to identify them.
I hate tiny, fiddly controls.
But whatever, I still get use out of them.
+1000. I’m all about interface now. Despite all the music apps I own, I still buy BLEASS apps because I know the interface will be intuitive, familiar, and transparent. I know working with them will be easier and quicker than whatever equivalent apps I already have.
A truly complex app is wonderful when it pulls you in and keeps you opening its secrets and you can’t live without it.
AUM is complex but overtime all of it’s wonders get exposed and mastered because it does most of what a DAW
Is need for but it the most elegant interface for a multitrack recording app. The updates just keep adding new features.
I think Drambo could have the same path for anyone craving its method of creating sequences.
Loopy Pro is calling me because it has a more elegant approach to mixing performances.
Cubasis 3 obviously produces finished work with enough effort to master a workflow.
These are just the DAW’s.
Synths can have the same qualities starting with surveying some presets to making sounds of your own.
Sequencers too.
This process of working your way into the intricacies of an app is called the “Learning Curve”. Thankfully folks like
@thesoundtestroom, @gavinski, @TheAudioDabbler, @sfm create videos to expose the details and demonstrate the results
Possible when you do.
Yep - for me the app, auv3, synth, fx or whatever has to be intuitive right from the get-go. If I try to do something basic & standard with it the first time of opening but can’t without having to refer to the manual or YouTube then it’s just not getting used - no matter how great other people say it is.
I’m all about getting projects finished to a deadline - anything that holds me up in that task is going in the bin. I’m all for devs experimenting with UI’s and stuff but stray too far away from the obvious then it’s going in the bin.
I’m all about reducing choices in a controlled manner, not increasing choices because “choice paralysis” is a real thing. And no - I don’t as a rule use romplers. I do use Drambo - but only as another auv3 soundsource in another sequencer (NS2) because I love its wavetable oscillators and what you can do with them: using it to just build synths was/is very intuitive so I found little to no manual reading was required 👍
But horses for courses, each to their own, other clichés are available.
Thanks for the reminder. I completely forgot to add BLEASS to the list of positive examples. I do love their clear and intuitive UIs.
Yep.... Beatcutter is a perfect example of this. I wonder how many people who bought it actually know how to use it. Later, I said to Igor, make simpler apps more regularly. Forget the complex once every couple of years app that is too hard for people to understand. You'll make more money and people will actually know how to use the apps. And indeed he did that. iOS is a hobbyist platform, people buy but don't want to rtfm. Sinan Boksoy's apps are another example of an overly complex interface that few buyers will bother learning, even though the rewards are great when you do.
Maybe complex apps are just apps you haven't learned yet. I remember that AUM was tricky to learn, but now it's so intuitive it's like it's not there.
And Drambo is insanely deep, but can also be very immediate, and keeps offering more, the longer you use it.
I understand @Svetlovska's preference for great one-shot apps (this is one of the best things about music on the iPad for me), but I don't think complex is necessarily the same as convoluted or difficult.
Both AUM and Drambo pulled me in from the start, despite the depths, because they are both extremely well-designed and approachable.
And Loopy is another goos example. Loopy Pro is way more complex than the old Loopy HD, but I find it a million times easier to use. Old Loopy always felt like it was fighting me, so although I knew it was great, I never used it.
Drambo seems overcomplicated to me. Would be cool if they release just the sequencer part as a new app and keep it simple. Reduce the amount of GUI layouts etc..
Beatcutter in Drambo seems complicated.
Hence watching SFM setup tutorial.
and send Beatcutter to Drambo via AUM.
Its actually cool and not bad for ocd.
To have some aum templates sending audio to drambo.
You cant edit mpe anyway for example.
Dual ipads though.
I 100% agree with the OP’s sentiments.
My concern sometimes is that I invest a huge amount of time into learning an app only to realise that it’s wasn’t worth it. I’ve had a few false starts with Drambo for example and I may never really “get it”.
On the other hand, investing that time can result in being hugely rewarded - for me, Scaler 2 is in that category. GeoShred is not a huge learning curve technically but actually playing it well takes time and practice.
Ultimately, my objective is writing complete pieces of music, writing, recording and producing songs and releasing albums. I totally accept that not all iOS apps are aimed at folk like me!
I wish for the same thing but the other way around (ie I have no need for the sequencer part but love the simplistic synth-building functionality).
If you create a new project based on the instrument template, you get exactly that.
Yeah - but I only use Drambo as a soundsource auv3 hosted in my sequencer of choice : under Drambo’s hood there’s a whole sequencer just sat there going unused and (I assume) taking up resources.
I don’t ever expect Drambo to change from what it is btw and it’s fantastic value for money - but for me as I only use it for it’s synth engine the rest is a bit overkill for my needs, even if its elements are hidden from view.
I know my onions where it comes to synthesis, but…
…these days I just can't be arsed
I don’t think I've touched a synth app since the middle of last year
I think it‘s taken me until my 60s to get over synthesis, done that, and return to what I originally needed to master – what makes a pop song communicate, and it certainly isn't complexity!
I am pretty much always using it just as a sequencer. I don’t know how you would go about reducing it? I just leave the clip view up and it’s basically just a sequencer only app at that point.
It’s fine liking things simple but not fine to mandate it for others. They say learning is the reward and I really enjoy digging in to the more complex and esoteric apps and stretching my capabilities a bit. Perhaps, occasionally, uncovering something unique. Igor Vasiliev’s VintageRack sounds great but for me, is his least interesting app.
the GUI , its like a transformer in disguise, flipping up/down, hidden actions etc... it's very confusing to me. It lacks a fun factor like it's been over designed through time. Just my personal thought. It is a good app but seems to be made for thinkers and not artists.
Not sure how its not for Artists. I could automate and edit everything on a track basis. Then automate and edit on a song basis. Doubt Id bother even moving audio to a daw.
You can midi record and automate everything even to the point of EQ.
Its the most pro solution on ios.
I’m looking forward to the new FAC app that will help us sort our AUv3s. And it’s by @FredAntonCorvest, so you know it’ll be good. I have a feeling it will help us use some of the more obscure instruments and effects we wouldn’t normally think of.
Now as far as host apps, I’ve found that the more I learn and use Drambo, the less and less I reach for AUM. I promise you if you keep trying and use it more often, it will eventually click and there will be that “ah hah” moment. The modular aspect of its built in modular synth is very deep, but that part of it is something you could ignore entirely if you wanted to.
You can just use the “groovebox” front end of Drambo, just like you would AUM; a place to load all your AUv3 apps, instruments and effects. And Drambo 2.0’s piano roll? Omg this is another part of it that has really just about superseded my need for Atom 2 as my favorite Piano roll! It’s really that slick! (unless I’m using Atom 2 in conjunction with Drambo, like taking advantage of Atom’s pattern tools to give me pattern switching within my pattern switchings in Drambo’s patterns, scenes, and clips.)
I like the creative type sequencer apps like Senode or Aphelian, but I can usually bang out what’s in my head into a piano roll and go from there. It depends if I have an interesting enough (to me) idea, melody, or chord progression in my head, or if I want to give some app the keys and let it sit in the driver’s seat.
I like Scaler 2. I think it’s great for thumbing through different chord progression ideas, but I’d never use it the way they want you to use it, (and build entire pieces with it using its pattern/song tools)
I have many examples that fit your description, but DrumPerfect is my biggest love-hate app relationship. I learned nearly all of Cubasis and AUM just by tinkering and experimenting. That approach got me nowhere with DPP. It’s impossible to use without studying the manual. You have to look up every little thing you want to do. Nothing is intuitive from the UI. And yet I can’t find anything better on iOS that does what it does.
Also re Model 15: the UI is beautiful to look at but terrible to use. I know how to work a modular, but those drawings of cables blocking the view of the modules really annoy me. I just use presets and maybe occasionally tweak the filter.