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Newbie Question: Turntable Connection via usb or interface
Hi there,
I think about getting a turntable. Just for the fun of it. Consuming music has become like fast food for me and I want to check out if a turntable and vinyl helps to slow my consumption and digestion a bit.
But if I'm getting one, I'd also like to have the possibility of sampling a chop now and then.
My current setup is: universal audio 276 right into a hub (where other stuff like midi keys etc comes in as well) and out to studio monitors.
The hub goes either to a MacBook Pro with Ableton or an iPad Pro with Loopy Pro (man that's lot's of pro for an hobbyist :-P) lately more often then not to the iPad where I use koala to sample (when I do. At the moment from screen recording Spotify ...).
So basically I want to do two things.
1: Sit down with a glass of wine and listen to Giant Steps. Probably with headphones.
2: Occasionally sample something into koala.
I have the AT-LP60x in mind. If so, with or without usb? How and why would you connect? Oh, and I read in another thread that for sampling direct drive is superior to belt? Is that so and why?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Comments
Direct drive usually has more force.
If you let down the tone arm in the middle of a track, it will act like a (small) brake.
This may be noticeable with players that need a few turns to get up to regular speed and momentum.
Belt drive headache sound omni lol.
A bit of tfx echo via blueboard.
With the fader part of deck. You get a knocking sound. More apparent in hifi mode when scratching or the opposite of scratch mode.
Need to set up DVS. So in theory there would be no knocking because its from a computer.
I guess Id be able to scratch beats, then optimise EQ for scratching.
Another test with koala. Is see how EQ gain sounds on no bass and low mid scratching. So re adding EQ, after scratch recording.
One of the ‘problems’ you’ll bump into on iOS if you connect using the hub is that you can not easily select which devices to use for playback and recording (ie. Turn-Table for sampling and UA276 for playback).
For desktop this is not a issue.
The recording from AT turntables over USB is [email protected]/48k which is ok considering it covers the entire dynamic range of the pickup it’s recording from.(they also act as in/out device so you can not use the iPad speaker to listen to the record while sampling which would be superb for Koala, you can still sample but you need to disconnect the turn-table if you want to hear the samples you’ve recorded).
You could also connect the turn-table to the back inputs of the UA276 but unless you host Koala in AUM you can not select inputs 3&4 for sampling in Koala… if you don’t need to use microphones to sample from use the front inputs and problem solved
(f I recall correctly 276 has inputs on the back, or was it the 476).
I’ve got the AT-120 something (direct drive thing) and it’s very nice, I’ve got it hooked to a marshal speaker which I use to listen to the record while sampling, and once done sampling I disconnect it and edit the samples using the iPad speakers or headphones using usb-c > 3.5mm jack.
But it’ll be a blast but prepare to spend some time setting it up.
Cheers!
Samu.
If Omni deck is 16/bit 48k. Which will probably be line in audio to IOS host. 24 bit/ 48k in host, at the mo.
You think the 48k in IOS host is essential if deck and line in is 48k.
Where as it would just be 16 bit sample in a 24bit song.
Or can I just choose any bit and sample rate in host and not worry what a turntable input is.
and I were going to sample for dj program with ipad and send to phone because of screen size.
Should I sample in 16 bit/48k.
Which means either using phone which will be set to this rate.
Or use an app like audioshare to sample at 16 bit/48k, if airdropping.
If audioshar does actually bypass host/interface settings for recordings or does resample a sample, after.
It seems alright for the price for a casual user. Im tempted to get one myself.
I’d connect it by whatever is convenient at the time.. its got the Built in RIAA spec pre amp (so no need for DJ Mixer). Im guessing connecting via audio in will be most convenient for you for headphone listening to records, and sampling when you want to. Theres little point in worrying about noise with vinyl as CD is so much better 😈 😉 but I suspect your audio interface will beat the turntables USB interface for quality.. your gonna end up at 24bit and more inside so maybe might as well start there.
If the hardware is 16-bit there’s no point in bit-padding it to 24 as most daws work at 32-bit float regardless if the source is 16-bit or 24-bit. So ‘up-sampling’ 16 to 24 gains nothing more than larger files.
Most new iDevice hardware locked to 48k, using 44.1 will just force re-sampling up to 48k.
The best advice is to use the ears and not focus too much on bit-depth and sample-rate
The built-in AD conversion in th AT turntables is clean and well calibrated for the dynamic range of the pickup.
There’s more noise in the RCA output which will just get amplified when connecting it to another interface for recording…
So it can be anything.
But probably best to leave at 48k and 24 bit ( max setting of interface )
Got idea of how it works.
Max setting of interface. Using app to then resample for different media platforms. Platforms will resample anyway. You cant use app to redo in higher values ( of either bit or k ) Not sure about that.
Lol.
You could start by swapping “consuming” for “listening to.” Then you could start to view music as the art form it is, rather than as an interchangeable unit of commerce.
I can either have hosts and interface be 48k 24 bit.
Turntable will be 48k 16 bit.
Dj player might be best just importing 16 bit of any type of file.
So I may have to make sure they are 16 bit.
Which then ends up in Koala, with host at 48k 24 bit.
I guess it makes sense from an ocd thing for everthing to be 16 bit 48k. If this is the most for deck. The spec for youtube etc.
Will it matter much if I just keep 24 bit. Do I just need to make sure the samples for dj program are 16bit and then maybe use an app to make a song 16 bit for youtube or just let youtube make it 16 bit.
If im correct.
Is it still best to have 24bit and convert the dj pragram samples.
Or because of deck. Just make everything 16 bit.
Il just keep as is 24 bit 48k.
Use my phone for sampling for dvs at 16 bit/48k.
Thanks Mowag.
No vinyl record can deliver a 16bit dynamic (or resolution) due to surface noise of the material. Which is between -70 to -80 dB if in perfect condition iirc.
(translated to bits that means 12 to 13 bits are possible)
Yup, I guess you're right that going through two amps amplifies the noise (adds the 2nd pre amps noise from audio interface too) but vinyls noise floor is so high anyway, myself, I'd just go with what's convenient and I'd avoid bothering with the aggregate thing on Mac, if I didn't need the analogue ins.
If I was archiving vinyl to digital, id care a lot more but if I was sampling something i'm probably gonna do cutting EQ to .. It's not a concern to me but then again, I haven't sampled from vinyl in over 20 years and maybe I'd notice the double noise more with the better gear and skills I have nowadays.
I might try an experiment with 3 instances of AUgen and noise at the various levels and decide I’m wrong and that its a good job I don’t have a record player.
Does the RIAA curve get applied pre preamp?
Yes, it’s a proper line output and sounds ok.
Most of the time I’ve got it hooked up to the Marshall Stanmore speaker for listening to old records.
The bigger difference in quality can be had with a better pickup, there’s plenty of videos on the ATH turntables on YouTube and most are happy with them
Thank you all so much for the input!
I ordered last night (+a bunch of adapters, you never know …) and am nervous for new gear day 😁
Another stupid question. When I hook it up via usb it doesn’t matter if I switch to phono or line, right?
If I plug it into the interface (which has a built in preamp), I switch to line to use the internal preamp (and switch off the interfaces preamp) or to phono to bypass the internal preamp, but then activate the interfaces preamp. Right?
Correct, the USB port gets it signal from the RIAA pre-amp.
Don't mix up RIAA Pre-Amp and Interface Pre-Amp they are NOT the same thing.
If you plan to use the RCA outputs for sampling you better leave it in Line instead of Phono unless you like a hissy treble mess with no bass...
Thanks for the fast reply @Samu
I was indeed thinking „preamp is preamp“ …
I am very critical of having built -in Riaa and Usb in the turntable. What happens is that to contain costs they will have low performance. Much better to have a traditional turntable with a good external Riaa. Then, in case of recording with computer you can use an audio interface