SOLVED: Switch Issue with Blueboard - anyone else?

pax-eterna

Just got back to trying to use an iPad as a drum unit on stage and controlling it with the iRig Blueboard.

Switches on the BB work ok as I have set them in the Lumbeat apps, however they only work when being held down? I don't recall that being the default operation of the pedal. And there seems to be no setting in the BB control app to alter the switch operation (either momentary or latched).

Using the board in "C" mode, or sending CC messages.

Is this how they work now? AFAIK, it is the latest FW (although that is now pretty old) @ 1.2

Tried the IK Forum and they just say it's not a support forum (hahaha!) and to contact IK Tech support. Which of course I did several days before posting on the "non-support" forum. With the usual response form IK Tech of silence, aside from the bot generated initial reply.

espiegel123

@pax-eterna said:
Just got back to trying to use an iPad as a drum unit on stage and controlling it with the iRig Blueboard.

Switches on the BB work ok as I have set them in the Lumbeat apps, however they only work when being held down? I don't recall that being the default operation of the pedal. And there seems to be no setting in the BB control app to alter the switch operation (either momentary or latched).

Using the board in "C" mode, or sending CC messages.

Is this how they work now? AFAIK, it is the latest FW (although that is now pretty old) @ 1.2

Tried the IK Forum and they just say it's not a support forum (hahaha!) and to contact IK Tech support. Which of course I did several days before posting on the "non-support" forum. With the usual response form IK Tech of silence, aside from the bot generated initial reply.

are you using the blueboard directly or the blueboard app?

use a midi monitor to see what the blueboard is sending. in notes and cc modes, the blueboard sends one message when the pad goes down and another when it is released.

what do you mean "they only work when held down"? this sounds like something's setup may need to be changed in the receiving app...but more details are needed.

wim

I'm happy to try some tests if you describe in detail what you're trying to do in the Lumbeats apps.

pax-eterna

thanks guys.

Using the BB in AUM to control Lumbeat drum apps..Confirmed in a MIDI monitor the CC messages with the assigned numbers are being sent.

The CC's do change the drum app (example: stop,start, fill to ride, fill fill to outtro etc) but only when I hold the switch down. I read in the tiny BB manual that in one particular setting it sends a message for footswitch push and then again on release but that is set to off. Checked it in the BB App.

wim

Can we get a screenshot of the messages in the midi monitor?

pax-eterna

ok, so I have it working as it should, but using the BB App (Mode A). Select it in (say) Soft Drummer and it all works. The only issue is as they are IAA apps they all need to be open as I vary between Soft Drummer, Jazz drummer, Funk Drummer and Rock Drummer.

Pedal can only be set to one channel, so obviously what happens is they all start to play. hahaha! Which is why I wanted to use in AUM, so I can re-map the MIDI channel and set each drum app accordingly.

Trouble is when I then set BB to C mode ( the one needed for CC messaging) AUM can see it and pair, but it then does not work with the drum apps hahaha!

Well, to amend that a bit, it DOES work (and in exactly the same way as with the BB App mode A) however it only works with the switch held down. When using the BB app the switches function as you'd expect (press and release).

So to give an example of that when I press the switch assigned to Fill to Ride - it goes to it, but as soon as I release the switch it just goes back to standard beat....it's like the switch is send an on message when pressed and an off message when released, confirmed from the manual.

These are the specifications for the MIDI over Bluetooth mode 2:
Transmit Channel: 1 / Receive Channel: 1
Transmitting:
Switch A: CC#20, momentary operation
Switch B: CC#21, momentary operation
Switch C: CC#22, momentary operation
Switch CC#23, momentary operation
Value 127 is sent when the foot switch is pressed, and value 0 is sent when foot switch is released.

espiegel123

@pax-eterna said:
thanks guys.

Using the BB in AUM to control Lumbeat drum apps..Confirmed in a MIDI monitor the CC messages with the assigned numbers are being sent.

The CC's do change the drum app (example: stop,start, fill to ride, fill fill to outtro etc) but only when I hold the switch down. I read in the tiny BB manual that in one particular setting it sends a message for footswitch push and then again on release but that is set to off. Checked it in the BB App.

I think you need to show us your AUM midi control set up. And explain exact what you are trying to do and what isn’t working.

The BB sends a 127 when you press and a 0 when you release. You probably need to set the midi mapping to toggle mode or something.

pax-eterna

Jeez i think I've explained it pretty well tbh!

wim

This is probably going to end up needing a short Streambyter script, or use of something like mfxConvert. I'm pretty sure it's solvable. But having to have all those apps running is likely to be problematic. There's no telling when iOS might decide it needs to unload one of them to free up resources. Also as IAA apps, the probability of ghost processes and weirdness goes up with multiple apps. Lumbeats apps ain't the most stable with MIDI in my experience either.

Sorry for the negativeness. Better to be realistic when someone is considering use in live settings. That said, I'll do some tinkering now that I have a better idea what you're trying to do.

I know for sure this same topic of using Lumbeats and AUM for live work has come up before. Was that you that brought this up maybe a year ago?

espiegel123

@pax-eterna said:
Jeez i think I've explained it pretty well tbh!

Jeez?

espiegel123

You haven’t shown how you have midi control set up in AUM. As I said, from what you have described, it sounds like you need to set something up as a toggle rather than to receive the raw CC.

espiegel123

As a result it is on while you hold the button down…because the bb sends 127 when you press down. And then turns off when you release the button when the BB sends 0 (off)

espiegel123

@pax-eterna : it looks like you added details at the same time that I posted my comment about needing more details.

It sound like, as wim said, what you want requires a script to sit between your Blueboard and your target so that press 1 sends 127 and press 2 sends 0. Streambyter or Mozaic can do that for you.

pax-eterna

@espiegel123 said:
You haven’t shown how you have midi control set up in AUM. As I said, from what you have described, it sounds like you need to set something up as a toggle rather than to receive the raw CC.

All I have done in AUM is go to Bluetooth and pair the BB. Then I load a channel, insert the drum app go to the drum app and set the input to AUM + BB - won't work with either/or - then try to use it. The BB is connected (under the MIDI Routing tab) to the drum app.

Where do you set it as a toggle? I looked under the midi setting area...

pax-eterna

I know it is a toggle -v- momentary issue going on...just cannot figure how to change it in AUM.

And why when running the BB in the BB APP and then loading up a single drum app it works 100%

I would have thought if it worked under the BB app, it should simply work under AUM the same way haha!

wim

OK, so things behave much better if you use notes rather than CCs. To do this you want to turn the Blueboard off, then hold down the B switch while turning on the Blueboard. Button A sends C3, B sends D3, C sends E3, and D sends F3.

Try mapping those to the functions you want to use in the app. I have had success with Play, Fill, and Select Next and Previous pads. That's all I've tested.

espiegel123

@pax-eterna said:

@espiegel123 said:
You haven’t shown how you have midi control set up in AUM. As I said, from what you have described, it sounds like you need to set something up as a toggle rather than to receive the raw CC.

All I have done in AUM is go to Bluetooth and pair the BB. Then I load a channel, insert the drum app go to the drum app and set the input to AUM + BB - won't work with either/or - then try to use it. The BB is connected (under the MIDI Routing tab) to the drum app.

Where do you set it as a toggle? I looked under the midi setting area...

It is in midi control. The option is called Cycle . But now that I look, it only applies to AU parameters that are on off.

So, to send to a IAA app, you will need a simple script to imitate that behavior.

espiegel123

@pax-eterna : do you have Mozaic?

pax-eterna

@espiegel123 said:

@pax-eterna said:

@espiegel123 said:
You haven’t shown how you have midi control set up in AUM. As I said, from what you have described, it sounds like you need to set something up as a toggle rather than to receive the raw CC.

All I have done in AUM is go to Bluetooth and pair the BB. Then I load a channel, insert the drum app go to the drum app and set the input to AUM + BB - won't work with either/or - then try to use it. The BB is connected (under the MIDI Routing tab) to the drum app.

Where do you set it as a toggle? I looked under the midi setting area...

It is in midi control. The option is called Cycle . But now that I look, it only applies to AU parameters that are on off.

So, to send to a IAA app, you will need a simple script to imitate that behavior.

Yeah thanks. I was looking at buying the MIDI module for Audiobus 3, but wasn't sure it would do what I needed.

@wim said:
OK, so things behave much better if you use notes rather than CCs. To do this you want to turn the Blueboard off, then hold down the B switch while turning on the Blueboard. Button A sends C3, B sends D3, C sends E3, and D sends F3.

Try mapping those to the functions you want to use in the app. I have had success with Play, Fill, and Select Next and Previous pads. That's all I've tested.

I looked at that mode - but not enough functions...I don't use the pads at all only the various fill and play buttons next to them.

pax-eterna

@espiegel123 said:
@pax-eterna : do you have Mozaic?

I think I bought it a couple of years back but I couldn't figure how to work it hahaha!

espiegel123

@pax-eterna said:

@espiegel123 said:

@pax-eterna said:

@espiegel123 said:
You haven’t shown how you have midi control set up in AUM. As I said, from what you have described, it sounds like you need to set something up as a toggle rather than to receive the raw CC.

All I have done in AUM is go to Bluetooth and pair the BB. Then I load a channel, insert the drum app go to the drum app and set the input to AUM + BB - won't work with either/or - then try to use it. The BB is connected (under the MIDI Routing tab) to the drum app.

Where do you set it as a toggle? I looked under the midi setting area...

It is in midi control. The option is called Cycle . But now that I look, it only applies to AU parameters that are on off.

So, to send to a IAA app, you will need a simple script to imitate that behavior.

Yeah thanks. I was looking at buying the MIDI module for Audiobus 3, but wasn't sure it would do what I needed.

@wim said:
OK, so things behave much better if you use notes rather than CCs. To do this you want to turn the Blueboard off, then hold down the B switch while turning on the Blueboard. Button A sends C3, B sends D3, C sends E3, and D sends F3.

Try mapping those to the functions you want to use in the app. I have had success with Play, Fill, and Select Next and Previous pads. That's all I've tested.

I looked at that mode - but not enough functions...I don't use the pads at all only the various fill and play buttons next to them.

What do you mean by “not enough functions”?

wim

@pax-eterna said:

@espiegel123 said:

@pax-eterna said:

@espiegel123 said:
You haven’t shown how you have midi control set up in AUM. As I said, from what you have described, it sounds like you need to set something up as a toggle rather than to receive the raw CC.

All I have done in AUM is go to Bluetooth and pair the BB. Then I load a channel, insert the drum app go to the drum app and set the input to AUM + BB - won't work with either/or - then try to use it. The BB is connected (under the MIDI Routing tab) to the drum app.

Where do you set it as a toggle? I looked under the midi setting area...

It is in midi control. The option is called Cycle . But now that I look, it only applies to AU parameters that are on off.

So, to send to a IAA app, you will need a simple script to imitate that behavior.

Yeah thanks. I was looking at buying the MIDI module for Audiobus 3, but wasn't sure it would do what I needed.

@wim said:
OK, so things behave much better if you use notes rather than CCs. To do this you want to turn the Blueboard off, then hold down the B switch while turning on the Blueboard. Button A sends C3, B sends D3, C sends E3, and D sends F3.

Try mapping those to the functions you want to use in the app. I have had success with Play, Fill, and Select Next and Previous pads. That's all I've tested.

I looked at that mode - but not enough functions...I don't use the pads at all only the various fill and play buttons next to them.

?

I don't understand. Notes mode is the same as CC mode except it sends notes rather than CC's. There's still only four buttons. Those buttons can be mapped to anything you want in the midi settings of the apps. You don't have to use the pads mode at all.

What functions do you want to assign to the Blueboard buttons? Assigning the functions simply involves finding the functions you want in the list on the MIDI settings page, then setting the notes for the ones you want to the notes the Blueboard sends.

pax-eterna

I need a Fill - Fill to Ride - Play/Pause - Fill to start/End

That mode only does two play functions and next/previous pad - as I wrote I don't use pads at all.

espiegel123

@pax-eterna said:
I need a Fill - Fill to Ride - Play/Pause - Fill to start/End

That mode only does two play functions and next/previous pad - as I wrote I don't use pads at all.

You can use the BB’s notes mode for those. You don’t need CCs to do that.

pax-eterna

@wim said:

@pax-eterna said:

@espiegel123 said:

@pax-eterna said:

@espiegel123 said:
You haven’t shown how you have midi control set up in AUM. As I said, from what you have described, it sounds like you need to set something up as a toggle rather than to receive the raw CC.

All I have done in AUM is go to Bluetooth and pair the BB. Then I load a channel, insert the drum app go to the drum app and set the input to AUM + BB - won't work with either/or - then try to use it. The BB is connected (under the MIDI Routing tab) to the drum app.

Where do you set it as a toggle? I looked under the midi setting area...

It is in midi control. The option is called Cycle . But now that I look, it only applies to AU parameters that are on off.

So, to send to a IAA app, you will need a simple script to imitate that behavior.

Yeah thanks. I was looking at buying the MIDI module for Audiobus 3, but wasn't sure it would do what I needed.

@wim said:
OK, so things behave much better if you use notes rather than CCs. To do this you want to turn the Blueboard off, then hold down the B switch while turning on the Blueboard. Button A sends C3, B sends D3, C sends E3, and D sends F3.

Try mapping those to the functions you want to use in the app. I have had success with Play, Fill, and Select Next and Previous pads. That's all I've tested.

I looked at that mode - but not enough functions...I don't use the pads at all only the various fill and play buttons next to them.

?

I don't understand. Notes mode is the same as CC mode except it sends notes rather than CC's. There's still only four buttons. Those buttons can be mapped to anything you want in the midi settings of the apps. You don't have to use the pads mode at all.

What functions do you want to assign to the Blueboard buttons? Assigning the functions simply involves finding the functions you want in the list on the MIDI settings page, then setting the notes for the ones you want to the notes the Blueboard sends.

Sorry I should have specified - it is the 4Board Map

pax-eterna

I'll try the Notes mode though and see how I go.

pax-eterna

@wim said:
This is probably going to end up needing a short Streambyter script, or use of something like mfxConvert. I'm pretty sure it's solvable. But having to have all those apps running is likely to be problematic. There's no telling when iOS might decide it needs to unload one of them to free up resources. Also as IAA apps, the probability of ghost processes and weirdness goes up with multiple apps. Lumbeats apps ain't the most stable with MIDI in my experience either.

Sorry for the negativeness. Better to be realistic when someone is considering use in live settings. That said, I'll do some tinkering now that I have a better idea what you're trying to do.

I know for sure this same topic of using Lumbeats and AUM for live work has come up before. Was that you that brought this up maybe a year ago?

yeah it probs was, but that was pre-COVID!

Yeah I know, right! It's why I keep popping back in to the forum from time to time to see if either Martinez or some other dev has finally created an AUv3 version of a similar drum machine! Would make setting up songs soooo much easier haha!

These apps live are unsurpassed! It's just a bit of a sh@tfight to get it all working. And I know having those four open at one time is/could be problematic...but this ipad is pretty much dedicated for just these. my other iPad (the pro) is tasked to other stuff

espiegel123

@pax-eterna said:

@wim said:

@pax-eterna said:

@espiegel123 said:

@pax-eterna said:

@espiegel123 said:
You haven’t shown how you have midi control set up in AUM. As I said, from what you have described, it sounds like you need to set something up as a toggle rather than to receive the raw CC.

All I have done in AUM is go to Bluetooth and pair the BB. Then I load a channel, insert the drum app go to the drum app and set the input to AUM + BB - won't work with either/or - then try to use it. The BB is connected (under the MIDI Routing tab) to the drum app.

Where do you set it as a toggle? I looked under the midi setting area...

It is in midi control. The option is called Cycle . But now that I look, it only applies to AU parameters that are on off.

So, to send to a IAA app, you will need a simple script to imitate that behavior.

Yeah thanks. I was looking at buying the MIDI module for Audiobus 3, but wasn't sure it would do what I needed.

@wim said:
OK, so things behave much better if you use notes rather than CCs. To do this you want to turn the Blueboard off, then hold down the B switch while turning on the Blueboard. Button A sends C3, B sends D3, C sends E3, and D sends F3.

Try mapping those to the functions you want to use in the app. I have had success with Play, Fill, and Select Next and Previous pads. That's all I've tested.

I looked at that mode - but not enough functions...I don't use the pads at all only the various fill and play buttons next to them.

?

I don't understand. Notes mode is the same as CC mode except it sends notes rather than CC's. There's still only four buttons. Those buttons can be mapped to anything you want in the midi settings of the apps. You don't have to use the pads mode at all.

What functions do you want to assign to the Blueboard buttons? Assigning the functions simply involves finding the functions you want in the list on the MIDI settings page, then setting the notes for the ones you want to the notes the Blueboard sends.

Sorry I should have specified - it is the 4Board Map

You can change any mappings in the 4board map to use a note instead of a cc

wim

I don't get what you mean by "its the 4Board map". That one has "Prev Pad" and "Next Pad", but you said you don't use those?

Anyway, I tapped 4Board Pad, then Learn, and hit button A. It auto mapped the buttons in some way I don't get.

I don't know anything about the 4board map thing. I just manually mapped the buttons as I needed them.

pax-eterna

it's for swapping the LIVE PADS from one to another. afaik that is all it can be used for no matter what function (note or CC) commands it. And the only other two fixed functions are Play and Fill. That's going on the limited (VERY) manual or other info out there.

pax-eterna

@wim said:
OK, so things behave much better if you use notes rather than CCs. To do this you want to turn the Blueboard off, then hold down the B switch while turning on the Blueboard. Button A sends C3, B sends D3, C sends E3, and D sends F3.

Try mapping those to the functions you want to use in the app. I have had success with Play, Fill, and Select Next and Previous pads. That's all I've tested.

This I am going to try!