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What makes a DAW ”pro”, or, how long is a thread?
As long as you want it to be, right?
But, I am still curious. With the recent addition to our little corner of the world (soon to be a lot larger I believe) in the form of LP, I am still looking for the answer to this question:
What makes a DAW ”pro”?
For years I have heard people write and say ” you can’t make pro music without this and that”, or ”you can’t make pro music on an iPad, it lacks too many this and that”, or ’DAWs on iOS are so limited and can’t be used on a pro level”…
Now we start having ”pro” DAWs, and is this the new benchmark level now? Or are people still looking for that perfect DAW with ”this and that” making it ”pro” beyond the next hill?
What do you think? Are we there yet to be en par with desktop on a ”pro” level, and if not, what is it that can’t be done on iOS in one way or another? What makes a DAW ”pro” other than collecting many useful functions in one place?
Regards,
DMfan🇸🇪
Comments
What makes a DAW ”pro”?
Quick response that many Pro particularly famous producer and sound engineers use this daw to produce professional output , do mixing and mastering at level of Grammy Awards.
That mean that this daw is reliable on a professional workflow and have all flexibility need a pro producer.
Logic Pro is a Pro daw Desktop, what about iOS Logic IPad ? It will deserve the Pro when more professional will use it as main part of their production workflow.
As far the word Pro is real and not a marketing definition this is how a Daw or any FX deserve to be named as Pro.
If I follow this rules Logic Pro IPad is not a pro Daw it should become a pro Daw with time and more pro going to produce on IPad even IPad only. It should take at least 1 to 3 years perhaps more.
I see it as “If I were to be doing x for a living then would this software let me do x as efficiently as possible and with the best quality possible?”. If you have sufficient talent then I think quality-wise then you can create music on the iPad that would be indistinguishable from that done on the desktop for many genres. Whether the start to finish process can be done on an iPad as efficiently as the desktop is the bit that I think is less clear, and in fact may vary depending on the genre of music we are talking about and the which stage of the process we are talking about. Sketching an idea on iPad may be very efficient and convenient but arranging the flow of a song might be better with a desktop with a large monitor, for example.
If you are earning your living from getting as much done in as short a space of time at the best quality then you are not going to hobble yourself by limiting the environments you can work in. As hobbyists we can take our time with our art and put up with projects being corrupted or hacks to get things done, but professionals (people who earn money from the activity) will be less forgiving.
Tbf, Madlib made Grammy award winning using just an iPad. He’s been ipad only since 2017/18 so it’s definitely possible. That said, he still probably had it mastered professionally. But 90% can be done on the iPad and for the most part, as an indie musician, you can do it all.
As far as BM3, I mostly use it as an MPC type device rather than a DAW and that’s what made me like it so much.
cough That's what the newlyweds said. cough
🤪
In my opinion...it needs to be able to do a lot. It needs MIDI and audio tracks. Import and export of MIDI. Import and export of audio stems. Freezing tracks. Automation of third party plugins. Audio routing and aux sends. Some decent stock instruments and effects. Etc.
In that sense, Auria Pro was the cream of the crop for the longest time when it comes to a "pro" DAW, although I could never get on with it as a lot of the gestures and such to make things happen were cumbersome for me personally. Your mileage may vary.
It seems that Logic Pro for iPad balances better "ease of use" and "lots of features", although if I recall correctly it can't export MIDI which is a big no-no if it ever wants to be a truly professional DAW.
But I can still see myself making productions with it. I'm working on a new Lofi beat in it to keep testing the waters.
There really is no such thing as the "perfect DAW", not even on desktop. It was and always will be down to "personal workflow". Some people love Ableton Live. I never could gel with the demo on desktop and thus stuck with FL Studio, which was the perfect DAW for me. FL still is the perfect desktop DAW if I owned a laptop/desktop, lol.
True. I always viewed iOS as a piecemeal DAW. One app would act as the 24-track tape console. Another app would act as the MIDI sequencer of synths like an old Atari music composer PC from the 80s. You could master in an app itself or in a separate app (I used to use Grand Finale). Etc.
That said, I have created remixes in Nanostudio 2 for the 90s Dance Music group extraordinaire named "Sash!". One of their 2022 single "Rainbow", another of their amazing song "Together Again" from their "Trilenium" album. Both are up on Youtube. Just search "sash (name of song) jwm". Despite NS2's lack of audio tracks, I made it work.
Back in 2021 when I produced the "Together Again" remix, Sascha couldn't find the original vocals, and Koala Sampler either didn't have Samurai Mode yet, or I wasn't aware it did, or if Samurai Mode was even necessary to use the spleeter algo to split off the vocals from the mix, and we asked DJs from Mars to assist with extracting the vocals given DJs from Mars are known for their legendary EDM mashups. 😆
Crazy times.
Reliability, workflow, comprehensive editing, hosting of other apps.
I seriously couldn’t give a monkeys about included synths, fx, and soundpacks, that’s just bloat that gets in the way of the job I want an arrangement tool to do.
Still looking on iOS.
Any DAW used by pros to actually make money.
I have given up on the word 'pro' in the same way I have given up on the word 'art'. Life is better now.
'Pro' is almost entirely a marketing buzzword made to think hobbyists/amateurs think they can buy something and magically get better results. I'm hip to the scam and I've still been taken in many times.
a way to tier levels of software or anything really. Levels of quality, pricing, value, etc… Pro does imply a certain standard or level of features, connectivity, compatibility, quality, etc… or at least access to all of these available features, but the word pro has become ubiquitous. It doesn’t really mean much to me on the surface, not until I understand the actual difference between “Pro” “standard” “Lite” etc… of a specific item, can I tell you what pro means in their language.
Apps can't be professional. Only humans have the capacity to be professional.
Various definitions cite requirements as having qualifications, and others 'see' the distinction as the results of one's particular pursuit(s) bringing in an income. Those who make money from music are considered professionals, regardless of the tools they use.
Well...perhaps not
"Pro" is just a marketing term. Talented musicians can work with the limitations of any instrument or tool they have. In fact, one might make a good argument for "the more limitations, the better"! Limitations force a person to think more creatively.
Price
Thank you all for sharing you thoughts!
If we don’t get into the word ”pro” that deep, it seems the general view is that a pro DAW is a tool that one can use without a fuzz to make a living. There should be minor or no gripes at all regarding functions or workflow, although workflow is always subjective.
Another take on it is that any music DAW is ”pro” in the hands of an experienced and competent musician/producer, will yield pro results.
/DMfan🇸🇪
+1
The cynic in me regards anything labelled Pro as being largely a way to justify a higher price. Which isn’t really the case, but some people are obsessed with pro-this and pro-that to the point of lunacy.
I think it was Ansel Adams who said (I paraphrase) that if you can’t take good photos with a basic camera, buying an expensive one won’t help. If you can take good pictures, it might make it easier to do.
So often I see the stuff about how you can’t do “pro” music on iOS (much more on FB than here, to be fair), yet plainly people can and do, and happily did before LPx arrived (which turns out to be less of a holy grail than many thought).
I’m in the camp that says a real pro (person rather than tools) could probably make something worthwhile with a couple of sticks and a dictaphone (yes, kids, that’s hyperbole…), and doesn’t need a Pro label slapped on everything to act as some sort of special sauce and make them feel artificially competent.
That said, I get the argument about doing things quickly and efficiently if you’re trying to make a living at this stuff. But then horses for courses: for me (for example), AUM is way more quick/efficient than using a standard DAW (pro or not). Then again, I’m not trying to convince myself I’m a “pro”.
+1
Spot on!
/DMfan🇸🇪
Just watched this and I think it added a well-known but hard to admit nice end to the discussion. It’s not the tool, it can have all the bells and whistles there is. If you don’t know how to use it properly, no ”pro” designation will make the result any better. Or, any DAW, can most likely become ”pro” in the hands of a experienced and talented user.
/DMfan🇸🇪
Are you including the developers?…
Absolutely THIS.