How to produce music ala Justice's "Cross" album? 🙂

jwmmakerofmusic

Hi mates,

Well, it's that time again mates (seems like it comes about once every six months). I'm looking to learn a new style of music production, and it's Justice's "Cross" album that has caught my ear properly. I've searched for interviews, advice, and videos online and haven't really found anything much related to what I'm looking for. (I found more interviews regarding "Woman" and "Audio, Video, Disco" instead of "Cross" which has the more hard electro sounds mixed with Disco).

Here's what I know so far. I know that Justice has produced "Cross" mostly in Garageband as far as I'm aware, at least according to one interview I read from 2008. Although I do plan to try my hand at this in Logic (which is basically Garageband's big brother) as the mixing tools are (for me personally) very excellent, but really I'm a chameleon and can float between any apps recommended to me.

I also know that Justice make use of a technique called "microsampling" and probably use the OTT plugin on the instrument buss to compress the heckfire out of said microsamples (for which the iOS equivalent is WooTT, by the legendary @brambos of course).

I'm going to guess that @brambos ' Hilda and AudioThing's Crusher are absolutely necessary to come up with that thick harsh electro bass. And I'm guessing using some dry live drum samples and processing the heck out of them with something like Beef and WooTT are also recommended (and I have said dry live drum samples from Image-Line's "Real Drumkits" pack).

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So here are my questions. First of all, do you know of any Youtube videos and interviews and classes on Udemy that I'm not yet aware of? It's okay if you recommend something to me that I've already seen as I'm looking to have this as a compilation of knowledge even for others who are interested in this same topic and genre.

Secondly, how does one go about microsampling? I asked a mate of mine what his top 3 favourite songs are, and songs by the Average White Band, 10cc, and Beatles were mentioned. Perfect fodder for that 60s/70s aesthetic to be sampled, so I already have my source material.

Thirdly, which apps would you recommend I use? (They can be ones I don't have yet as well as ones I already have but forgot I have lol. Again, I'm looking to compile some knowledge here.) Is there another DAW you'd recommend on iPad other than Logic Pro? What other processing plugins? Would Koala be a good app for the microsampling?

Fourth, what other techniques would you recommend to achieve the Justice sound besides microsampling and using WooTT as well as heavy usage of sidechain compression on the instrument buss?

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As always, any help is much appreciated. And if you have any other advice outside of the questions that can add to the overall thread here or a completely different take on the thread (so long as it helps me and others learn to produce like Justice), that'd be much appreciated. Cheers. 🍻

jwmmakerofmusic

I know the original post is a bit of a slog to read, so I'll summarise.

I'm looking to get into producing the type of sound Justice have on their "Cross" album. Any advice that I may not be aware of yet?

telecharge

Have you already read through the Wikipedia article about it and the links from there?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_(Justice_album)
"It features many samples and "microsamples" throughout, with about 400 albums being used as sampled material."

http://www.mtv.com/news/1599116/french-duo-justice-reveal-songwriting-sampling-secrets-50-cent-slipknot-take-note/
"We do sample really small bits of things that nobody can recognize. Say we use the "In Da Club" hand clap – not even 50 Cent would notice but if you listen to "Genesis", the first track [on Cross], there are samples of Slipknot, Queen and 50 Cent, but they are such short samples no one can recognize them. The ones from Slipknot, for example, are tiny pieces of vocals."

I'd have to guess apps listed in this thread would work well for this technique - https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/51323/can-we-list-all-granular-synths-on-ios

BroCoast

Use the stock Garageband distortion with the tone/filter wide open (20k)
Use the stock Garageband Linn kits.

Microsample parts from popular music, i.e. vocal bits but piece them together to make them sound like they’re saying something different. Daft punk do that a lot.

Synth bass parts are just basic subtractive but with lots of distortion. Model D, MS20 etc.

Side chain the shit out of everything. Make kick and snare way loud in the mix so that when your whole mix hits the limiter it gives that sucking effect.

Use the default Remix FX on the drum bus or mix bus to get your stutter/variations and that should get you most of the way there.

For chord progressions look to metal/prog and use the Minor 2nd chord & diminished a lot.

senhorlampada

@BroCoast beat me to it regarding Alex's video

Regarding synths, I would add that Unique and Poison-202 will be interesting for a Justice track too.

On the microsampling side, check this out for some inspiration:

sevenape

just copy daft punk like Justice did.

pedro

Brutal 🤭

sevenape

hahaha!

jwmmakerofmusic

@telecharge I never thought to use anything granular for the microsampling technique, lol. But yeah, that article is where I learned the term "microsampling", which is what I was asking about. 🤪

@BroCoast Absolute legend! Great advice, and great video mate! Cheers.

@senhorlampada Checking out your video once I'm finished typing this reply.

@sevenape Ha! 🤣🤣🤣 Great, just what I need. A new rabbit hole to go down, aka the "how did Daft Punk create their older music" rabbit hole. But I think Senhor's video will help me in that regard.

jwmmakerofmusic

@senhorlampada Wicked video! Helped me gain plenty of insights. I left a comment requesting he cover Justice "Cross" next. If anyone can do it, he sure can, lol.

AudioGus

Just hit random in loopmix a half dozen times, it should pop up.

Blipsford_Baubie

@sevenape said:
just copy daft punk like Justice did.

and to add to this, look up French Touch. It’ll give you a glimpse of other artists who ran in the same circle as Daft Punk.

NeuM

@telecharge said:
Have you already read through the Wikipedia article about it and the links from there?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_(Justice_album)
"It features many samples and "microsamples" throughout, with about 400 albums being used as sampled material."

http://www.mtv.com/news/1599116/french-duo-justice-reveal-songwriting-sampling-secrets-50-cent-slipknot-take-note/
"We do sample really small bits of things that nobody can recognize. Say we use the "In Da Club" hand clap – not even 50 Cent would notice but if you listen to "Genesis", the first track [on Cross], there are samples of Slipknot, Queen and 50 Cent, but they are such short samples no one can recognize them. The ones from Slipknot, for example, are tiny pieces of vocals."

I'd have to guess apps listed in this thread would work well for this technique - https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/51323/can-we-list-all-granular-synths-on-ios

If you’re a player in the pop music business, taking dozens of samples for each song means you owe every one of the artists you sampled money for their work. That makes no sense in a business that typically has very thin profit margins on music sales.

telecharge

@NeuM said:
If you’re a player in the pop music business, taking dozens of samples for each song means you owe every one of the artists you sampled money for their work. That makes no sense in a business that typically has very thin profit margins on music sales.

I have no idea what constitutes 'fair use' in this case, and I'm not trying to go there. But with all the royalty-free loops and samples available now, there's really no need to risk it.

NeuM

@telecharge said:

@NeuM said:
If you’re a player in the pop music business, taking dozens of samples for each song means you owe every one of the artists you sampled money for their work. That makes no sense in a business that typically has very thin profit margins on music sales.

I have no idea what constitutes 'fair use' in this case, and I'm not trying to go there. But with all the royalty-free loops and samples available now, there's really no need to risk it.

There’s no “fair use” in this case.

telecharge

@NeuM said:
There’s no “fair use” in this case.

Prove it.

jwmmakerofmusic

@NeuM said:

@telecharge said:
Have you already read through the Wikipedia article about it and the links from there?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_(Justice_album)
"It features many samples and "microsamples" throughout, with about 400 albums being used as sampled material."

http://www.mtv.com/news/1599116/french-duo-justice-reveal-songwriting-sampling-secrets-50-cent-slipknot-take-note/
"We do sample really small bits of things that nobody can recognize. Say we use the "In Da Club" hand clap – not even 50 Cent would notice but if you listen to "Genesis", the first track [on Cross], there are samples of Slipknot, Queen and 50 Cent, but they are such short samples no one can recognize them. The ones from Slipknot, for example, are tiny pieces of vocals."

I'd have to guess apps listed in this thread would work well for this technique - https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/51323/can-we-list-all-granular-synths-on-ios

If you’re a player in the pop music business, taking dozens of samples for each song means you owe every one of the artists you sampled money for their work. That makes no sense in a business that typically has very thin profit margins on music sales.

This is more of a side experiment for me. I'm not going to upload on SoundCloud or Bandcamp but rather just to Dropbox to share here my results. ^_^

jwmmakerofmusic

@Blipsford_Baubie said:

@sevenape said:
just copy daft punk like Justice did.

and to add to this, look up French Touch. It’ll give you a glimpse of other artists who ran in the same circle as Daft Punk.

I'll take a look at that.

NeuM

@telecharge said:

@NeuM said:
There’s no “fair use” in this case.

Prove it.

Because the person cited is not making a parody, criticism or news coverage of the samples. There’s no fair use for commercial music sales for samples from other musicians. Every sample has to be negotiated and compensated to the copyright holders.

jwmmakerofmusic

I think Koala will work perfectly for the microsampling. ^_^

jwmmakerofmusic

Okay, I gave it my best college try for my friend Allan, and...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwy2nger96h1wgc/Allan.m4a?dl=0

...it's just a bit rubbish. 😆 Lol. I've come to the sobering conclusion that while I really love listening to Justice, producing like them is a massive pain, no kidding. 🤣

jwmmakerofmusic

Update...my friend Allan said, in his own words, it's "f*cking fabulous". Well there you have it then, lol. 😆

ecou

I think I remember reading, Daft Punk creating music for the sole purpose of sampling and chopping. You could try that.

jwmmakerofmusic

@ecou said:
I think I remember reading, Daft Punk creating music for the sole purpose of sampling and chopping. You could try that.

Could be fun to try that next. I wanted to mash my friend Allan's three favourite songs together, lol. Not for release or anything.

But to be honest, I think I'm done with producing in Logic Pro outside of mastering music within it, lol. I'm going back to Gadget. 🤣

mtenk

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Okay, I gave it my best college try for my friend Allan, and...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwy2nger96h1wgc/Allan.m4a?dl=0

...it's just a bit rubbish. 😆 Lol. I've come to the sobering conclusion that while I really love listening to Justice, producing like them is a massive pain, no kidding. 🤣

I think you did a pretty good job here at re-creating that “Justice” sound. My only criticism (upon first listen) is that it’s the wrong snare for the track. A little too “poppy” and high pitched. I think something lower pitched and slightly more aggressive would be 🤌

Again, really good job though.

jwmmakerofmusic

@mtenk said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Okay, I gave it my best college try for my friend Allan, and...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwy2nger96h1wgc/Allan.m4a?dl=0

...it's just a bit rubbish. 😆 Lol. I've come to the sobering conclusion that while I really love listening to Justice, producing like them is a massive pain, no kidding. 🤣

I think you did a pretty good job here at re-creating that “Justice” sound. My only criticism (upon first listen) is that it’s the wrong snare for the track. A little too “poppy” and high pitched. I think something lower pitched and slightly more aggressive would be 🤌

So it actually was serviceable enough, lol. Yes, I agree now that you mention it the snare should be lower. Good catch mate. I'll pop into Logic and adjust that, and then open Gadget and create something new, lol.

ecou

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Okay, I gave it my best college try for my friend Allan, and...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwy2nger96h1wgc/Allan.m4a?dl=0

...it's just a bit rubbish. 😆 Lol. I've come to the sobering conclusion that while I really love listening to Justice, producing like them is a massive pain, no kidding. 🤣

You did a great job capturing the funky side of Justice. Are you going to try their darker side ?

jwmmakerofmusic

@ecou said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Okay, I gave it my best college try for my friend Allan, and...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwy2nger96h1wgc/Allan.m4a?dl=0

...it's just a bit rubbish. 😆 Lol. I've come to the sobering conclusion that while I really love listening to Justice, producing like them is a massive pain, no kidding. 🤣

You did a great job capturing the funky side of Justice. Are you going to try their darker side ?

I sure might. Maybe in Gadget. Bilbao is pretty great at playing one-shot microsamples in a drum machine type gadget, and Vancouver is perfect for turning a microsample into a MIDI instrument, lol.

jwmmakerofmusic

I "discovered" that Nanostudio 2 is very ideal for this style of music. Beatmaker 3 would be more ideal, but I can't be faffed learning new software right now, lol. So, here's the example.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rs0wnc6s0fvpcew/061523a (3)-converted.m4a?dl=0

I plan to expand upon it more once I awake. This obviously can't be released to Soundcloud or Bandcamp since it samples...

-Sash - Ecuador
-Lynyrd Skynyrd - Sweet Home Alabama
-The Eagles - Hotel California
-Ed Sheeran - Thinking Out Loud
-Georgia Gibbs - Hula Hoop
-Monteverdi: Vespro della Beata Vergine, SV 206 - I. Domine ad adiuvandum a 6 (I simply refer to this Baroque piece as "Domine" lol)

telecharge

The first half is a bit "random radio", to borrow a phrase from a Thesys preset, but the second half has some rhythmic flow.

Any NS2 tips you want to share? I take it you are chopping up samples and triggering them with Slate? Did you try any granular apps?

BroCoast

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
I "discovered" that Nanostudio 2 is very ideal for this style of music. Beatmaker 3 would be more ideal, but I can't be faffed learning new software right now, lol. So, here's the example.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rs0wnc6s0fvpcew/061523a (3)-converted.m4a?dl=0

I plan to expand upon it more once I awake. This obviously can't be released to Soundcloud or Bandcamp since it samples...

-Sash - Ecuador
-Lynyrd Skynyrd - Sweet Home Alabama
-The Eagles - Hotel California
-Ed Sheeran - Thinking Out Loud
-Georgia Gibbs - Hula Hoop
-Monteverdi: Vespro della Beata Vergine, SV 206 - I. Domine ad adiuvandum a 6 (I simply refer to this Baroque piece as "Domine" lol)

I like the drum sound. I would tame the samples back a bit, sidechain them and make the bass synth a lot louder.