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"Bouncing" and "bouncing in place" with Audiolayer inside Logic Pro
Tried to use the search engine but couldn't find anything about this issue.
I am currently working on a project including a drum library from Drumdrops. I imported the exs file without any trouble inside Audiolayer and I am able to load Audiolayer as an instrument in Logic Pro
The first issue I've had was when I tried to mixdown the whole project using export function. My final mix is missing the drums at the beginning of the track where they should be. They only appeared later on the track. The playback inside logic is ok and I checked that there were no automation on the Audiolayer track. I did the export many times and the issue is consistent. Later in the track, I am also using pure upright, and it also didn't appear in the final mix. So I concluded that there was probably an issue when bouncing auv3 instruments. The only way I got the mix to be as i intended, was to first freeze both tracks (audiolayer and Pure upright) then export. Not a big deal but not exactly supposed to work that way... Anyone having this issue as well?
My second issue is trying to use the bounce in place option inside Logic. The idea was to use this function to get all element of the drumdrops kit hosted in Audiolayer bounced on separate tracks to be able to mix each one to my taste. No success. Audiolayer seems to skip the process and I always ended up with empty audiotrack. I thought it might be another problem with AUV3 instruments so I tried the bounce in place with pure piano inside the same project, and this worked. So my guess is that Audiolayer and logic pro seem to have a hard time working together. I also noticed that Audiolayer get irresponsive after unfreezing or after bounce in place. Anyone having the same issue ?
@VirSyn are you aware of any trouble between Audiolayer and Logic Pro?
Comments
@JanKun : offline rendering works slightly differently than realtime playback. It sounds like maybe AudioLayer isn't handling it quite right.
Any idea if this kind of issue is solvable or if it is a structural problem that would require reworking the whole architecture of the app ? (Sorry for the noob question...)
My understanding is that if you let the developer know how to reproduce it, they can usually address it. It's also my understanding that different hosts handline offline rendering differently -- so, sometimes an app works right in one host but not another -- which I think is usually fixable.
Some update on this topic for those interested (maybe @espiegel123 , or even @virsyn in case this can help fix the problem).
So freezing, bouncing in place, and bouncing project is still erratic for Audiolayer inside logic Pro at the time of writing (I am on a iPad pro M1, latest iOS update) but I noticed something that can somehow momentarily "fix" the bounce in place inside logic... I closed logic and killed it then opened a project in Cubasis 3 with at least one instance of Audiolayer and played the track for a few bars. It worked as supposed to. Then closed Cubasis 3, killed it and then launched Logic Pro again with the project I was working on, then the bounce in place function started to somehow work (it actually works on the second attempt...) This behaviour is consistent and using Audiolayer inside Cubasis is the "fix" I found for now. I Might check with other DAWs like AUM at some point.
Anyway, this is not ideal, but a least, for now, it gets the bounce in place function working with Audiolayer.
PS: I am rebooting my iPad very regularly so this is definitely not the problem.
You could always record the audio (a technique I like to do for fx so I can use say a reverb or delay as a basis for sound design and for stems — sometimes it’s easier to automate fx when you can see the waveform and cut and chop it into the ‘wrong’ places, reverse it etc).
Anyway. I’m sure you’ve already though of this but for anybody else — If you set the output to a bus and then create a new audio track with that bus as the input you can record the audio in real-time.
I think I tried that one, but once the bus was turned into a track, I didn't have a record enabling button available on that track. Maybe I did something wrong, will try again and report.
It works well… here’s how to set it up:
Great! It was probably late at night and I was probably not fully operational at that time. I suppose the initial goal of turning an auxiliary track into an audio track was to be able to automate an auxiliary track (?) But it is definitely a great alternative to bounce in place. Need to check again.
Another thing that puzzles me. It is possible to route one track directly to another track inside Auria Pro and AUM via a bus. The option is also available in Logic. I mean assigning the output of a track to a bus then assign the input of another track to the said bus, but this results in no sound. Is it a bug? @richardyot confirmed the same behaviour. Very strange to have the option but that it doesn't work and that the only way is to go through changing an auxiliary track to an audio track...🤔
I'm not 100% sure what you mean? If you're talking about Logic, you can send the output of multiple tracks to the same bus. That's how track stacks work.
You can then make another audio track and make the input of that track the output of the bus as per my example above. That's how I record fx. I usually use reverb and delay as send fx instead of as inserts, gives me loads more options when mixing/arranging.
Ok just found out what was wrong. When the input of a channel strip is set to receive a signal from a bus, the audio will pass through it ONLY if the record button is armed !!! Arming the record button was not necessary in Auria Pro or AUM, hence my confusion... A bit counter intuitive but glad I found out ! This f..... little detail just made my day and will be my best alternative to bounce in place.( it would be definitely better and time saving if bounce in place could work consistently with Audiolayer though !)
Good find, but it's a bit annoying if you want to route audio to an existing track that you have to arm the track to hear the audio, weird design. What happens when you want to record on another track?
The only way around this is to create the bus as an aux in the mixer, because if you set the input of an existing audio track to a bus then (as per your discovery) there is no audio unless you arm the track. Maybe that's a bug, because I can't imagine this would be by design.
I agree that it is a strange design decision... When routing a signal to a track, one would expect to hear the signal without arming the track, it works like this in Auria Pro, AUM and likely in any other app with flexible audio routing.
Regarding the problem with bounce in place with Audiolayer, it is a nice work around, so I am definitely glad the function is there.
Now I am not sure to understand @klownshed usecase for this when "imprinting" effects tails (which is something I also use a lot for sound design) as "bounce in place" which is normally working great, seems to achieve the exact same thing a lot faster without the hassle to record in real-time on the target track. Or maybe I didn't understand properly his usecase.
Anyway, Still hoping the erratic behaviour of Audiolayer when bouncing in place, bouncing project or freezing will find a resolution. Audiolayer is still currently the best multi sampler available on iOS. Wondering if Apple will extend the Sampler functionality and let users import directly exs file from iOS device. Wouldn't bet on this, they probably want us to invest in both iOS and desktop versions...so porting all desktop functions to iOS is not likely to be on their agenda (hoping I'm wrong though😅)
You can’t bounce send fx in place.
If I have a reverb on a bus and send multiple tracks to it in different amounts I like to record the entire wet reverb fx as audio not just the tails.
That way I have a dry track and separate wet fx track(s) if I like.
I wasn’t talking about bouncing tracks with insert Fx.
I see. Just out of curiousity and to discover other people workflow, what kind of manipulation do you like to do with this global wet FX?
My use case for routing audio tracks from one track to another is manipulation with reverse audio. For exemple, let's say I record a one by one each voicing of a mini choir harmony and then send those tracks to another one where I apply global eq and compression and panning to glue everything together and record the result. Then Duplicate and reverse the copy and apply a fully wet reverb on it, then reverse again. This way I can get dry choir on a track and reversed reverb FX on another. Far from being an original trick, but the effect is so great.
I did something similar recently on a collab with rottencat from the forum:
Anyway thank you so much for chiming in, @klownshed. That's why I love this forum so much. Everyone here is helpful and friendly.
Lots of different things. For example, similar to the reverse reverb trick but with delays. Having reverse delays can be quite cool on drums with the reverse sounds blending into the hits.
Plus if you have an entire track of wet fx they can be from multiple sources. The reverse reverb effect can use the entire mix or sub mix if you want rather than just one instrument.
One other simples example is just being able to easily automate the fx. When you can see the waveform it makes it easier to judge where to increase or decrease the volume, pan, etc. And once it's audio you can obviously add more fx or send to different fx sends. You might want more fx on the verses and less on the chorus. Drawing the automation directly onto the waveform is a bit more intuitive.
Another thing I use quite a bit is out of context fx. Make an fx chain that responds to say a drum track then remove the drums and use just the fx as their own instrument, or chop them up and use the fx from one section over the drums for another.
Take a section of the recorded wet sound and drag it into a new track and create a quick sampler instrument and play it an octave below or above. Or chop up gated fx. So many things to try. Logic really is a sound design playground. Having audio tracks makes this stuff easy and fun.
The possibilities are only limited by your imagination.
And generally, I've always like using fx such as reverb and delay on sends. Firstly it makes it easier to make them sit in the mix as you can use other effects on the bus to EQ/compress/saturate just the wet signal and also you can send multiple tracks to the reverb to help glue things together and make them sound more like they're actually coming from the same space.
When you use sends as pre-fader you can also balance the perceived distance of an instrument. Lower the volume of the track and send lots to the reverb to make it sound further away, do the opposite to bring it closer. Automate that over a song and you can get some really subtle but classy effects.
So yeah. Busses are great.
Recording busses isn't much of a faff and you only need to record the bits you need. Not much slower than bouncing in place and you open up a ton of possibilities with the audio.
"Another thing I use quite a bit is out of context fx. Make an fx chain that responds to say a drum track then remove the drums and use just the fx as their own instrument, or chop them up and use the fx from one section over the drums for another.
Take a section of the recorded wet sound and drag it into a new track and create a quick sampler instrument and play it an octave below or above. Or chop up gated fx."
Lots of very inspiring ideas here! Thank you so much for sharing.
Funny you mentioned sends as pre-fader to balance perceived distance. This is something I recently started to work on. But when it comes to this level of subtlety I realise that I will have to upgrade my monitors...
Great exchanging with you. I got plentiful of news ideas and a superb piece of software to experiment with !
You can actually bounce send fx in place from a bus
That's a great tip, thanks ! We actually got so many ways to do the same thing ! I don't remember reading this in the manual, did you find out by yourself?
I did figure that one out by experimenting - though I’ve found the manual to be pretty helpful too!
Cool...
On the Mac if you put an Aux track inside a track stack when you use the bounce all tracks feature that works too (AFAIK the iPad version has yet to get that command though, which is dead useful especially when sending files to the Mac).
Hopefully 'bounce all tracks and replace..." will come to the iPad one day.
@JanKun Just want to let you know that I've added this to the compatibility tests for Logic Pro.
Thank you for your continuous support for Audiolayer. It was a really great app from the start but turned out to be essential after you made it so easy to import exs and SFZ files. Don't know if you read this whole thread, but I found that if I opened another DAW (in my case cubasis 3) and load an instance of Audiolayer there and then kill Cubasis and reload my Logic Pro project, the bounce in place function works on the second attempt.. Not sure if this a useful piece of information but since this is a consistent behaviour better to let you know.