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Bitwig Studio 5 has landed
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Yes, much better than Ableton in many ways. Been using since v3 and it keeps getting better.
Exploring it now on the 30 day trial. I had been intending to buy it this month, until this deal landed:
https://www.steinberg.net/promotion/
I have Ableton. (Currently beset by crashes, but hey.) So I think I’ll hang fire on Bitwig till Black Friday now. This bundle seems too good to pass up.
i wish it lands one day on iOS .. i am not using desktop for music anymore, there is noway back for me, but full blown (or at least half blown lol, i am completely ok with stripped down "limited" version) Bitwig on iOS that would be SOMETHING.
Bitwig hardly will happen on iOS because of the Java framework imho. Reaper have more chances.
Clean C/C++ code, they use POSix for multithreading. Listened to one podcast.
Edit: DAWbench Radio Show
jfc Bitwig core is made in Java ?! ☠️☠️☠️
that explains that stability and efficiency.. best coding heroes use C/C++ :-)
They made complete UI and plugin management in Java, yes. Core is still a low level in C++.
OK, I'll bite. What's better about Bitwig than Ableton?
Java makes total sense for Bitwig. Like this, they could write the UI only once for all desktop OS, including Linux. They wrote their own set of widgets with vector graphics. AFAIK that’s what all DAWs do. That’s why they look exactly the same on a different OS.
Like most Apple users, don’t be fooled by Steve Jobs’ rant about Java being “ball and chains”. Well, that was correct for mobile devices as of 2008. The JVM (Java virtual machine) is actually an excellent runtime environment and that provides a performance that is almost on par with code written in C or C++. Much faster than any other interpreted language like Python or JavaScript. It’s the fastest interpreted language runtime on the planet with decades of constant improvement. The JVM hotspot feature is analyzing the code during runtime and optimizes it accordingly. That is something that compiled languages can never do. Although this might be a feature that is more relevant on the server.
The actual real downside of the JVM is that it is not real-time capable, and this is exactly the reason why the time critical audio engine is written in good old C++. While Java is a language that kind of feels dated, there are alternative languages on the JVM that have fully embraced modern concepts and lots of new projects that target the JVM rather choose Kotlin instead of Java. Although Java is now almost 30 years old, it’s still much less error-prone to program in Java than in C or C++. I think in this regard it’s probably only outperformed by Rust.
One more goodie is that the usage of Java makes it very easy for Bitwig to offer a plug-in interface for extensions. Bitwig’s extension API is quite mighty and offers access to almost everything the DAW can do. As a developer you simply drop the jar file with your extension into a directory and then it is loaded.
In this podcast the lead developer one of the founders of Bitwig explains the architecture and some of their technology choices. https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/episode-10-daw-evolution-iii-bitwig-studio-past-present/id1523193837?i=1000514435530
Both Nanostudio 1 and 2 were completely written in C++ including UI (using OpenGL) and it was running on win/mac/ios (ns2 just internally for our testing purposes, was not publicly released on win/mac but basically it was working, Matt did whole developement on Windows machine and just deployed it to testflight/appstore from Xcode) It was all clean pure C++ code with lots of asm for cpu sensitive parts.
Two biggest for me. Better midi routing/filtering/modulation including from VSTs (which Ableton does not support) and native modulation features without resorting to external frameworks like Max for Live.
Also, User Library can index folders from anywhere not just those in User Library.
Oh, that was a bit ambiguous in my post. I didn’t want to say that most DAWs use Java for the UI. I mean all DAWs use their own set of UI widgets instead of the native ones. There’s nothing wrong about choosing Java for this purpose. Bitwig’s UI is not sluggish at all.
Ah ok sorry my bad i didn’t read properly.. yeah this is pretty much true
Yes that is true and honestly quite surprising for me, all big Java coded apps i ever used were acrually pretty sluggish and especially in terms of memory needs horribly aggressive - just based on that my guess was always that garbage collector in Java is true garbage 😂
Your post almost imply that I have grudge against Java?! 🤔 I didn’t said anything negative towards that language. What I said is that Bitwig on iOS not gonna happen soon because of Java framework. Well known fact is that iOS doesn't like Java.
Listened everything Claes Johanson said. I already recommended ‘DAWbench Radio Show’, it’s really great podcast, I listened almost all episodes.
If FL Studio didn't exist, Bitwig would be top choice for me on desktop. I like the modularity and room to experiment. Only thing I dislike is having to pay the upgrade toll
Oh no, I didn’t think you are negative towards Java. I guess it was because of Dendy’s skulls and bones. 😅 I read several times in the forum some negative about Java, so I just seized the moment to make my point.
Well, it was a good point anyway! 😎
Impressed by the “lots of asm” part! I can see some companies ship apps which are full browsers with heavyweight js frameworks just to exchange text messages. It’s hilarious how instant and fluid the UI is in NS2 while it can take 10 seconds to respond to a button press in a (won’t point fingers) messaging app
Just curious: is that why the keyboard is not the standard OS one?
yes
Love Bitwig. Just upgraded for another year. I was seriously considering doing Ableton Suite, but I think it’s just a case of fomo.
From what I understand Bitwig is huge in microtonal music
Any thoughts on the CLAP hosting in Bitwig? I’m considering to update my 8-Track license, and I’m kind of interested in doing something with CLAP.
Also interesting: the Bitwig multisample format, and control of external MIDI gear. Still very much stuck in Logic and Live, but open to new stuff.