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Guitar MIDI vs. newer expressive MIDI keyboards
Hey,
In the thinking-about-it stage of getting either one of the newer MIDI keyboards or getting something like Jamstik MIDI guitar. About my situation:
- At the point of truly recognizing how valuable MIDI tracks are for sketching and composing some ideas
- Have been a guitarist for years, albeit frustrated, but who isn't?
- Recently been playing a lot of synth and MIDI keys using a few synths and MPC Key 61
- Have been reasonably impressed with MIDI Jam 2 on iOS
- Paying a lot of attention to Osmose
- I'm OK at hacking at keys for MIDI composition
- I'm much more fluent at composing via guitar
So I've never owned a Jamstik, and the reviews look pretty good with the Studio model selling for $800 or so.
And it feels like the Osmose MIDI keyboard is a breakthrough product providing a leap in expression ability.
So any thoughts? I'm especially interested in anyone who gave the Jamstik a good long trial or continues to use it.
Thanks!
Joe
Comments
Oh damn, that Jamstix looks great! $800 tho. No way for me.
If money weren’t a factor I’d go for that in an instant. I’d probably still keep a basic keyboard controller as well though.
You have missed one piece of information that will really help determine people’s opinions - what do you want as MIDI input? Are you expecting to use very guitar-like input such as strumming or tremolo picking, or are you just looking for a general way to input MIDI?
Great question. Mostly looking forward as the easiest way to go from idea to MIDI input. Like it or not, I am more fluent on guitar than any other instrument.
So it’s OK if it’s not doing all the guitar bends, and hammer-on. I want it to keep up with the speed of my ideas especially when improvising. And then I’ll use midi to run synthesizers or virtual instruments of whatever type.
Maybe the cheaper Jamstik guitar trainer is sufficient for that? Looks like a handy thing to have around.
[edit] terrible reviews on Amazon though.
Maybe look for a MIDI controller with multiple playing options then - keyboard, XY pad, joystick, drum pads, etc.
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Hmmm. Hard to say if you’d like it, but I am a big fan of the Artiphon Instrument 1 and it looks like they will be gone soon. It’s not terribly like a guitar but it can do MPE.
I also have the Jammy G and with the right amount of tweaking (a lot) you can get an extremely convincing guitar with great play feedback (feels like a guitar and can use all of the typical guitar moves of hammer ons, pull offs, vibrato etc). They look like they might not be as active anymore though so if support is important to you…Jamstik might be it.
If you are hoping for general strumming etc all of them will get you there. If you want more guitar based moves as I stated above, it seems the Jamstik would fit best, also hedging against the future. They seem like they will continue to be around.
You could give the MIDI Guitar app a try - the free trial version will give you a good idea of what it can do. You will need some kind of audio interface. If you have an older iPhone or iPad that still has a headphone/mic input you can probably find one of the old iRig adapters pretty cheap.
There is the new Jamstik Classic guitar should you want to keep a more traditional instrument mixed with midi skills
It’s still early days for me, but I recently got & highly recommend the fishman triple play connect.
It wasn’t a difficult install & works WAY better for me than any keyboard, isometric pad controller, or the midi guitar 2 vst to get clean, complex, midi data into a daw. I use it with a line 6 midi only pedalboard for 4 key switches/sustain pedal & an expression pedal for expression changes over time with sustained notes.
I actually can’t wait to wake up tomorrow to use it some more.
1) The way you compose is likely to differ among instruments, as the ease of skipping intervals differs. The difference in the placement of chords does, too. And the ability to bend strings. So you may well come up with quite different ideas when just dreaming away on different types of instrument. - Me, I have hoarded instruments of different types for about that purpose.
2) An instrument that I wouldn't have thought of until I bought one: a MIDI button accordion (of the V-Accordion range by Roland, which also features piano accordion models). If browsing YouTube, look for "FR-1Xb" (the smallest) or higher numbers.
3) There are at least three types of MIDI guitar. (1) the Jamstik Studio with on-board pitch-to-MIDI conversion. (2) the Fishman Triple Play (I'll have to refer to the manual). (3) the Roland approach with the cable with 13-pin connectors where the signals of the individual strings get processed in a Roland/Boss pedal.
I have all three types, but I can't yet do any recommendation, as I have been more into playing since creating a set-up (too small to call it a studio). I greatly enjoy the variety of sounds of my Godin LGX-SA and xtSA guitars without using their 13-pin connectors. I have equipped a Squier Stratocaster with the Triple Play hardware, but I have yet to use it (and its foot controller) for MIDI. I do enjoy my Jamstik Studio, but I haven't even tested it for MIDI after raising the screws on the MIDI pick-up. You may love or hate using the "tuning handle".
4) I noticed the Instrument 1 being suggested. I bought one notably with the idea of "bowing a MIDI violin" on it, but I consider it a gadget, rather than an instrument. I'm trying to use a wind controller for that purpose.
5) If you happen to have an iPad (preferably a large one) or merely an iPhone, have a look at the GeoShredder app (on YouTube). It plays somewhat guitar-like.
See this thread. As @rheslip says, try the MIDI Guitar app first and see whether it gives you enough of what you need; you may need to spend some time fine-tuning the settings for your particular playing, but it is an amazing app and by far the cheapest option.
The Jamstik Studio is a really nice instrument to play and palpably better than MIDI Guitar at capturing expression, at least in my experience; it also supports MPE, though I find it hard to get the best from that by playing a regular guitar. For fine, expressive, intuitive control of synth parameters with MPE it's the Artiphon Instrument 1 all the way for me, but as @mjcouche says it's not really a guitar; it's a Seaboard-style touch-sensitive expressive MPE keyboard in the form of a guitar fingerboard that's best played with your fretting hand only, using the right optionally for drones. Different players have different views on using its rubber string tabs for strumming and picking; I can't stand either on it, but others find it acceptable for their playing. I've never got on with the Jammy myself; it's a clever design but I find it hard to play naturally on the low-tension strings.
When I compose music on the guitar, I'm influenced by the standard tuning and familiar shapes.
When I compose on a keyboard, I tend to focus more on the notes than shapes, because there's only one key per note on the keyboard. No extra time spent trying out alternate locations for the same note on the guitar fretboard, because choice of fretboard location can influence ornamentation (grace note before target note by sliding up/down, hammer-ons, pull offs) as well as choice of harmony notes/chords.
This is one of the reasons I gravitate towards keyboard MIDI controllers for composing. Less distraction trying the same note in different places, because there's only one place for that note.
I would highly recommend Linnstrument to any guitarist.
Thanks folks. FYI, I’ve used MIDI Guitar 2 a few times on my iPad. And honestly it’s pretty good. But I could imagine something that is even more reliable and also quicker to set up.
I also should mention that getting a convincing guitar sound from it is secondary. I’m looking more for something that will play virtual instruments. And serve as the quickest way to sketch ideas while playing my guitar into a MIDI format.
My experience:
If I want to capture MIDI using guitar-like playing, I use my Mad Catz Rock Band Pro Mustang controller. I find it plays well enough and gets reliable MIDI. I haven’t tried every solution out there, but of the ones I’ve tried, it works best for me. And that “for me” may be carrying a lot of weight there.
Of course, you can’t get them anymore (except second hand), so I’m hoping it lasts for a long time.
If I want to play something with guitar technique but with less of a recognizable guitar sound, I use my Strat or Multiac with a hex pickup running into the Spicetone 6appeal or something using Roland/Boss’ VG tech. No MIDI; just heavy processing of the signals from the individual strings.
FYI, I tried MIDI Guitar 2 iOS again through the iPad > iRig Pro > MPC. I suppose it's been awhile since I've used it. I was pretty impressed -- enough to dampen some GAS at the moment.
I liked the ability to play the real guitar, use Nembrini or THU apps, capture that audio, and use MIDI virtual instruments to my heart's content, including piano, synth, violins, etc. As strange as may sound to say, I also valued the MPC's virtual guitar instruments. That is, playing real guitar > MIDI > virtual guitar.
This gave me the chance to capture "guitar playing" with real guitar, MIDI, and pseudo-guitar. The latter two are easily tweaked or swapped out as needed.
Thx.
I second this suggestion... it works well, low latency, supports channel-per-string mode. You can even pair it with the CME Widi Uhost and a small USB battery pack for wireless use.
https://www.fishman.com/portfolio/tripleplay-connect-midi-guitar-controller/
https://www.cme-pro.com/widi-uhost/
Does $250 include both the pickup and controller? I am a little confused by the options that I’ve seen.
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Thanks. Wow, that is so much less expensive than I thought.
Does the Triple Play work with alternate tunings?
I have that one and it really is sub-par.
It is pitch to midi. So it picks up whatever pitches you play. It isn't detecting the fret being played. So, yes.
Thx. The Fishman will stay on my radar. I like seeing that the impact on the guitar is minimal. It would go on a Music Man 25th Anniversary with a whammy.
The Fishman Triple play is quite an old solution (I think it is now 10 years old). Isn’t there a newer / better solution ?
The newest thing in the pitch-to-MIDI space is…
https://recoveryeffects.com/products/ghost-writer-pedal
…but I haven’t tried it and can’t vouch for if it’s better. And it is monophonic.
At this point, this is well trod ground. There aren’t many improvements (without some breakthrough innovation) out there to be implemented anymore. I do expect polyphonic pitch-to-MIDI (without a hex pickup) to get better, but it doesn’t seem to have the market to attract much in the way of development much less innovation investment.
Thanks. I have seen meanwhile a 5 years old video of Jennifer Batten promoting the Triple Play, so I guess it should be a good option if not the only wise one
Well, the latest today is the Boss GM-800. I haven’t dug into the details yet.