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iPad as live processor of Grand Piano
Hi there
Im playing around with using my iPad as a tool to enhance the sound of the Grand Piano while playing live.
Im using AUM as the brain, with one channel with the mic (connected thru my focusrite 2i2). Ive set the output to a Mix channel and have made different channels with different plugins; OtherDecertCities, Eventide Blackhole, Eventide Crystals and miRack.
I have 2 questions!
a) Is there a plugin that I can use to only grab the decay of the sound (like the Eventide Physion)?
- I like to make very subtle effects and it would be easier without the attack from the piano.
b) Im using miRack to make some blip-blobs sounds, and would like it to react to what Im playing.
- Im using MIDI Guitar 2 for making the piano sound into midi (sort of working), and then sending it to miRack. I would like to be able to program it to do something when playing notes close to each other, and something else when Im playing big intervals etc.. Something like if/then/else... Is there a way of doing that? And app or something.
I hope that you can help me further on my journey into the mix of acoustic and electronic music :-)
Comments
Don’t get exactly what you’re trying to do. But are you processing the microphone recording a real piano? I’m left thinking how amazing it would be to use a bunch of piezo mics “glued” to parts of the piano (even strings), and routed as individual audio or modulation sources to the ipad. I guess with an audio interface with multiple inputs, and some custom cable soldering, this could be a very wild project. You need a real piano to start with, luckily I do.
Prepared piano 21st century version
Question B I have no idea, for A you could try an fx auv3 like Attack Softener, but tbh it might not work all that well, it will still only give you a max attack of 1 second, but better than nothing.
I have a Yamaha CP70 that has separate piezo pickups for each note. They made midi versions that weren’t great but I have always thought about doing my own mod to get a decent result.
But OP an idea might be to use the MIDI from MG2 just to trigger ADSR in Drambo and process the result?
Maybe Bram Bos' Mosaic for Question B:
https://ruismaker.com/mozaic/
I don't have it, but I think you'd put it between MIDI Guitar 2 and miRack to intercept the midi and process it with a script.
I imagine the answer to A, is to bus in to something like Transient Shaper https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/transient-shaper/id1599434645 or FAC Transient to rid the transient before then doing whatever effects? http://fredantoncorvest.com/FAC_Transient.html , or perhaps another approach could be an envelope generator triggered by the transient so again from FAC, http://fredantoncorvest.com/FAC_Envolver.html sent onwards to whatever channel / fx?
As an aside, Tails, could be an interesting thing to add in to whatever configuration, given much of the functionality is based on responding to and removing transients https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/unfiltered_audio_tails.html
To get just the decay, you could use an envelope follower like FAC Envolver to control a gate or volume control so that the initial attack closes the gate and the gate opens when it falls below some level. You might need something a Mozaic script as a helper to translate the ccs from the envelope follower. Drambo could probably be set up for that.
Alternatively, you could use the envelope follower to trigger an ADSR to process the sound.
Keep in mind that these won’t be able process individual notes independently if the playing is polyphonic.
You could use Mozaic or streambyter to make decisions based on the intervals in the steam of notes.
Wow thank you for all of your suggestions! I will take a look at it and return when Ive tried things out :-)
pedro > it is for acoutic grands/uprights. I have a grand at home, but its meant for doing live, so I cant do to much glueing on instruments that I dont own - unfortunately ;-)
Flux Pro might also work in removing the attack.
I was also going to recommend the FAC apps mentioned above. I've done something similar with Envolver, although not erasing the transient necessarily. I was having Envolver close the gate at the strum of a guitar and then open slowly as it rang out, and then just passed that motion to GliderVerb's input gain to make these really nice transposed string quartet type pad tails.
It can be a little touchy to dial in the sensitivities and as mentioned, Mozaic might come in handy if your routing gets more complicated than what I was doing, but it wouldn't have to be too complicated probably, just rerouting or transposing CC's. If you want the intervals to affect the sound, probably Mozaic or Streambyter, but I wouldn't really know how to start.
Okay; so now Ive made a pluging in Mozaic that I can use to calculate the distance of the notes in a string of notes and make MiRack do different stuff according to what I play..so far so good!
Now I want to make some kind of blip-blop scratchy noisy sounds (does it make sense? ;-)).
I would like to have some kind of percussive sound that doesnt have clear notes but still can play low and high (and be able to choose to have the “notes” close or far for instance).
Ive tried some different stuff, but I am far from an expert in MiRack (and modules by the way..) so Ive looked at Patchstorage, for patches that sounds like what Im looking for, but so far - no luck.
Can anyone here point me in the right direction? :-)
I hope it makes sense. And if anyone wants my Mozaic script, I can try to export it and send it :-)
@theohjorth OK, so you've managed to create MIDI notes from your piano playing using MIDI Guitar 2.
Do you have an audio example of what these blip-blop scratchy noises could sound like?
A bit like a prepared piano maybe?
Yes, MIDI Guitar 2 creates MIDI notes, and my mozaic script makes some rules to send to MiRack..
(from the 3 minute mark). :-)
I like the sounds of this one:
Maybe it's more about changing the density of the blips and blops, rather than the "note"-hight.. I don't know, Im still trying things out :-)
I use a lot the iPad for live processing both uprights and grand pianos. Tried MIDI guitar 2 but had better results with envolver firing a set of notes for the chosen scale for a kind of random auto accompaniment. Other experiments I do is using the iPad in a feedback loop using exciters in the grand piano soundboard , I have a short video here:
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CqFF-kSOMlD/
In these days I’m using more the monome norns for processing, mainly because the excellent experimental asynchronous loopers/manglers . @theohjorth ,The Alva noto signature blip blip sounds in that album (great album and a fave of mine) are mainly short samples, mangled loops and microloops taken from the piano sounds, digital glitches, not added sounds. That’s something that the norns does excellent.
Wish there was some kind of modular audio tools around sampling/looping in iOS… tried in miRack using simpliciter but it’s very limited.
Thanks for your input @Synthi , I cant see your video? Would you try to post the link again?
There is a sample player in MiRack, maybe if I find / make some glitch samples, it will be an easier way to make the sounds that I want..
There are piezos made for piano that don’t need to be glued. You can also use thin magnets, or blue tac can work as well.
When I mic a grand, I use 2 414’s on magnetic arms up towards the hammers, about a foot back, as well as a boundary mic in the foot. The boundary mic just lays on the soundboard, so you might get some mileage out of something like that. Dynamic mic in the soundhole can be interesting too.
I’m not processing piano live in the way you are speaking about, but I’ve definitely been creative in recordings with shimmer verbs and such, which can be wonderful on piano
The instagram link should be fixed now!
Can you share what magnetic arms you are using? Ive seen them on small DPA microphones, but not at such big ones as 414's. :-)
Very nice sounds. A fun experiment ! :-)
Ive been a bit off - vacation with kids - but now I will start looking at blip-blop samples and see if I can make something meaningful out of it.. Ill keep you updated :-)
To control Attacks I would consider adding a Blue Board midi pedal with an added expression pedal that gets assigned in AUM to the mic’ed piano’s volume slider. Guitarists have been using this to have control of the attack and use swells to create more string section like tones. I think it would be more effective that an app that automates these volume adjustments. Just controlling volume in general they way a Hammond organ does opens new frontiers on live piano performance. I wondering if baffling the live piano sound might also be worth considering… maybe closing the lid is enough. I’d love to hear what you’re putting out. Do you record your shows?
Maybe that’s a better idea - thanks for the input :-)
Sure, I will record something when I’m a bit further in the process and post it here :-)
I made them myself from parts on Amazon. I used camvate magic arms. A baseplate meant to mount on a wall or something, rubber coated neodymium magnets with a screw attached to them, and a tripod to mic adapter. It works really well and the rubber coated magnets don’t scratch or mark up the piano at all.
Nice! Thanks for sharing the idea!
Very cool idea with the magnetic stands! I'll look into that - do you have a link for that exact holder you are using? :-)
And: Ive now made a Mozaic script that can generate midi-output based on what midi it receives.
Im using Midi guitar 2 for translating the piano sound to midi, sending it into Mozaic and then Ive ended up sending midi notes into Pianoteq 8. Then I can make fast, slow, low and high things. So now Im trying to "ruin" the pianosound from Pianoteq, so it won't sound as much as piano. Also to hide the pitch..
Im mostly playing around with Replicant 3 now.
I also have Eventide Undulater, Crystals, ShimmerVerb and Blackhole. And OtherDeserCities and Timeless 3 for delay things. But I don't think delay is the thing I need here. I have Drambo and Borderlands too - but Drambo Ive never "learned", and Borderlands doesn't seem to do the trick either..
Do you have any suggestions for crushing the pianosound? :-)
I have done something like that using FAC Envolver to engage the infinity sustain on the Eos reverb. When I stop playing, it sustains on the final note. But you could also use Envolver to grab the tail of a note and bring the fader up on the AUM channel containing your very subtle effects. I was going for something like the piano sustain here:
Anyone interested in prepared piano should check out the Bitklavier. It is a fabulous and underrated app. You can use any midi keyboard to play prepared piano.
Bitklavier for $5. It seems seriously broken. Isn’t responding to the AUM keyboard for me. How are you using it?
Haven’t opened it for ages. Sad if it’s no longer working.