Preset selection on software synths why not like on hardware?

GLacey

I spent some time with hardware synths on the weekend and realized how straightforward is to select presets or recall anytime my favourites.

Each preset is located in a bank at a numbered position, for example B104.
If I want recall a preset I just have to type its number on a numeric keypad or tweaking a knob until I get to the desired position. Superfast, supereasy. Don't need to remember the fancy preset names.

With software synths (on iPad) I have to tap a (sometimes tiny) drop-down menu, scrolling it, seeking the preset in a submenu, etc. There are various forms of implementation.

Why don't the sw synth developers implement such approach and preset structure like the hardware synths have?

Or am I the only one who finds the hardware approach more convenient?

Let me add a quick poll here.

catherder

Not all hardware synths follow the approach you are experiencing. You find everything from menu deep dive and the fancy preset name to no presets at all (mainly on fully analog or modular synths) in the hardware world. The same goes for software. Many apps actually have a search function that is very similar to entering bank and patch numbers. But on a touchscreen it is often easier to tap through banks, tags and presets than entering text.

Gavinski

I don't use hardware synths, but I will say - I wish that every preset system on iOS apps had, at a minimum:

A search bar (why do almost none have this?)

Forwards and backwards buttons

Ability to make user subfolders and / or a tagging system

Drop down menus that are well implemented so you don't actually accidentally select a preset when you're merely trying to scroll

Ability to import and export individual presets / specific user folders / the entire user folder, both from within the app itself and by clicking on some kind of preset file or compressed collection of files

Ability to multi select presets for deletion

Easy ability to edit an existing user preset's name

Always offering a quick choice of SAVE or SAVE AS when you try to select a new preset after altering an existing preset

Preset menus both in-app and selectable within the host / daw internal preset system

Preset sharing across hosts when saving a preset in a host's internal preset system

A preset randomisation feature with ability to lock / unlock specific elements to be randomised (Audiothing apps do this really well)

Ability to generate new random preset names

Have I forgotten anything? Probably!

drewinnit

Amen to everything Gav mentioned, the first 5 points should be mandatory!

Bonus points for AUv3s that allow you to use Program Change to switch patches

Edward_Alexander

Yeah I think it depends on the hardware.

On my Deepmind 12 synth, if I’m sitting at my desk, I have to almost get all the way up, out of my chair, so that I’m directly above the synth, looking straight down at the little display (because you can’t see shit at an angle), and then, I have to remember the button sequence to actually get to the presets. (IIRC you hit the PROG button first, then you can use the knob to scroll, or the up/down and left/right buttons to browse.

OR

I can use the Deepmind APP on my iPad to browse and/or select presets, but it’s kind of a weird app, that I don’t enjoy using at all. And the app was broken for a long time because of iPadOS updates, but they finally updated it to work with iPadOS 15 (or was it 16?) and now, it’s probably broken again and I don’t even care enough to check. lol

Edit: Oh! I forgot to add… all of this above is just for browsing and/or selecting a preset. If you create your own sounds and want to create a NEW preset, there’s an entirely different process to SAVING one. I’d have to consult the manual to be honest lol

Much easier to tap a couple AUv3 preset menus… now which AUv3 synth apps have the best preset browsing features? might be a topic for a whole ‘nother discussion.

GLacey

@catherder said:
Not all hardware synths follow the approach you are experiencing. You find everything from menu deep dive and the fancy preset name to no presets at all (mainly on fully analog or modular synths) in the hardware world. The same goes for software. Many apps actually have a search function that is very similar to entering bank and patch numbers. But on a touchscreen it is often easier to tap through banks, tags and presets than entering text.

Modular is a big fat no to me I would hate juggling with the cables between oscillators, filters, modulators, etc.
Fully analog is attractive, but I would miss the ability to save presets.

catherder

@GLacey said:

@catherder said:
Not all hardware synths follow the approach you are experiencing. You find everything from menu deep dive and the fancy preset name to no presets at all (mainly on fully analog or modular synths) in the hardware world. The same goes for software. Many apps actually have a search function that is very similar to entering bank and patch numbers. But on a touchscreen it is often easier to tap through banks, tags and presets than entering text.

Modular is a big fat no to me I would hate juggling with the cables between oscillators, filters, modulators, etc.
Fully analog is attractive, but I would miss the ability to save presets.

Unless you're a purist, you actually get analog synths that can store presets. The synth is analog, but the settings are done via encoder knobs and ad da converters.

dendy

i just doesn’t like when synth is missing “init” preset - that’s the one i use most 😂

Samu

@dendy said:
i just doesn’t like when synth is missing “init” preset - that’s the one i use most 😂

+1 or at least a function to reset all parameters to defaults

fisherro

Yeah, that sort of hardware synth paradigm made a lot of sense for hardware and especially in the early days.

Like Gav, I expect much more from software. Although, honestly, simply having search and a way to mark and browse favorites would be a minimum I’d be happier with than the lousy preset selection of so many soft-synths.

More than that, though, I think I’d prefer proper AUv3 preset support. (Recognizing that “proper” may not be perfectly defined…but at least make an effort.) And then for hosts to have good support for browsing, tagging, and searching them. Because I’d much rather have a good system from the host that I can then use consistently across all instruments instead of each instrument rolling their own system.

Gavinski

@fisherro said:
Yeah, that sort of hardware synth paradigm made a lot of sense for hardware and especially in the early days.

Like Gav, I expect much more from software. Although, honestly, simply having search and a way to mark and browse favorites would be a minimum I’d be happier with than the lousy preset selection of so many soft-synths.

More than that, though, I think I’d prefer proper AUv3 preset support. (Recognizing that “proper” may not be perfectly defined…but at least make an effort.) And then for hosts to have good support for browsing, tagging, and searching them. Because I’d much rather have a good system from the host that I can then use consistently across all instruments instead of each instrument rolling their own system.

I do indeed wish that the internal aum preset menu was a bit more sophisticated and had a search function. The aum file player also badly needs a search function, imho @j_liljedahl

dendy

@fisherro said:
Yeah, that sort of hardware synth paradigm made a lot of sense for hardware and especially in the early days.

it still makes sense if you need switch presets using midi program change / bank change messages (mostly in cases when you want integrate ios synths into hw dawless setup).

Presets were categorized into banks per 127 presets for compatibility with CC bank change/program change messages

shazbot

@dendy said:
i just doesn’t like when synth is missing “init” preset - that’s the one i use most 😂

yeah, and

an unofficial standardization of banks and presets conforming to Program Changes should’ve been used from the software synths/effects get-go, otherwise the developer should be frowned upon and shamed until made so. But since that standardization isn’t there, one just has to sigh.
(I also feel this way about synths/effects sending incoming midi back out to a port for bi-directional feedback so controllers can use that for LEDs)

Thank you to the devs that typically implement midi PC support (Papen had that covered well iirc).

HotStrange

Totally agree @Gavinski on both the points about presets and search bar for AUMs files and recordings.

I don’t understand why some apps have such horrible preset management. That should be a given but I’m not a dev so maybe I’m missing something that makes it difficult to make a robust patch management ecosystem.

wim

@Gavinski said:
I do indeed wish that the internal aum preset menu was a bit more sophisticated and had a search function. The aum file player also badly needs a search function, imho @j_liljedahl

If you hit the folder icon in the file player picker, you end up in the files app, which does have a (lousy) search function.

Gavinski

@wim said:

@Gavinski said:
I do indeed wish that the internal aum preset menu was a bit more sophisticated and had a search function. The aum file player also badly needs a search function, imho @j_liljedahl

If you hit the folder icon in the file player picker, you end up in the files app, which does have a (lousy) search function.

Ah, I think I remember now that that was mentioned before but I never remembered to try it. Tried just now, OK, gives access 5o Files app, nice. If you later move that external file, though, will AUM still be able to find it? Also, it would still make sense for me for aum to have an internal search bar for this, similar to the search feature for previous aum sessions, I think that would be more intuitive for users.

j_liljedahl

@Gavinski said:

Preset sharing across hosts when saving a preset in a host's internal preset system

This is supported by iOS since iOS 13, but it’s up to each AUv3 to implement it (which is a simple task). Also I haven’t checked which hosts supports it, but obviously AUM does

quantovox

Would appreciate if y'all could also participate in the following poll:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/56606/presets-plugin-and-host-app-interoperability
Thanks!

HotStrange

@quantovox said:
Would appreciate if y'all could also participate in the following poll:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/56606/presets-plugin-and-host-app-interoperability
Thanks!

Done 👍🏻