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Comments

  • jwmmakerofmusicjwmmakerofmusic

    @JanKun said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    Yeah, Rick Beato used to have substance in his older videos, but lately, this is how I feel about Rick Beato...

    😂 No really, all he ever does these days is complain about modern music. I tried to stay put as I was a fan of his, but honestly he's just tiresome and lame these days. Probably for the clickbait. Sorry dusty old bones, but it isn't working.

    To me, a lot of popular modern music isn't necessarily to my taste, but I don't fault those who enjoy it. School Zone has gained a subscriber, and Rick Beato has just lost one.

    My final opinion towards people like Rick Beato...just let people be to make and enjoy what they want. You're not in control of who likes what. Concentrate and focus on making what you like and listening to what you like. Your audience will soon follow. It's really that simple.

    Wondering if he would have the gut to claim that music is not what it used to be after watching something like this:

    That's really amazing! 🤯

  • JanKunJanKun

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @JanKun said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    Yeah, Rick Beato used to have substance in his older videos, but lately, this is how I feel about Rick Beato...

    😂 No really, all he ever does these days is complain about modern music. I tried to stay put as I was a fan of his, but honestly he's just tiresome and lame these days. Probably for the clickbait. Sorry dusty old bones, but it isn't working.

    To me, a lot of popular modern music isn't necessarily to my taste, but I don't fault those who enjoy it. School Zone has gained a subscriber, and Rick Beato has just lost one.

    My final opinion towards people like Rick Beato...just let people be to make and enjoy what they want. You're not in control of who likes what. Concentrate and focus on making what you like and listening to what you like. Your audience will soon follow. It's really that simple.

    Wondering if he would have the gut to claim that music is not what it used to be after watching something like this:

    That's really amazing! 🤯

    Plenty of amazing beatboxers in Japan, but Show Go is my favourite. If you like you can easily find them on YouTube!

  • Blipsford_BaubieBlipsford_Baubie

    @JanKun said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    Yeah, Rick Beato used to have substance in his older videos, but lately, this is how I feel about Rick Beato...

    😂 No really, all he ever does these days is complain about modern music. I tried to stay put as I was a fan of his, but honestly he's just tiresome and lame these days. Probably for the clickbait. Sorry dusty old bones, but it isn't working.

    To me, a lot of popular modern music isn't necessarily to my taste, but I don't fault those who enjoy it. School Zone has gained a subscriber, and Rick Beato has just lost one.

    My final opinion towards people like Rick Beato...just let people be to make and enjoy what they want. You're not in control of who likes what. Concentrate and focus on making what you like and listening to what you like. Your audience will soon follow. It's really that simple.

    Wondering if he would have the gut to claim that music is not what it used to be after watching something like this:

    I stumbled upon this person in Instagram. Love what they do. Something for everyone on the platform we all loathe. One the other end, I started following some good funk drummers too. One place for gate keepers and the new. It’s not so bad once you nourish your algorithm and stop clicking on car wrecks and boobs, or whatever spikes your dopamine.

  • AudioGusAudioGus
    edited July 2023

    @richardyot said:
    @JanKun I think it’s partly linked to the disappearance of mass media, the death of live television and magazines.

    Kids used to watch TV. Would the Beatles have become as big as they did in the US if millions of kids hadn’t seen them on The Ed Sullivan Show? Would David Bowie have become a megastar without that appearance on Top Of The Pops in 1972? Would Oasis have conquered the world without the NME coverage in 1994?

    No kid reads magazines or watches TV anymore. It’s much harder for artists to break through.

    One of the reasons for the thriving indie scene in the UK in the eighties was the fact that John Peel used to play obscure music on BBC radio. There’s no equivalent to that today.

    Yah the funnel is truly gone. Any pod of influence that exists now is much smaller. Also, just put me down for 'yup' after all your posts.

  • supadomsupadom

    @JanKun i don’t think there’s more or less geniuses aka talented people now than then or vice versa. There’s more accessibility to tools as well as ways to be heard. The internet connectivity has changed the world immensely. There’s really no point in comparing.

    As far as genres I guess in the 40’s there were 3 or 4 that in the next 3 to 4 decades became 15. Now, there’s much more cross genre stuff that we’re so used to hearing it seems normal. Especially since the 80’s mish mash decade. Electronic music by itself has so many sub genres that it makes me wonder there’s much sense to pay attention anymore.

    As I write I realise how hard it is to get away from the musician’s perspective. I still think that today’s pop music, even if I don’t electively listen to it myself, can be clever and often is quite original.

  • simonnowissimonnowis

    lots to agree with this thread :)) the technology driving us, the scattering of options and opinions ...

    what did/do we need music for 🎶?

    more outlets and possibilities for this now ...

    songs strummed up by machines

    sim-phonies at our fingertips

  • abfabf

    @Lady_App_titude said:
    I have not watched Beato's video and don't really care about his or anybody else's opinion in this area.

    It seems that in history there are fertile times of great creative invention and progress (like the Renaissance) followed by fallow times, cycles of assimilation, reassessment, regression. Who knows why. But clearly the late 60s/early 70s was one of those times like the Renaissance where there was an incredible concentration of genius happening at once. The explosion of Chuck Berry-Little Richard, to Elvis and the early Beatles, through the progressive chain reaction to the mid 70s saw continual, bold, creative development of whole new concepts and genres in just a very few short years, giving rise to the birth of acid rock, hard rock, heavy metal, folk rock, country rock, funk, soul, Motown, progressive rock, jazz/rock fusion... and it just seemed like the sky was the limit and it would go on forever. Then by the late 70s it seemed there was nowhere left to go but back to the basics. Simplified styles such as punk, new wave, and disco emerged. These were largely rooted in a retro or overtly simplistic aesthetic -- more of a reaction to the recent trends than an attempt to move forward. Then came the 80s and the repurposing of actual audio content from the past with sampling. This was coupled with digital and general advances in production precision and clarity, so there were new sounds, a lot of it driven by new technology like samplers, drum machines, digital effects and editing. But you had stuff like Phil Colins covering Supreme hits from 20 years ago, but seemingly new to a new generation largely accomplished by new instrument sounds, drum machines and synths. There was still progress and innovation in these years, and lots of classics for sure, but production was starting to eclipse raw creative content. By the end of the 90s things were fully in decline culminating in what I like to call the Great Talent Crash of 2000. Sort of like the 1929 stock market crash followed by the great depression only for music. Which is where we've been for the last 20+ years. Even the artists still around from the classic era can't seem to write anything today that sounds as good. And this is not just a matter of tastes or generations, the music itself became objectively shittier by every measure --- rhythm, melody, harmony, lyrics ... The melodies jump up and down at intervals that resemble children's nursery rhymes, the lyrics are the most banal cliches, sometimes even stealing former classic titles like Katy Perry's California Girls, etc. The formulas, the focus-group-driven marketing, the algorithms... And the earworm factor! OMG! God help you if you get stuck in line at a checkout and one of these "hits" of today comes on.

    This is not to say that there isn't still great new music to be found out there. There HAS been progress in other areas -- it's easier than ever to produce music, post-scarcity access for the listener to more music than can be heard in a lifetime. It just seems a fallow time for ideas. No one realized it at the time, but history just happened to spit out The Beatles, Hendrix, Dylan, etc. at the same time, leaving the world basking in the cosmic background radiation of that big bang for generations.. And here we are in a world of reality-TV, 15-minutes-of-fame "stars" born of "idol" competitions regurgitating hits from 50 years ago.. Because this is just the way it unfolded at this point.

    Everything you said was just an opinion, especially the sentence "And this is not just a matter of tastes or generations, the music itself became objectively shittier by every measure --- rhythm, melody, harmony, lyrics ... The melodies jump up and down at intervals that resemble children's nursery rhymes..." Then you mention Chuck Berry as part of the fertile times of great creative invention. The man wrote melodies that resemble nursery rhymes. Remember "No Particular Place To Go"? I don't mind Chuck Berry, but to consider him the beginning of a Renaissance is crazy to me. What about the blues and jazz musicians that rockers have been stealing from for years?

    If, in 1938, I had been listening to something as exciting and rocking as Benny Goodman's famous live version of Louis Prima's "Sing Sing Sing", and then ten years later I turned on the radio and heard the popular songs of the day like "Maybelline" I would have thought everyone had lost their minds.

    If, in the 20th century, there was a Renaissance, it happened well before the 1960s.

    It's only opinion, a person keeps listening to and liking what they thought was good when they were young or else they keep an open mind and are rewarded with hearing beautiful, amazing new music all their life. It's just a choice we all make.

  • JanKunJanKun
    edited July 2023

    @supadom said:
    @JanKun i don’t think there’s more or less geniuses aka talented people now than then or vice versa. There’s more accessibility to tools as well as ways to be heard. The internet connectivity has changed the world immensely. There’s really no point in comparing.

    As far as genres I guess in the 40’s there were 3 or 4 that in the next 3 to 4 decades became 15. Now, there’s much more cross genre stuff that we’re so used to hearing it seems normal. Especially since the 80’s mish mash decade. Electronic music by itself has so many sub genres that it makes me wonder there’s much sense to pay attention anymore.

    As I write I realise how hard it is to get away from the musician’s perspective. I still think that today’s pop music, even if I don’t electively listen to it myself, can be clever and often is quite original.

    I understand there's no need to compare but it is a basic statistic observation. World population was 3.2 billions in 1963, 8 billions in 2023. The "potential" of talented people emerging from those 8 billions is huge. And as you mentioned, accessibility to tools:

    • the instruments are so cheap nowadays, I wish I had this choice and level of quality for entry level guitars 35 years ago when I started to learn.
    • you have access to your private teacher on your mobile phone available 24/7

    I am Just doing the math : more people, more tools, easier access to an ever growing database of knowledge, this is a natural "exponential" evolution. I personally predict a wave of instrumental virtuosi in the coming years. You could argue that virtuosity and talent are not necessarily the same thing and you would have a valid point. So my wording was probably not right.

    I personally stopped caring about sub genres. As I mentioned, a producer comes with a new kick/ hi hat pattern, boom, new subgenre, it doesn't really matter to me. And there are incredibly talented people out there. You don't need to create a new subgenre to be original. Someone with a strong identity and attitude both musically and lyrically playing in a rock or punk vibe will sound original to me even if rock and punk are not new.

    But I keep this question open : with the pool of existing instruments currently at our disposal that haven't revolutionary changed since the 60s 70s, and the fact that pop music usually relies heavily on diatonic music and 4/4 is there still a room for a new genre (not subgenre) for popular music? Probably need a time machine to answer that one 😉

  • michael_mmichael_m

    Rick Beato comes over as a grumpy old fart quite often.

    He’s a good guitarist and his breakdown of great songs is really good, but he doesn’t seem to want to look outside of his comfort zone.

    There’s a ton of really good music out there right now, as there always has been. Sometimes you have to search for it, but it’s there. Pop music has its ups and downs, but there’s never really a period when pop music is totally devoid of talent.

  • JanKunJanKun

    @abf said:

    @Lady_App_titude said:
    I have not watched Beato's video and don't really care about his or anybody else's opinion in this area.

    It seems that in history there are fertile times of great creative invention and progress (like the Renaissance) followed by fallow times, cycles of assimilation, reassessment, regression. Who knows why. But clearly the late 60s/early 70s was one of those times like the Renaissance where there was an incredible concentration of genius happening at once. The explosion of Chuck Berry-Little Richard, to Elvis and the early Beatles, through the progressive chain reaction to the mid 70s saw continual, bold, creative development of whole new concepts and genres in just a very few short years, giving rise to the birth of acid rock, hard rock, heavy metal, folk rock, country rock, funk, soul, Motown, progressive rock, jazz/rock fusion... and it just seemed like the sky was the limit and it would go on forever. Then by the late 70s it seemed there was nowhere left to go but back to the basics. Simplified styles such as punk, new wave, and disco emerged. These were largely rooted in a retro or overtly simplistic aesthetic -- more of a reaction to the recent trends than an attempt to move forward. Then came the 80s and the repurposing of actual audio content from the past with sampling. This was coupled with digital and general advances in production precision and clarity, so there were new sounds, a lot of it driven by new technology like samplers, drum machines, digital effects and editing. But you had stuff like Phil Colins covering Supreme hits from 20 years ago, but seemingly new to a new generation largely accomplished by new instrument sounds, drum machines and synths. There was still progress and innovation in these years, and lots of classics for sure, but production was starting to eclipse raw creative content. By the end of the 90s things were fully in decline culminating in what I like to call the Great Talent Crash of 2000. Sort of like the 1929 stock market crash followed by the great depression only for music. Which is where we've been for the last 20+ years. Even the artists still around from the classic era can't seem to write anything today that sounds as good. And this is not just a matter of tastes or generations, the music itself became objectively shittier by every measure --- rhythm, melody, harmony, lyrics ... The melodies jump up and down at intervals that resemble children's nursery rhymes, the lyrics are the most banal cliches, sometimes even stealing former classic titles like Katy Perry's California Girls, etc. The formulas, the focus-group-driven marketing, the algorithms... And the earworm factor! OMG! God help you if you get stuck in line at a checkout and one of these "hits" of today comes on.

    This is not to say that there isn't still great new music to be found out there. There HAS been progress in other areas -- it's easier than ever to produce music, post-scarcity access for the listener to more music than can be heard in a lifetime. It just seems a fallow time for ideas. No one realized it at the time, but history just happened to spit out The Beatles, Hendrix, Dylan, etc. at the same time, leaving the world basking in the cosmic background radiation of that big bang for generations.. And here we are in a world of reality-TV, 15-minutes-of-fame "stars" born of "idol" competitions regurgitating hits from 50 years ago.. Because this is just the way it unfolded at this point.

    Everything you said was just an opinion, especially the sentence "And this is not just a matter of tastes or generations, the music itself became objectively shittier by every measure --- rhythm, melody, harmony, lyrics ... The melodies jump up and down at intervals that resemble children's nursery rhymes..." Then you mention Chuck Berry as part of the fertile times of great creative invention. The man wrote melodies that resemble nursery rhymes. Remember "No Particular Place To Go"? I don't mind Chuck Berry, but to consider him the beginning of a Renaissance is crazy to me. What about the blues and jazz musicians that rockers have been stealing from for years?

    If, in 1938, I had been listening to something as exciting and rocking as Benny Goodman's famous live version of Louis Prima's "Sing Sing Sing", and then ten years later I turned on the radio and heard the popular songs of the day like "Maybelline" I would have thought everyone had lost their minds.

    If, in the 20th century, there was a Renaissance, it happened well before the 1960s.

    It's only opinion, a person keeps listening to and liking what they thought was good when they were young or else they keep an open mind and are rewarded with hearing beautiful, amazing new music all their life. It's just a choice we all make.

    I am not an expert in musicology but I do agree that using the word Renaissance is probably not the most accurate term even though I understand the intention. I would say that pop music owes a lot to a various range of musicians and composer from the end of the 19th and beginning of 20th. I don't know why but Satie comes to mind together with Ravel, Gershwin, Duke Ellington and of course bluesman like Charley Patton or Robert Johnson which I consider (maybe wrongly) as the first generation of minstrel show every being recorded.

  • JanKunJanKun
    edited July 2023

    Double post

  • JanKunJanKun

    Double post

  • JanKunJanKun
    edited July 2023

    @michael_m said:
    Rick Beato comes over as a grumpy old fart quite often.

    He’s a good guitarist and his breakdown of great songs is really good, but he doesn’t seem to want to look outside of his comfort zone.

    There’s a ton of really good music out there right now, as there always has been. Sometimes you have to search for it, but it’s there. Pop music has its ups and downs, but there’s never really a period when pop music is totally devoid of talent.

    To grumpy I would also add lazy old fart. Which is inadmissible for a pseudo influencer with millions of subscribers. He only looks at big numbers on Spotify to make his statements. He very probably doesn't know where to look so he jumps to the conclusion that there's no interesting things happening out of his studio. And when his algorithm miraculously let him find something made by young musicians, he gently praises them first not to displease potential new subscribers and then destroy them later in one of his rants claiming for exemple that they have less merit then his generation because young people have access to YouTube tutorials to learn music. I mean huh ? I am a very happy unsubscriber for 2 months.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @JanKun said:

    @michael_m said:
    Rick Beato comes over as a grumpy old fart quite often.

    He’s a good guitarist and his breakdown of great songs is really good, but he doesn’t seem to want to look outside of his comfort zone.

    There’s a ton of really good music out there right now, as there always has been. Sometimes you have to search for it, but it’s there. Pop music has its ups and downs, but there’s never really a period when pop music is totally devoid of talent.

    To grumpy I would also add lazy old fart. Which is inadmissible for a pseudo influencer with millions of subscribers. He only looks at big numbers on Spotify to make his statements. He very probably doesn't know where to look so he jumps to the conclusion that there's no interesting things happening out of his studio. And when his algorithm miraculously let him find something made by young musicians, he gently praises them first not to displease potential new subscribers and then destroy them later in one of his rants claiming for exemple that they have less merit then his generation because young people have access to YouTube tutorials to learn music. I mean huh ? I am a very happy unsubscriber for 2 months.

    He reminds me of that ‘Four Yorkshiremen’ Monty Python sketch when he talks about how hard it was to be a musician back in the day.

  • JeffChasteenJeffChasteen

    “We had to tune to a pitchpipe!”

    — Rick Beato

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @AudioGus said:

    @richardyot said:
    @JanKun I think it’s partly linked to the disappearance of mass media, the death of live television and magazines.

    Kids used to watch TV. Would the Beatles have become as big as they did in the US if millions of kids hadn’t seen them on The Ed Sullivan Show? Would David Bowie have become a megastar without that appearance on Top Of The Pops in 1972? Would Oasis have conquered the world without the NME coverage in 1994?

    No kid reads magazines or watches TV anymore. It’s much harder for artists to break through.

    One of the reasons for the thriving indie scene in the UK in the eighties was the fact that John Peel used to play obscure music on BBC radio. There’s no equivalent to that today.

    Yah the funnel is truly gone. Any pod of influence that exists now is much smaller. Also, just put me down for 'yup' after all your posts.

    Those important influences like John Peel also had negative effects. He didn't like Felt, for example, and lack of his patronage stymied their career.

    I've also enjoyed reading the comments about the bad aspects of the whole tribal thing among teenagers growing up in the 80s. Even things like the rivalry between Smiths fans and Cure heads. Frankly, although it was fun at the time, it all seems very foolish and childish in some ways, looking back.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @JeffChasteen said:
    “We had to tune to a pitchpipe!”

    — Rick Beato

    Lol....

    "We didn't even have pitch pipes"

    • Prehistoric animal-horn blower
  • JanKunJanKun

    @JeffChasteen said:
    “We had to tune to a pitchpipe!”

    — Rick Beato

    You were lucky to have one! We had to tune to this old rotten piece of copper found in the garbage bin where we lived !

  • ecouecou

    L> @JeffChasteen said:

    “We had to tune to a pitchpipe!”

    — Rick Beato

    Oh boy !!! Feeling pretty old right about now.

  • jwmmakerofmusicjwmmakerofmusic
    edited July 2023

    @michael_m Exactly! Rick Beato is only looking at the Billboard Top 10. He isn't looking on SoundCloud or BandCamp or any other place online where talent exists! Even so, if there isn't much creativity in the Billboard Top 10, if someone likes those songs, why should they be faulted for liking those songs? Why should a whole generation be insulted by an intolerant sack of dusty old bones who thinks he's an "influencer"? 😂

    @abf Well said mate. 😎

    @JanKun I unsubbed from Rick Beato earlier today, and when Youtube suggested one of his videos, I clicked "not interested". 😮‍💨 Honestly, he's evolved into one of the most tiresome "influencers" on Youtube, and I have no room in my life for such negativity anymore. At least he's calm about expressing his opinions.

    However, I heard some of his original music, and while he's definitely talented, he's also rather bland. (Of course that's only my personal subjective opinion, not objective fact, so your mileage may vary.) I get far more fun out of listening to Minimal Techno, Trance, EDM, Lofi, Ambient, Electronica, Musique Concrete, Disco, Rock, Metal, HipHop (old school and modern), Pop (classic and modern), Jazz, "Adult Contemporary/Easy Listening", etc than listening to Rick's boring twaddle.

    Oh and speaking of Rock n Roll, has Rick ever heard of Alestorm?

    An amazing modern Metal band that blows his music out of the water both lyrically and musically, in my own opinion of course.

  • gusgranitegusgranite

    I honestly believe human creativity never stops. No generation has ‘peak art’. It’s complicated though because it needs an outlet to become a movement. The death of live venues this past decade is a definite loss for the current generation. So much music and culture has sprung from the live experience of sound systems, club PAs, indie nights, etc. The current younger generation will still find a way to create because water will flow but it might look different to what we expect.

  • jwmmakerofmusicjwmmakerofmusic

    @gusgranite said:
    I honestly believe human creativity never stops. No generation has ‘peak art’. It’s complicated though because it needs an outlet to become a movement. The death of live venues this past decade is a definite loss for the current generation. So much music and culture has sprung from the live experience of sound systems, club PAs, indie nights, etc. The current younger generation will still find a way to create because water will flow but it might look different to what we expect.

    I for one am excited to see what the youngsters come up with. :)

  • JeffChasteenJeffChasteen

    @ecou said:
    L> @JeffChasteen said:

    “We had to tune to a pitchpipe!”

    — Rick Beato

    Oh boy !!! Feeling pretty old right about now.

    Even older than the kids who had to tune to the E at the beginning of “Eruption”!

    I used to pretend to tune to a mouth harp. I saw Mick Jagger doing it before the 69 Hyde Park concert, and it just looked so damn cool.

  • JeffChasteenJeffChasteen

    @gusgranite said:
    I honestly believe human creativity never stops. No generation has ‘peak art’. It’s complicated though because it needs an outlet to become a movement. The death of live venues this past decade is a definite loss for the current generation. So much music and culture has sprung from the live experience of sound systems, club PAs, indie nights, etc. The current younger generation will still find a way to create because water will flow but it might look different to what we expect.

    I agree with this message.

  • JeffChasteenJeffChasteen

    @JanKun said:

    @JeffChasteen said:
    “We had to tune to a pitchpipe!”

    — Rick Beato

    You were lucky to have one! We had to tune to this old rotten piece of copper found in the garbage bin where we lived !

    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
    “It was hard work, but it made us tough and soulful. It was almost like working at
    Dockery Plantation!”

  • JeffChasteenJeffChasteen

    @Gavinski said:

    @JeffChasteen said:
    “We had to tune to a pitchpipe!”

    — Rick Beato

    Lol....

    "We didn't even have pitch pipes"

    • Prehistoric animal-horn blower

    😂🐃

  • ervinervin

    I am aware that this adds nothing to the substance of the debate, but has anyone else noticed how poorly made this response video is? I'm decidedly not talking about the quality of the arguments, only about the presentation. Simply put, it's a crap video.

    (I'm also aware that my reaction to it may simply be a sign of me getting too old 🤷)

  • JanKunJanKun

    @ervin said:
    I am aware that this adds nothing to the substance of the debate, but has anyone else noticed how poorly made this response video is? I'm decidedly not talking about the quality of the arguments, only about the presentation. Simply put, it's a crap video.

    (I'm also aware that my reaction to it may simply be a sign of me getting too old 🤷)

    I wouldn't say crap, maybe amateurish. I personally find it gives it a LoFi charm, and a David vs Goliath vibe.

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @JanKun said:

    @ervin said:
    I am aware that this adds nothing to the substance of the debate, but has anyone else noticed how poorly made this response video is? I'm decidedly not talking about the quality of the arguments, only about the presentation. Simply put, it's a crap video.

    (I'm also aware that my reaction to it may simply be a sign of me getting too old 🤷)

    I wouldn't say crap, maybe amateurish. I personally find it gives it a LoFi charm, and a David vs Goliath vibe.

    I only watched a few mins of it, but I definitely agree with JanKun.

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @Gavinski said:

    @JeffChasteen said:
    “We had to tune to a pitchpipe!”

    — Rick Beato

    Lol....

    "We didn't even have pitch pipes"

    • Prehistoric animal-horn blower

    …and you tell that to the kids of today, and they don’t believe you…

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