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The End of Sampling? (Benn Jordan vid)
Always find Benn interesting. Turns out he now prefers Pianoteq to most or all sampled pianos:
Comments
Pianoteq is awesome.
+1 thousand. Just got me a proper midi piano keyboard and Pianoteq, and it’s amazing
Just watched the vid. Very interesting. I have wanted Objekt for a while, but I’m not buying Reason to get it. What other physical modeling synths do you all recommend? Desktop and iOS?
I really prefer those sounds over synth sounds. I think that’s why I like FM, which can get quite bonky and boingy. And of course a quick iPhone-and-Koala sample session while whacking household objects is always good.
My sentiments exactly. Although, drum samples, granular synthesis and wavetables are still a part of my life 🙃
Pianoteq is mind blowing to me. Idk how ive slept on it all these years. I recently got 4 or so packs for it, and yah, its replaced my go to pianos over night.
Im not entirely sold on the swam stuff, but it does sound good layered in with other string libraries.
Objekt is fucking INSANE lol. I am lucky in that i have had reason for years now, so i was able to get it with out having to make a crazy expensive purchase or the subscription. @mistercharlie there are many other phsyical modeling synths out there, but Objekt to me is next next level. Ive been putting it on drum breaks, and it turns them into full on orchestral percussion with just a few tweaks, press randomize, and it spits out ear shattering FM wonky skrillex stabs. Fucking nuts.
I believe Logic has a pretty damn good one, called Sculpture. At least they had one in the past, not sure on the current state of it.
SWAM, NAADA (Geoshred IAPs), the MI Rings and Elements ports.
Same... Love Fm. On IOS make sure you get spring sound, even though it's not IAA. Some of that code is still being used in the Osmose. On desktop, for something experimental, Plasmonic will blow your mind! Also on desktop, Roli Equator 2 is glorious.
Then you also have Sculpture in Logic, albeit, currently, with a very uninspiring UI on the iPad currently. Then there is the Swam stuff, but the physical modeling engine is not open to much very experimental tweaking in the same way as these others. Also don't overlook Geoshred. Apparently it's a lot more tweakable than first appears, but I haven't really gone there myself. The Naada instrument bundles, especially on sale, are great value btw, if you like Indian and Chinese instruments.
And if you like FM, definitely check out that new Triplex Snapper app. Some of the iceworks apps also have physical modeling but it doesn't really compete with those things mentioned above like Equator and Plasmonic.
Your vid is what finally convinced me to buy Spring Sound a few months back and it’s lovely. And can get veeeery bonkers. FM is just awesome. Probably my favorite kind of synthesis. And maybe the most versatile.
Three organs from GSi: Red Animal, CompactDeLuxe, and VB3M all are great. Also, Free Vibes meets my needs (and the price is right!).
Yep those GSI organs are fantastic. I don’t have VB3 yet because I already have multiple tonewheel organs (it’s on my list though), but the other 2 are absolutely fantastic. I’m a huge organ fan, especially Vox and Farfisa. And GSI really nailed it.
My only issue with the video is that he doesn't really represent sample libraries in a particularly accurate or flattering way. There is a lot of range between quality sample libraries and poor ones. For things like piano, sample libraries can get VERY close. For things with post-attack dynamics, it gets more complicated-- and samples do tend to fall down.
I have the Pianoteq Pro on my laptop (I still haven't put it on my iPad yet). I do love it-- both for piano sounds, and for all the other things it does -- really really well!
My only slight complaints are that the hammer noise on the very highest notes seems like it uses samples, and has kind of an unpleasantness to it. Fortunately, the hammer noise can be controlled.
For pure piano, I prefer The Grandeur from NI. But if I need something more customizable, PT all the way.
Another modeling synth for iOS I really love is Respiro. The UI isn't the prettiest, and really it's only a demo/player, not an editor, so you have to have the desktop version to make your own patches. No ads, and the developer is the best of the best. (Full disclosure, I wrote the manual for him. Labor of love.)
Reaktor (from NI) also has some really good physical modeling things.
Madrona Labs Kaivo should also be mentioned in this topic.
It runs nativly on apple silicon, and an eventual ios version was discussed...
Yes, Kaivo is lovely, wish they would port to ios.
Creating brand new instruments is where it's truly at (with today's state of the art).
As for recreating existing instruments, consider the following nugget:
Sampling isn't perfect, because it leaves things out;
modeling isn't perfect, because it adds things that aren't supposed to be there.
Modeling can boost your immersion in performance and creativity, because it will give you a more intimate feedback loop as you're performing. For some instruments, sampling doesn't even come close, it would just be silly.
But modeling still has quality issues that are much more severe than what people have already fought epic battles over in the analog vs digital wars, for comparison. Everyone is in the enthusiastic phase right now after the 20-year modeling winter, but someday, someone will come along with a magnifying glass and will start asking questions about badly placed harmonics and whatnot.
Use the right tool for the right job, and just enjoy that there is more to choose from. And don't feel bad if you load up a U-20 piano patch every now and then. I know I won't.
Randy has set a release date for the new Sumu in October, so there may be a chance the iOS porting project gets some attention after that
Was just reading this lovely article about recorders, and it got me wondering whether we have any decent auv3 physically modeled recorders. I'm guessing not!
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/aug/15/its-vastly-complex-even-dangerous-in-defence-of-the-recorder-the-marmite-of-the-woodwind-world
Could one say that TC-11 also goes under Physical Modeling? It's just 50Mb. There's no exciter/trigger part so maybe not. Fantastic it is, whatever it's called.
In the world of EWIs, EVIs, wind controllers in general, Respiro ($170?) and EVI-NER ($15) are two highly regarded desktop synths (in addition to SWAM stuff). Both do good job of creating woodwind- and brass-like sounds and (to lesser extent?) strings, though not necessarily at emulating any instrument in particular. EVI-NER has lots of conventional synth elements, but I believe also involves physical modeling. Respiro is basically 100% physical modeling, programming patches is difficult (as with many physical modeled synths) and the creator has created lots of presets that can be used as starting points, and given easy ways to modify them.
Respiro has a free iOS version that includes a handful of presets that aren't very tweakable (unless you know how desktop version works). However, if you have desktop version you can create whatever preset you want and transfer it to the iOS version, and presets can have macros defined that let you modulate the most important elements.
I’ve pondered the same question @Gavinski . Richard Harvey (of 1970s Gryphon fame + lots of subsequent film scores) made an album called Divisions on a Ground which I still think is one of the best demonstrations ever recorded of how beautiful a recorder can sound.
Thanks, I’ll have to check that out. Yes, the recorder is a very unfairly regarded instrument in general!
Hell yeah, it’s so much more expressive and saves a ton of space
Keith Jarrett playing two tracks of recorder plus piano. So beautiful:
He overdubs recorder and soprano sax on this one:
This is beautiful