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Please help me understand Ableton link
Hi guys,
Sorry if it's a dumb question.
I get that it allows to share a common tempo between processus over ethernet. I personally use it locally, on single device to sync various apps.
However, it seems that once it's started, there is like a Master clock of some sort. Do you see what I mean ?
The question is, how can we start/stop it ?
the Play button in Aum/Loopy/... Make the app wait for a full cycle of this clock. I Would like to Start right away.
Thanks for your enlightment
Comments
There are generally two types of Link implementations.
First version only allowed BPM sharing across the network, second version supports Start/Stop sharing on top of BPM.
There is no master/slave relationship between peers. The first that starts will be followed by the rest, but every peer can alter tempo or start in sync. Obviously if app implemented the newest version of Link then you can set it up in each individual app to start with together with the first app or leave the option off and start manually.
You can only start the first app ‘straight away’. The rest will wait for new cycle.
If even the first app is ‘waiting’ then you probably have another peer on your network that is already running or driving Link.
While some apps (loopy pro is one) have an option to act like a master and start right away, the other link apps won’t..they will start at the beginning of the next bar . So, if you want things to start together, you generally have to accept that “start” means “start at the beginning of the next bar”.
While it might not be obvious, this universal clock that is always running solves a lot of problems of keeping apps coordinated and tight…and the apps actually know the tempo (whereas wit midi clock, the apps are all calculating the tempo based on the ticks they are receiving from the master).
Oh, OK .. You mean the first app that has been opened with ableton link...
If there is only one app running with Ableton Link, it will start immediately. If there are multiple apps running with link on then when you press start, the linked apps will play starting at the next link cycle. There are some exceptions. Loopy Pro, for example,has a special link setting so that its transport will start immediately when you start its transport (rather than start at the next link cycle) -- however all the other linked apps will start at the next cycle boundary. There are some apps with buggy link implementations that don't wait till the next cycle.
You might try the classic midi clock since you use ethernet and not wireless
Hopefully Ableton will update Link for instant start
@espiegel123 @0tolerance4silence
I tried the Following thing:
1st, i opened AUM with Link enabled
Then, i inserted an instance of Loopy Pro auv3 and enabled Linknfrom the settings.
So if what I understand is correct, the first app is AUM, and it should start right away.
However, both AUM and Loopy are waiting for the next cycle.
Can you explain that to me ?
I think you misunderstood something I wrote. I should have said client rather than app. Perhaps that was confusing.
Most link apps stay aligned to Ableton link’s always running clock when there are two or more link clients and wait for the next bar boundary to start.
If loopy auv3 and AUM are set to link, there are two link clients. If AUM is the only link client it will start right away. In this case, set the loopy auv3 to host sync not Ableton link and AUM won’t wait.
@ttk : loopy pro has a setting to be master when using link…which is an unusual setting. When it is on, loopy will start right away when you press its transport and it ignores tempo changes. Other link apps though will still wait for the next boundary…so typically that will be one bar later.
@espiegel123 @0tolerance4silence
I tried the Following thing:
1st, i opened AUM with Link enabled
Then, i inserted an instance of Loopy Pro auv3 and enabled Linknfrom the settings.
So if what I understand is correct, the first app is AUM, and it should start right away.
However, both AUM and Loopy are waiting for the next cycle.
Can you explain that to me ? > @espiegel123 said:
Unfortunately, I can't use this option, as it makes it ignore the tempo changes
@ttk : to be clear: I am not suggesting anything. I am just explaining the options since there seemed to be some confusion about how this all works .
The normal link operation is for all clients to start at the beginning of the next sync quantum (the beginning of the next bar). This is true whether a client was the first one launched or not. That’s just how it is.
So, if I understand well, to the question:
Can a client start/stop the clock ?
The answer is NO.
Can you confirm ?
If the clients have the Start/Stop option turned on then stopping a link client will stop the other clients.
If all apps are stopped I believe the very first one to start may start immediately and the rest will follow. At least that's the way I've used it in Loopy Pro AUv3 running in AUM.
The way I used it:
That said, a lot has changed since I last worked with it this way. Loopy has since gained the "Master" setting for one thing. So, I'm not saying I'm sure this will still work as it did. But it might be worth a try if that workflow is anywhere near what is needed.
If I understand the question correctly, you're asking if the "master Link metronome" can be stopped by an app. If that's the question then the answer is NO. All the clients can be stopped, but the "clock" is still running in the background and restarting the apps will wait for the next measure downbeat to come 'round.
There may be an exception in some cases if all clients are stopped. For instance, I think Loopy Pro starts immediately if no other apps are actively causing the Link clock to run. On the other hand, I believe Ape Matrix keeps the Link clock running all the time whether its transport is running or not.
Please no-one ding me too hard if any of this is wrong. It's late, I'm tired, and I'm breaking my own rule of not writing things from memory without testing first. I'll try to test some specifics tomorrow if others haven't corrected any errors I've made before then.
@wim: this sounds like you have Loopy’s act as master option turned on. In my experience other apps (that correctly implement link) won’t behave that way and behave as I have described —always waiting till the beginning of the next bar. This ensures that they all start/stop together.
Loopy and its act as master option isn’t typical of other clients.
__> @wim said:
no, ethernet is wired (cable / not wireless)
This work was done before Loopy had that as an option. Maybe it worked as master before and the new option is to turn it off? I thought the act as master option was only to act as "tempo" master meaning that rather than join the Link session at the current Link tempo when you start it up, it will set the Link tempo to its own session tempo.
Clearly I need to shut up with all the speculation and memory dredging and do some actual tests. Because for one thing, I always thought that if there are no remaining Link enabled apps running, the "clock" would stop. I don't see how it could keep running in that case.
Anyway. I'll go away until I have some facts to communicate.
Perhaps, you are remembering a time period when Loopy didn't have link working quite right (which was the case at first). There was a while (long passed) when Loopy started prematurely or out of phase with other link clients when it initiated playback.
If you don't have the "as master" option in Loopy, Loopy acts the same as AUM and Audiobus and other well-behaved Ableton link clients as I described earlier and below.
When there is only one link client (just one launched app or AUv3 running and no other link apps or AUs) running, the app starts/stops instantly because the link sync quantum only applies when there is more than one link client running.
When there are multiple link clients, pressing start in a link client will cause that client and all others that have start/stop turned on to start at the beginning of the next sync quantum (usually one measure but some apps let you set a larger quantum). AUM and Loopy both have visualizations that show the Link clock when their transports aren't running to help you understand when the start will really happen. Try it out with AUM's transport. I consider AUM to be the gold standard on iOS for its implementation. Do you find cases where there is more than one Ableton Link client where AUM doesn't wait till the beginning of the next measure?
Loopy Pro has a link option that has slightly different behavior...it is pretty much unique to Loopy. Loopy's 'as master' option causes it to both ignore incoming tempo changes AND lets it start immediately when its transport is started. I think (but haven't confirmed) that it does some voodoo so that when it starts, it sets the sync quantum so that the other clients (some of whom may actually ignore the sync quantum) will start at the next bar. I could be wrong about this. but I have done a bit of work with it set up like that and that is what it seems to do.
I've tested this out and can post a video demonstration. If you experience different behavior, I would be interested to know the details.
(FWIW, there are some link clients that don't behave consistent with this, but I am pretty sire those are bugs).
AUM's visualization of the Link clock/cycle:
Loopy Pro's visualization:
doesn’t work. Literally broken.
What do you mean? Can you provide more detail?