Where does one begin, from knowing nothing of coding, to become an iOS developer, aimed at music...

RanDoM_rRay

Music tools, but maybe games later. Pretty good at self teaching, but don't know the road map. I know "audiokit" is useful, and i hear of "Swift" and "Xcode", from older posts. Also how far can i get with just an ipad, do i still need a Mac to develop/test? Maybe even a well known Online Course, either free on YouTube or maybe my library has access if it's some subscription stuff. And i love reading/learning so even one of those O'Reilly books could help? But I know it's something you have to keep practicing, building on, like math...

Danny_Mammy

YouTube is your friend and buy a good coding book off amazon. Like anything the most important is your own effort, patience and time.

here is a good YouTube channel on audio coding

https://www.youtube.com/@TheAudioProgrammer/videos

CracklePot

If you really know nothing about coding, I recommend you get Mozaic and start with that.
Super basic scripting, great documentation, and you are making music app-like utilities as your projects.

NeuM

If you like learning new languages and spending hundreds or thousands of hours on something that may never pay off, then coding might be right up your alley. 🤓

CracklePot

@NeuM said:
If you like learning new languages and spending hundreds or thousands of hours on something that may never pay off, then coding might be right up your alley. 🤓

Or even music, maybe.
🤣

Fingolfinzz

https://juce.com/

It’s helped me grasp making vsts. I just do it for personal use though

wim

I can only relate some things learned during my (failed) attempt.

• You will need a Mac if you plan to actually complete anything as a finished app. I bought a refurbished 2015 MacBook Pro. It is serving me well for many things. I don't regret the purchase for one second even though I'm not using it for the reason I bought it. I do wish I had bought something a little newer as the one I have is just a bit too old for goodies such as AirPlay, Stage Manager, and the latest MacOS. If I had it to do again I would get a modest M1 or M2 Mac mini.
• Xcode is free with MacOS, and yes, you need it to test, compile, and publish iOS apps. It's an excellent development environment and makes the process seamless. Even if you end up using something like JUCE to do the bulk of the coding, you'll still need Xcode. It has simulators of all the different iOS devices and operating system versions for purposes of testing.
• The Swift language can be used for much of the development, especially the UI, but not really when it comes to audio. The down and dirty digital signal processing (DSP) code needs to be realtime safe in Objective C, C, or C++. Xcode will let you develop in all of these languages in an integrated way. (Learning to interface between Swift and these languages to make a whole app ended up being where I threw in the towel.)
• AudioKit is a free framework that can help hugely by providing libraries to invoke rather than having to do a lot of low level DSP programming. The downside is the temptation not to learn and control what is really going on in your code.
• JUCE is another framework that can build largely complete cross-platform applications. It's free with restrictions for private and educational use.
• If you're considering developing AUv3 applications, Apple's abysmal documentation for this is maddening! Fortunately the 3rd party resources have improved since my attempt at learning. Generous developers such as @cem_olcay and @GeertBevin have contributed full open source code app examples.
• You'll need at least a free Apple developer account to publish apps to your iOS devices. To publish to anyone else you'll need a paid ($99 per year?) account to use the App Store. You'll have to maintain that account from then on or your apps will disappear from the store.
• SwiftUI is the Apple supported direction for user interface design going forward. You'll find tons of Youtube resources for UIKit, the older way of doing things. It's probably best to stick with SwiftUI, but personally I preferred UIKit.
• I learned a lot from the Code with Chris YouTube channel in the beginning.

I just said you'll need a Mac. That's true. However, you can dip your toes in the water with Swift Playgrounds on an iPad. Apparently you can now create and publish finished apps with it. Maybe, but in a very limited sense.

Playgrounds could be a great way to get started. It's designed for learning. You can learn a lot from it and use it as an onramp to learning more. As you get a feel for it's limitations that should help you focus on what you need to take it further.

Now! Take all of this with a HUGE grain of salt. Remember, this is all coming from someone that was in your shoes and gave up. Much of what I've said above is over-simplified or not completely accurate and will be corrected by others. 😎

NeuM

@wim said:
I can only relate some things learned during my (failed) attempt.

• You will need a Mac if you plan to actually complete anything as a finished app. I bought a refurbished 2015 MacBook Pro. It is serving me well for many things. I don't regret the purchase for one second even though I'm not using it for the reason I bought it. I do wish I had bought something a little newer as the one I have is just a bit too old for goodies such as AirPlay, Stage Manager, and the latest MacOS. If I had it to do again I would get a modest M1 or M2 Mac mini.
• Xcode is free with MacOS, and yes, you need it to test, compile, and publish iOS apps. It's an excellent development environment and makes the process seamless. Even if you end up using something like JUCE to do the bulk of the coding, you'll still need Xcode. It has simulators of all the different iOS devices and operating system versions for purposes of testing.
• The Swift language can be used for much of the development, especially the UI, but not really when it comes to audio. The down and dirty digital signal processing (DSP) code needs to be realtime safe in Objective C, C, or C++. Xcode will let you develop in all of these languages in an integrated way. (Learning to interface between Swift and these languages to make a whole app ended up being where I threw in the towel.)
• AudioKit is a free framework that can help hugely by providing libraries to invoke rather than having to do a lot of low level DSP programming. The downside is the temptation not to learn and control what is really going on in your code.
• JUCE is another framework that can build largely complete cross-platform applications. It's free with restrictions for private and educational use.
• If you're considering developing AUv3 applications, Apple's abysmal documentation for this is maddening! Fortunately the 3rd party resources have improved since my attempt at learning. Generous developers such as @cem_olcay and @GeertBevin have contributed full open source code app examples.
• You'll need at least a free Apple developer account to publish apps to your iOS devices. To publish to anyone else you'll need a paid ($99 per year?) account to use the App Store. You'll have to maintain that account from then on or your apps will disappear from the store.
• SwiftUI is the Apple supported direction for user interface design going forward. You'll find tons of Youtube resources for UIKit, the older way of doing things. It's probably best to stick with SwiftUI, but personally I preferred UIKit.

I just said you'll need a Mac. That's true. However, you can dip your toes in the water with Swift Playgrounds on an iPad. Apparently you can now create and publish finished apps with it. Maybe, but in a very limited sense.

Playgrounds could be a great way to get started. It's designed for learning. You can learn a lot from it and use it as an onramp to learning more. As you get a feel for it's limitations that should help you focus on what you need to take it further.

Now! Take all of this with a HUGE grain of salt. Remember, this is all coming from someone that was in your shoes and gave up. Much of what I've said above is over-simplified or not completely accurate and will be corrected by others. 😎

We may have passed each other on the road to nowhere... I worked with another person for about two years on an app and we ended up with nothing usable. It was a tough lesson. 😂

wim

@NeuM said:
We may have passed each other on the road to nowhere... I worked with another person for about two years on an app and we ended up with nothing usable. It was a tough lesson. 😂

Ha ha!
Yeh, but I'm sure @RanDoM_rRay is smarter than us.

Go for it @RanDoM_rRay! Don't give up like us losers. 3rd party help has really improved over the past few years. You'll get there. 👍🏼

NeuM

@wim said:

@NeuM said:
We may have passed each other on the road to nowhere... I worked with another person for about two years on an app and we ended up with nothing usable. It was a tough lesson. 😂

Ha ha!
Yeh, but I'm sure @RanDoM_rRay is smarter than us.

Go for it @RanDoM_rRay! Don't give up like us losers. 3rd party help has really improved over the past few years. You'll get there. 👍🏼

Oh, I’m sure he is. Some of us were not built to code.

McD

FYI: The AudioKit folks have packaged a “Swift Playgrounds” setup to write Swift Music Apps in your iPad without needing a Mac. It would let you tackle the art of music app making with just an iPad to start and all for free.

The AudioKit Youtube introduction to set it up is here:

You start by downloading the Swift Playgrounds app from Apple:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/swift-playgrounds/id908519492

espiegel123

Fwiw, it doesn’t take tens of thousands of hours to learn to code. But there is a learning— which some enjoy and some don’t.

Getting started with Mozaic is any easy way to see if you like coding. The manual has a great intro to programming and good tutorials.

If you like that then push on to next levels. @wim had some good tips.

Bruques

@RanDoM_rRay said:
Music tools, but maybe games later. Pretty good at self teaching, but don't know the road map. I know "audiokit" is useful, and i hear of "Swift" and "Xcode", from older posts. Also how far can i get with just an ipad, do i still need a Mac to develop/test? Maybe even a well known Online Course, either free on YouTube or maybe my library has access if it's some subscription stuff. And i love reading/learning so even one of those O'Reilly books could help? But I know it's something you have to keep practicing, building on, like math...

My personal opinion, which is partly informed from having taught some of this, is

1
Gentle ish, and fun coding platform https://processing.org/ , absolutely fantastic for learning. By accident you then find yourself comfortable with Java and by extension a number of aspects of the C++ language, even though it's not quite C++, it's translatable.
(although it is for desktop, sorry

2
Even more gentle than processing.org, completing the whole of https://sonic-pi.net/tutorial.html Sonic Pi tutorial, in all its 14 numbered sections plus appendix, after which a lot of good stuff would have been imbibed.
(also dektop, sorry again
(I'm not doing very well at pointing out anything ios !

3 Much of what Emilie Gillet (aka Mutable Instruments) suggests
https://pichenettes.github.io/mutable-instruments-documentation/tech_notes/education/ which has advice on what books and online courses, and plenty more besides, albeit its not ios specfic and is module development specific so covers electronics resources as well.

After all of that and the aforementioned by others here following of some audiokit tutorials you'd be well on the way, and probably have more than enough knowledge to decide what else or what instead

eross

so try chat gtp and tell it to teach you coding as if you where a 5 years old. i’ve tried it and i have learned a ton

espiegel123

@eross said:
so try chat gtp and tell it to teach you coding as if you where a 5 years old. i’ve tried it and i have learned a ton

ChatGPT is helpful if you actually have good subject knowledge otherwise it is unreliable.

ik2000

@wim said:
I can only relate some things learned during my (failed) attempt.

• You will need a Mac if you plan to actually complete anything as a finished app. I bought a refurbished 2015 MacBook Pro. It is serving me well for many things. I don't regret the purchase for one second even though I'm not using it for the reason I bought it. I do wish I had bought something a little newer as the one I have is just a bit too old for goodies such as AirPlay, Stage Manager, and the latest MacOS. If I had it to do again I would get a modest M1 or M2 Mac mini.
• Xcode is free with MacOS, and yes, you need it to test, compile, and publish iOS apps. It's an excellent development environment and makes the process seamless. Even if you end up using something like JUCE to do the bulk of the coding, you'll still need Xcode. It has simulators of all the different iOS devices and operating system versions for purposes of testing.
• The Swift language can be used for much of the development, especially the UI, but not really when it comes to audio. The down and dirty digital signal processing (DSP) code needs to be realtime safe in Objective C, C, or C++. Xcode will let you develop in all of these languages in an integrated way. (Learning to interface between Swift and these languages to make a whole app ended up being where I threw in the towel.)
• AudioKit is a free framework that can help hugely by providing libraries to invoke rather than having to do a lot of low level DSP programming. The downside is the temptation not to learn and control what is really going on in your code.
• JUCE is another framework that can build largely complete cross-platform applications. It's free with restrictions for private and educational use.
• If you're considering developing AUv3 applications, Apple's abysmal documentation for this is maddening! Fortunately the 3rd party resources have improved since my attempt at learning. Generous developers such as @cem_olcay and @GeertBevin have contributed full open source code app examples.
• You'll need at least a free Apple developer account to publish apps to your iOS devices. To publish to anyone else you'll need a paid ($99 per year?) account to use the App Store. You'll have to maintain that account from then on or your apps will disappear from the store.
• SwiftUI is the Apple supported direction for user interface design going forward. You'll find tons of Youtube resources for UIKit, the older way of doing things. It's probably best to stick with SwiftUI, but personally I preferred UIKit.
• I learned a lot from the Code with Chris YouTube channel in the beginning.

I just said you'll need a Mac. That's true. However, you can dip your toes in the water with Swift Playgrounds on an iPad. Apparently you can now create and publish finished apps with it. Maybe, but in a very limited sense.

Playgrounds could be a great way to get started. It's designed for learning. You can learn a lot from it and use it as an onramp to learning more. As you get a feel for it's limitations that should help you focus on what you need to take it further.

Now! Take all of this with a HUGE grain of salt. Remember, this is all coming from someone that was in your shoes and gave up. Much of what I've said above is over-simplified or not completely accurate and will be corrected by others. 😎

@RanDoM_rRay Can I just say as a developer (but non iOS) this is an absolute fantastic list that @wim has put together and wholeheartedly agree with everything in here. I would say this is a great start. The code with Chris channel on YouTube looks amazing and having watched some of the starter videos it really does explain some of the gotchas that beginners possibly don’t get. Also another resource which has been amazing for me over the years with learning various programming languages and software development methodologies is the humble bundle site. The book bundles often has programming related books in pdf format that are available for a tiny cost and worth every cent (https://www.humblebundle.com/books). I’m sure there has been iOS specific books in there in the past and worth visiting every now and again. Good luck on your journey which I can say never ever ends… always something new to learn 😀

RanDoM_rRay

@wim , @Danny_Mammy , everyone here, even if it's desktop (ill have one again some day, THANK YOU. will start reading from the listed sources/videos... you guys are awesome, and believing in my intelligence, thanks. Im definitely a self teacher, and get off to learning.
Another question, every coding thing in the world mentions GitHub, and this is truly how dumb i am, but is there a MAP of what is what there, not knowing anything about coding, sometimes ill hear, "just use this free easy addon from Github", go there, and then idk what the hell is what. Like This is the part you should read first, these are the actual files you want to download... it's just all foreign to me. Sorry for my lacking simple under, but i wish to grow!

RanDoM_rRay

And i do have Mosaic now

RanDoM_rRay

And i see something like "iOS App Development for Dummies" but it's from 2014! Anyone know if that specific resource is still worth reading?

wim

There are a lot of different levels to what you'll be learning over time. It would be great if there was an A to Z guide somewhere that covers the whole scope of what you need, but there just isn't.

To get a feel for the overall Apple development ecosystem, this is a good starting place: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/. Since you don't have a Mac yet, you don't need to try to digest everything there but it may help understand how things fit together.

To get started with basic programming, I really recommend trying Swift Playgrounds on your iPad. Walk through every tutorial there. They introduce lots of fundamental concepts that you will need in plain language. As mentioned by others, Mozaic is also an excellent starting place, but not as directly applicable specifically for certain essential programming concepts such as functions, classes, objects and inheritance. It'll help with certain things for sure though.

If you don't have a Bluetooth typing keyboard, I can't recommend strongly enough that you get one. Seriously. I mean it. Trying to write code with an onscreen keyboard is murder. If you take away one thing from my walls of text here until you get your Mac, this is it. (I like this little guy myself: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EHSLFAY/)

As for Github. It's a repository for open source code. What you find there won't be a lot of help until you start to understand how the many, many files that go into producing a full working application fit together and until you begin to be able to read code. No there is no map for GitHub. It's a giant filing cabinet and version control system where developers can manage and share their code. It's worth poking around projects you're interested in and peaking into the source code files there. It won't make a lot of sense until you get a lot farther along, but you'll see things there that will trigger "ah ha!" moments as you begin to fill in the pieces.

Did I mention: get a bluetooth typing keyboard?

espiegel123

@RanDoM_rRay : something to know about app development is that programming is one part and code management/deployment is a sort of different thing that may or may not be needed to learn depending on what your are doing.

Kind of like how playing music is different from knowing about gear and DAWs and notation. And which of those things you need to understand depends on what you are doing.

SevenSystems

Also, app development does not only involve programming or publishing your app. Arguably more important than programming is conceptualization, user interface and interaction design, i.e. "what do I want my app to do, and how can it best do that (conceptually, not technically), and how can I enable the user to interact with the app in the most efficient / intuitive (sometimes opposing goals) way possible?"

AlmostAnonymous

@RanDoM_rRay Join the The Audio Programmer discord. Simple as.
https://www.theaudioprogrammer.com/discord

Edit: sorry for the crappy way this forum display pics….

Edit 2: granted 90% of the peop,e there are way over my head and skill level, but hanging around the crew you wanna be a part of kinda helps

RanDoM_rRay

@wim got Swift Playgrounds too, and for sure a Bluetooth keyboard. Can't stand the dumbshit of not being able to TOUCH and insert in the middle of a word.

@SevenSystems as an artist, trained in psychology, im definitely aware of the things you mention. Recently read Design is Storytelling by Ellen Luoton, good explanations in there.

@AlmostAnonymous appreciate the Discord mention, im just rarely connected to the net and hate typing on my phone, but definitely you are right, ive always sought out ppl who knew more than i did in whatever im studying at the moment, it's how i ended up on these awesome forums

GeertBevin

I have one piece of advise that has worked for me with anything new I try to venture into:

Pick a small pet project idea and make it from start to finish

I've never done well with studying, watching videos, reading a lot of literature, but have learned most things by having to educate myself about the next real need for the project I try to create. It's going to be hard and frustrating, there's going to be many times you have no idea how to do to something, but at least you have a guide for your efforts.

SevenSystems

@RanDoM_rRay said:
@SevenSystems as an artist, trained in psychology, im definitely aware of the things you mention. Recently read Design is Storytelling by Ellen Luoton, good explanations in there.

Good stuff, have fun on your journey!

wim

@GeertBevin said:
I have one piece of advise that has worked for me with anything new I try to venture into:

Pick a small pet project idea and make it from start to finish

I've never done well with studying, watching videos, reading a lot of literature, but have learned most things by having to educate myself about the next real need for the project I try to create. It's going to be hard and frustrating, there's going to be many times you have no idea how to do to something, but at least you have a guide for your efforts.

Awesome! I wanted to suggest this, but thought I'd be laughed out of the room.
To me this is the best way to learn because you don't know what you need to know until you run into things you don't know.
Now a for real developer has validated my thoughts. I feel good now. 😎

AlmostAnonymous

@RanDoM_rRay said:
@wim got Swift Playgrounds too, and for sure a Bluetooth keyboard. Can't stand the dumbshit of not being able to TOUCH and insert in the middle of a word.

@SevenSystems as an artist, trained in psychology, im definitely aware of the things you mention. Recently read Design is Storytelling by Ellen Luoton, good explanations in there.

@AlmostAnonymous appreciate the Discord mention, im just rarely connected to the net and hate typing on my phone, but definitely you are right, ive always sought out ppl who knew more than i did in whatever im studying at the moment, it's how i ended up on these awesome forums

You don’t even have to interact in that discord. I’m still going through the cold feet thing myself, but just watching, lurking, and reading is helping me.

dogonBeats

I was going to ask this same question. I have 0 experience coding, yet browsed through various languages. Perhaps I was lazy in my attempts at learning. So it is safe to say that I have a long way to go. Thank you for sharing such valuable information for it will be very beneficial for everyone

Poppadocrock

Bookmarking this thread. If I ever take the plunge.

RanDoM_rRay

Apple has free Swift books too, in the Apple Books app, though i haven't hot to them yet, and some say outdated