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Is Amon Tobin really a genius?
Spoiler alert: yes!
Comments
I defy any musician to listen to Bricolage and not be impressed.
And many many others albums and songs.
I also really like this song by him.
I think his material is OK, but nothing exceptional. Definitely wouldn’t use the word genius to describe anything I have heard. You might as well call a few thousand other musicians geniuses if he gets to be called one.
Sounds like a bunch of random samples and basslines thrown together for no reason and then a few breakbeats added for gluing it together. Is it innovative? Probably. Is it "genius", i.e. does it require exceptional talent? Not sure!
(sorry, authentic out of my rear end talk at 4am, you have been warned 😄)
I'll have a proper listen when back up!
I agree. Though I was very into some of his stuff back in the day.
Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh. I must also admit I have a pretty narrow and conservative musical taste (i.e. traditional harmonic structure, chords, structured arrangement and buildup, etc..), so I probably simply am unable to "feel" it at all. Maybe I'm being unfair.
Rereading, yes it is a bit harsh haha. To be clear, the part I agree with is mostly the 'Is it innovative? Probably. Is it "genius", i.e. does it require exceptional talent? Not sure!'
Stuff that prioritises technical innovation over other aspects is rarely the stuff that stands the test of time well. I was a huge fan of Ninja Tune's output back in the 90s but when I listen back to most of it now I feel there are very few gems that still seem anywhere near as good as they did to me back then. It's also partly just getting older I think, mad frantic beats etc generally annoy me now far more than they give me pleasure.
It will be the same thing with music, book, movies and any form of art.
Is ______________ really a genius?
Some people think Dostoyevsky is not a great novelist.
Some people don't like Rachmaninov.
Some people think Picasso is overrated.
Some people (including me) think that The Beatle are overrated.
Some people like wine, some people don't like wine.
If you see it, you see it. If you don't, you don't.
He was/is probably one of my favorite artists. Love the Chaos Theory he did for Splinter Cell video game, and Foley room is a gem, probably one of my favorite. He has a YouTube channel where sometimes he explains how he make stuff, what gear he uses etc. Worth checking out. Also there are great YouTube videos of he's live video/audio performance
I don’t know anything about Amon Tobi
I listened some parts of the video.
Seems like some forum users wants to show the capabilities of random modulator in Drambo without knowing what is doing
Pass for me
What is certain is, that he filled out a niche all of his own. Nobody else did it the way he did, until after he did it first. Of course it's easy to emulate his style - but it's hard being the original.
Some of his stuff, to my ears, sounds a bit too chaotic. Other numbers are amazing.
Niche is a good description, and not in any diminutive sense, just unique. I love the jazzness of his approach, some classic tunes and rarely (for me) I enjoyed his DJ sets at that place above/behind Angel station in Islington a few times. Didn’t change the world but opened some doors and a great artist for sure.
Totally agree! My main concern was about the term "genius", which is, at least somewhat, objectively defined as to someone having exceptional talent in some field, which I'm not sure about in this case. But I may well be wrong!
(I didn't know about Rachmaninov but I listened in briefly -- I definitely can connect to his music much better than to Tobin's. I can also discern more structure and complexity in it, but I may be biased. But in my personal opinion, creating something like Rachmaninov's stuff would require more "genius" than Tobin but again I'm totally biased and don't listen to me anyway!!! 😉)
Certainly it’s difficult to appreciate the impact of Rachmaninov out of the context of music of over a hundred years ago, as his work has been influential for many decades and created generations of composers using similar styles. The brash, harmonically complex music still rooted in the Russian orchestral music of his predecessors must have been eye-opening for listeners at the time. I’m sure his contemporaries considered calling him a genius, but perhaps the impact of his unique talents has been lost over time.
‘Genius’ is definitely very over-used and devalued in the 21st century, which is a shame as it takes the term away from the very small handful of artists who are truly exceptional.
Brilliant comment! I have worked with tons of 'artists' so why not? Everyone's a winner!
He's OK but he's no George Formby! 👻
Genius is Pain
Amon Tobin is 100% a genius. His sound design, understanding of sonic placement, and the way he talks about his process' all show how much he knows and what he puts into his tunes. I don't like all his releases, but go look at how he made Foley Room and then try and tell me I'm wrong.
When it comes to the music on the more chaotic side of IDM it can often be so 'angular' as to not be able to easily get a grip on what's going on. And I can understand why it initially gives the impression of being random. I'm not saying that randomisation isn't used at various points in the process. However, when it comes to the composition, arrangement and end result, there's often an incredible amount of intention, precision (in editing) and musicality.
You might find something like Trifonic's 'Emergence' or BT's 'This Binary Universe' to be more accessible. Despite often using similar tricked-out production, the result is more 'grounded'
This is a great mock video. And yes, that rolling/bouncing marbley-type sound is from Logic's 'Sculpture'
I couldn’t ever imagine him matching the genius of ‘When I’m Cleaning Windows’.
If I could, I would find Steins;Gate to go back in time and watch the ISAM tour again. That was absolutely my favorite concert ever, hands down. Everything about the experience: that specific music, the innovative use of projectors... just an incredible experience. You can watch it on YouTube, but it pale's in comparison to being in the room:
Also, he puts out a lot of different type of work. He's aka Cujo, Only Child Tyrant, Figueroa, Stone Giants, and of course Two Fingers. He's not a one trick pony. I think he's a genius for sure.
And you know what, there are a lot of genius level people in the world, its not like there hasn't been a genius since Mozart
There are people walking down the street that are a certified genius. Personally, I think we are too stingy with the word.
How does one define musical genius?
You mean "win-duhz", right?
Well, definitely not my cup of tea
Not impressed at all, Amon Tobin swims in completely different waters of music than me :-)
These days it seems like ‘genius’ is defined as a person’s favorite artist.
So the question is, is "exceptional skill" required to create the art that he makes? Next question is: what exactly is "exceptional"? Etc. -- "genius" is too subjective to be properly defined.
Well ‘exceptional’ implies only a small number of people, but that’s not the case with applying the word ‘genius’ anymore.
Defining ‘genius’ seems a bit pointless now that more musicians are apparently geniuses than not.
Sure, but I hear so much...and I want to tread lightly... "bad music" out there. Like there's just tons of it. The ratio of people that are putting out music that's quality is sub par compared to those that are putting out amazingly well produced and creative music is crazy. SOOOO many people put their music out there and, as hobbiest or people that are just figuring stuff out, or even people that have been working on it for years, but just don't have the talent...the streaming services are packed with these folks. I'm not saying that's bad, everybody should share their work and have their following, etc. But there are people that are head and shoulders above the masses. It takes a LOT of skill to be one of these. I'm talking millions to a few. There are millions of musicians out there putting "stuff" out, but when people are saying "we are handing out genius titles like they are candy", I see it as if there are 100 per million that are standing out, then that's 1 in 1000. Out of the 8 billion people on the earth to say 8 million individuals are better than a thousand different people, be it that they actually work on music at all is not relevant. They are choosing to do it while the others are not. Hell, make that 1 out of 10,000 and you still have 80,000 individuals that are "the best". I'd probably consider those people genius level because I'm one of those 10K that "know" when somebody is just way better than the rest.
I guess my point is: There are 8 billion people currently on the planet, not to mention those that have lived and then died. I don't think you can reserve "genius" level for 100 of them for all of history. It's just not true. Nor fair.
Sometimes, you need knowledge to see the magic.
Me in 1990 with 0 music knowledge: "Liam Howlett is not interesting at all".
Me in 2000 with a lot more of music knowledge: "Oh wow, Liam Howlett is insanely talented".
Bach is a perfect example. Anyone who understand fugue understand that he is a genius (I think).