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Slowly evolving FX…

I want to create effects patches that sweep very slowly. And randomly if possible.

I know there are many ways of accomplishing this, using mLFO, etc; but are there any effect plugins that already have built-in very slow LFOs? Extra points if the LFOs can follow a somewhat random waveform, and if they are muti-FX units. Turnado would be great, but it seems its LFOs have a minimum speed of 0.5hz.

Thanks for any info!

Comments

  • Maybe Mozaic is a good place to start, particularly if you want to integrate a level of randomness. There’s a learning curve for sure, but it will allow you to customize.

  • @Shabudua said:
    I want to create effects patches that sweep very slowly. And randomly if possible.

    I know there are many ways of accomplishing this, using mLFO, etc; but are there any effect plugins that already have built-in very slow LFOs? Extra points if the LFOs can follow a somewhat random waveform, and if they are muti-FX units. Turnado would be great, but it seems its LFOs have a minimum speed of 0.5hz.

    Thanks for any info!

    In general, I think it is better to just get used to using lfos for this, as so few apps have a decent built in lfo system with a good variety of waveform types and also useful features like lag / smoothing which will allow you to use sample and hold waveforms but with smooth instead of jumpy transitions.

    OR! Just start using apeMatrix as your host - it has an inbuilt modulation system that is EXCELLENT, has a variety of waveforms including the smoothed sample and hold referred to above, goes down to 0.0160 hz, allows you to easily adjust the lfo range and so on. The lfos are all hi-res: no stepping. In this regard, apeMatrix is far superior to AUM.

  • @Gavinski said:

    @Shabudua said:
    I want to create effects patches that sweep very slowly. And randomly if possible.

    I know there are many ways of accomplishing this, using mLFO, etc; but are there any effect plugins that already have built-in very slow LFOs? Extra points if the LFOs can follow a somewhat random waveform, and if they are muti-FX units. Turnado would be great, but it seems its LFOs have a minimum speed of 0.5hz.

    Thanks for any info!

    In general, I think it is better to just get used to using lfos for this, as so few apps have a decent built in lfo system with a good variety of waveform types and also useful features like lag / smoothing which will allow you to use sample and hold waveforms but with smooth instead of jumpy transitions.

    OR! Just start using apeMatrix as your host - it has an inbuilt modulation system that is EXCELLENT, has a variety of waveforms including the smoothed sample and hold referred to above, goes down to 0.0160 hz, allows you to easily adjust the lfo range and so on. The lfos are all hi-res: no stepping. In this regard, apeMatrix is far superior to AUM.

    And now I finally purchased Apematrix! 😂 I had no idea about its complex modulation system! Perfect for generative Ambient!

  • edited September 2023

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Shabudua said:
    I want to create effects patches that sweep very slowly. And randomly if possible.

    I know there are many ways of accomplishing this, using mLFO, etc; but are there any effect plugins that already have built-in very slow LFOs? Extra points if the LFOs can follow a somewhat random waveform, and if they are muti-FX units. Turnado would be great, but it seems its LFOs have a minimum speed of 0.5hz.

    Thanks for any info!

    In general, I think it is better to just get used to using lfos for this, as so few apps have a decent built in lfo system with a good variety of waveform types and also useful features like lag / smoothing which will allow you to use sample and hold waveforms but with smooth instead of jumpy transitions.

    OR! Just start using apeMatrix as your host - it has an inbuilt modulation system that is EXCELLENT, has a variety of waveforms including the smoothed sample and hold referred to above, goes down to 0.0160 hz, allows you to easily adjust the lfo range and so on. The lfos are all hi-res: no stepping. In this regard, apeMatrix is far superior to AUM.

    And now I finally purchased Apematrix! 😂 I had no idea about its complex modulation system! Perfect for generative Ambient!

    Yes! And all apeMatrix fx apps also feature the same built in modulation system. It has more than lfos - accelerometer can also be used. It’s worth reading at least 1 apesoft manual properly to understand how to use this. Once you know it for one, you know how to use it easily in all

  • @Gavinski said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Shabudua said:
    I want to create effects patches that sweep very slowly. And randomly if possible.

    I know there are many ways of accomplishing this, using mLFO, etc; but are there any effect plugins that already have built-in very slow LFOs? Extra points if the LFOs can follow a somewhat random waveform, and if they are muti-FX units. Turnado would be great, but it seems its LFOs have a minimum speed of 0.5hz.

    Thanks for any info!

    In general, I think it is better to just get used to using lfos for this, as so few apps have a decent built in lfo system with a good variety of waveform types and also useful features like lag / smoothing which will allow you to use sample and hold waveforms but with smooth instead of jumpy transitions.

    OR! Just start using apeMatrix as your host - it has an inbuilt modulation system that is EXCELLENT, has a variety of waveforms including the smoothed sample and hold referred to above, goes down to 0.0160 hz, allows you to easily adjust the lfo range and so on. The lfos are all hi-res: no stepping. In this regard, apeMatrix is far superior to AUM.

    And now I finally purchased Apematrix! 😂 I had no idea about its complex modulation system! Perfect for generative Ambient!

    Yes! And all apeMatrix fx apps also feature the same built in modulation system. It has more than lfos - accelerometer can also be used. And all apesoft apps have this modulation system built into them - it’s worth reading at least 1 apesoft manual properly to understand how to use this. Once you know it for one, you know how to use it easily in all

    NICE! Thanks for the tip mate. :) Gav you're a legend!

  • @Gavinski said:

    And all apeMatrix fx apps also feature the same built in modulation system.

    I must look into these! Also, I was misinformed about Turnado. Its LFOs have an additional “rate multiplier” setting that can make them much slower than the official 0.5hz.

  • For multi fx, slowly evolving etc you might want to take a look at the classic fx app by Igor Vasiliev. It's different from turnado, totally different, but worth a look and the sound quality of the modules is absolutely top notch, as always from Igor. I made a few vids on it.

  • I’m sure you can also do this kind of thing in Drambo.

  • As @Gavinski said, probably good to get used to using mLFO (or another) for this kind of thing. Bleass’s effects have a good modulation system but only goes down to 5-10 ms.

  • I found this patch helpful: https://patchstorage.com/chaos-lfo/

    Load this in Mozaic and chain with your modulator of choice, some interesting results with this one.

  • @Kewe_Esse said:
    I found this patch helpful: https://patchstorage.com/chaos-lfo/

    Load this in Mozaic and chain with your modulator of choice, some interesting results with this one.

    Looks very interesting, cheers! Mozaic patchstorage is such a treasure trove

  • @Gavinski said:

    @Kewe_Esse said:
    I found this patch helpful: https://patchstorage.com/chaos-lfo/

    Load this in Mozaic and chain with your modulator of choice, some interesting results with this one.

    Looks very interesting, cheers! Mozaic patchstorage is such a treasure trove

    Yeah, combine it with cyclop, can get quite close to being an alternative to thermo…

  • ApeMatrix is great! Great as a plugin playground whose output can be routed to AUM or elsewhere if necessary. Make sure you double tap on everything in the interface, because there are LFOs hidden places you might not suspect, and outwardly there’s no sign that they are there.

    What fun you will have.

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Shabudua said:
    I want to create effects patches that sweep very slowly. And randomly if possible.

    I know there are many ways of accomplishing this, using mLFO, etc; but are there any effect plugins that already have built-in very slow LFOs? Extra points if the LFOs can follow a somewhat random waveform, and if they are muti-FX units. Turnado would be great, but it seems its LFOs have a minimum speed of 0.5hz.

    Thanks for any info!

    In general, I think it is better to just get used to using lfos for this, as so few apps have a decent built in lfo system with a good variety of waveform types and also useful features like lag / smoothing which will allow you to use sample and hold waveforms but with smooth instead of jumpy transitions.

    OR! Just start using apeMatrix as your host - it has an inbuilt modulation system that is EXCELLENT, has a variety of waveforms including the smoothed sample and hold referred to above, goes down to 0.0160 hz, allows you to easily adjust the lfo range and so on. The lfos are all hi-res: no stepping. In this regard, apeMatrix is far superior to AUM.

    And now I finally purchased Apematrix! 😂 I had no idea about its complex modulation system! Perfect for generative Ambient!

  • @Gavinski said:

    @Shabudua said:
    I want to create effects patches that sweep very slowly. And randomly if possible.

    I know there are many ways of accomplishing this, using mLFO, etc; but are there any effect plugins that already have built-in very slow LFOs? Extra points if the LFOs can follow a somewhat random waveform, and if they are muti-FX units. Turnado would be great, but it seems its LFOs have a minimum speed of 0.5hz.

    Thanks for any info!

    In general, I think it is better to just get used to using lfos for this, as so few apps have a decent built in lfo system with a good variety of waveform types and also useful features like lag / smoothing which will allow you to use sample and hold waveforms but with smooth instead of jumpy transitions.

    OR! Just start using apeMatrix as your host - it has an inbuilt modulation system that is EXCELLENT, has a variety of waveforms including the smoothed sample and hold referred to above, goes down to 0.0160 hz, allows you to easily adjust the lfo range and so on. The lfos are all hi-res: no stepping. In this regard, apeMatrix is far superior to AUM.

    +1 for apeMatrix and it’s LFOs. Great for more complex effects routings that you can see all on one screen :)

  • @GUB said:
    ApeMatrix is great! Great as a plugin playground whose output can be routed to AUM or elsewhere if necessary. Make sure you double tap on everything in the interface, because there are LFOs hidden places you might not suspect, and outwardly there’s no sign that they are there.

    What fun you will have.

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @Shabudua said:
    I want to create effects patches that sweep very slowly. And randomly if possible.

    I know there are many ways of accomplishing this, using mLFO, etc; but are there any effect plugins that already have built-in very slow LFOs? Extra points if the LFOs can follow a somewhat random waveform, and if they are muti-FX units. Turnado would be great, but it seems its LFOs have a minimum speed of 0.5hz.

    Thanks for any info!

    In general, I think it is better to just get used to using lfos for this, as so few apps have a decent built in lfo system with a good variety of waveform types and also useful features like lag / smoothing which will allow you to use sample and hold waveforms but with smooth instead of jumpy transitions.

    OR! Just start using apeMatrix as your host - it has an inbuilt modulation system that is EXCELLENT, has a variety of waveforms including the smoothed sample and hold referred to above, goes down to 0.0160 hz, allows you to easily adjust the lfo range and so on. The lfos are all hi-res: no stepping. In this regard, apeMatrix is far superior to AUM.

    And now I finally purchased Apematrix! 😂 I had no idea about its complex modulation system! Perfect for generative Ambient!

    That sounds awesome! Thanks for the tips! ☺️

  • (I posted this youtube earlier in creations, so sorry for double post, don’t wanna spam by stuff)
    I second the recommend for Apematrix, is a pot of gold for lfo’s. In this track I added a synced LFO with a random waveform on Cascade’s output mix, so (in this case a resonance type of reverb) moves the synth slightly forth and back in its reverb. It’s just a breeze to set up. You can lfo almost everything in Ape by a simple click!

  • I just looked and drambo lfo go very low indeed, and have smooth s&h and random sine. You could also always self modulate them for more varability

  • @Shabudua said:

    @Gavinski said:

    And all apeMatrix fx apps also feature the same built in modulation system.

    I must look into these! Also, I was misinformed about Turnado. Its LFOs have an additional “rate multiplier” setting that can make them much slower than the official 0.5hz.

    You probably weren't misinformed because that feature (rate multiplier) came with the 1.5 update, so you probably read the old document.
     
    You started a good thread, because I would also like to know if there are any other multi-FX units with comprehensive modulation systems out there. 🤔

  • You can also use the Moogerfooger apps to modulate each other. In the video linked below the LFO from the delay on the right is modulating the filter cutoff of the filter on the left. The LFO can go to very slow speeds.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f4e5my57c2zgvd9xjpbdh/moog.MP4?rlkey=batidf4j6h33zrtlay0tgl3z5&dl=0

  • @richardyot said:
    You can also use the Moogerfooger apps to modulate each other. In the video linked below the LFO from the delay on the right is modulating the filter cutoff of the filter on the left. The LFO can go to very slow speeds.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f4e5my57c2zgvd9xjpbdh/moog.MP4?rlkey=batidf4j6h33zrtlay0tgl3z5&dl=0

    Can’t believe I didn’t think of these when I first responded to this thread. D’oh!

  • @michael_m said:

    @richardyot said:
    You can also use the Moogerfooger apps to modulate each other. In the video linked below the LFO from the delay on the right is modulating the filter cutoff of the filter on the left. The LFO can go to very slow speeds.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f4e5my57c2zgvd9xjpbdh/moog.MP4?rlkey=batidf4j6h33zrtlay0tgl3z5&dl=0

    Can’t believe I didn’t think of these when I first responded to this thread. D’oh!

    Yes but they're only really useful for modulating other moogerfooger apps using the inbuilt virtual CV feature so they're not a general solution really. And sure, all (I think) of the moogerfoogers come with inbuilt lfos, but in many cases there is no choice of waveform, no smoothing/lag for sample and hold etc, no offset, no ability to quickly set the max and min range etc. Only one of the apps, if I remember correctly, offers a decent number of lfo types, can't remember offhand which. But there's no advantage in using even it to modulate another moogerfooger over using a good dedicated lfo app modulating a moogerfooger via the virtual CV system.

    So in most cases, even if you do want to use a moogerfooger as an effect, and even if using the inbuilt cv system, you'll still be better off using a dedicated 3rd party lfo app to modulate that moogerfooger. You'll have a lot more control

    Tldr: the cv function in the moogerfooger apps is great but you're still better piping a regular lfo capable of slow speeds into it, like midilfos or mlfos, rather than using another moogerfooger app to modulate it

  • @Gavinski said:

    @michael_m said:

    @richardyot said:
    You can also use the Moogerfooger apps to modulate each other. In the video linked below the LFO from the delay on the right is modulating the filter cutoff of the filter on the left. The LFO can go to very slow speeds.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f4e5my57c2zgvd9xjpbdh/moog.MP4?rlkey=batidf4j6h33zrtlay0tgl3z5&dl=0

    Can’t believe I didn’t think of these when I first responded to this thread. D’oh!

    Yes but they're only really useful for modulating other moogerfooger apps using the inbuilt virtual CV feature so they're not a general solution really. And sure, all (I think) of the moogerfoogers come with inbuilt lfos, but in many cases there is no choice of waveform, no smoothing/lag for sample and hold etc, no offset, no ability to quickly set the max and min range etc. Only one of the apps, if I remember correctly, offers a decent number of lfo types, can't remember offhand which. But there's no advantage in using even it to modulate another moogerfooger over using a good dedicated lfo app modulating a moogerfooger via the virtual CV system.

    So in most cases, even if you do want to use a moogerfooger as an effect, and even if using the inbuilt cv system, you'll still be better off using a dedicated 3rd party lfo app to modulate that moogerfooger. You'll have a lot more control

    Tldr: the cv function in the moogerfooger apps is great but you're still better piping a regular lfo capable of slow speeds into it, like midilfos or mlfos, rather than using another moogerfooger app to modulate it

    I think I responded too quickly without really thinking here…

  • @michael_m said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @michael_m said:

    @richardyot said:
    You can also use the Moogerfooger apps to modulate each other. In the video linked below the LFO from the delay on the right is modulating the filter cutoff of the filter on the left. The LFO can go to very slow speeds.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f4e5my57c2zgvd9xjpbdh/moog.MP4?rlkey=batidf4j6h33zrtlay0tgl3z5&dl=0

    Can’t believe I didn’t think of these when I first responded to this thread. D’oh!

    Yes but they're only really useful for modulating other moogerfooger apps using the inbuilt virtual CV feature so they're not a general solution really. And sure, all (I think) of the moogerfoogers come with inbuilt lfos, but in many cases there is no choice of waveform, no smoothing/lag for sample and hold etc, no offset, no ability to quickly set the max and min range etc. Only one of the apps, if I remember correctly, offers a decent number of lfo types, can't remember offhand which. But there's no advantage in using even it to modulate another moogerfooger over using a good dedicated lfo app modulating a moogerfooger via the virtual CV system.

    So in most cases, even if you do want to use a moogerfooger as an effect, and even if using the inbuilt cv system, you'll still be better off using a dedicated 3rd party lfo app to modulate that moogerfooger. You'll have a lot more control

    Tldr: the cv function in the moogerfooger apps is great but you're still better piping a regular lfo capable of slow speeds into it, like midilfos or mlfos, rather than using another moogerfooger app to modulate it

    I think I responded too quickly without really thinking here…

    Hmm, let me consult Roger’s Profanisuarus, lol

  • @Gavinski said:

    @michael_m said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @michael_m said:

    @richardyot said:
    You can also use the Moogerfooger apps to modulate each other. In the video linked below the LFO from the delay on the right is modulating the filter cutoff of the filter on the left. The LFO can go to very slow speeds.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f4e5my57c2zgvd9xjpbdh/moog.MP4?rlkey=batidf4j6h33zrtlay0tgl3z5&dl=0

    Can’t believe I didn’t think of these when I first responded to this thread. D’oh!

    Yes but they're only really useful for modulating other moogerfooger apps using the inbuilt virtual CV feature so they're not a general solution really. And sure, all (I think) of the moogerfoogers come with inbuilt lfos, but in many cases there is no choice of waveform, no smoothing/lag for sample and hold etc, no offset, no ability to quickly set the max and min range etc. Only one of the apps, if I remember correctly, offers a decent number of lfo types, can't remember offhand which. But there's no advantage in using even it to modulate another moogerfooger over using a good dedicated lfo app modulating a moogerfooger via the virtual CV system.

    So in most cases, even if you do want to use a moogerfooger as an effect, and even if using the inbuilt cv system, you'll still be better off using a dedicated 3rd party lfo app to modulate that moogerfooger. You'll have a lot more control

    Tldr: the cv function in the moogerfooger apps is great but you're still better piping a regular lfo capable of slow speeds into it, like midilfos or mlfos, rather than using another moogerfooger app to modulate it

    I think I responded too quickly without really thinking here…

    Hmm, let me consult Roger’s Profanisuarus, lol

    :lol:

  • To some extent it depends on the host. In Logic for example, you can't assign a MIDI LFO to an effect on an audio channel (at least I don't think so), so for Logic users at least there is definitely a case to be made to the Moogerfooger solution.

    There may well be other hosts that are equally inflexible with MIDI routing, I only know Logic, Auria and Cubasis well enough to comment. Obviously hosts like AUM and Apematrix are much more flexible for this kind of thing, but they are a different breed of host.

  • @richardyot said:
    To some extent it depends on the host. In Logic for example, you can't assign a MIDI LFO to an effect on an audio channel (at least I don't think so), so for Logic users at least there is definitely a case to be made to the Moogerfooger solution.

    There may well be other hosts that are equally inflexible with MIDI routing, I only know Logic, Auria and Cubasis well enough to comment. Obviously hosts like AUM and Apematrix are much more flexible for this kind of thing, but they are a different breed of host.

    Ah, interesting to know. I'm too used to aum now, couldn't forego this flexibility easily, but I'm sure people who are used to DAWs with good inbuilt automation would equally be frustrated by the lack of that in aum.

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