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Mozaic (as destination for external MIDI) crashes in Loopy Pro

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Comments

  • brambosbrambos
    edited October 2023

    @uncledave said:
    Could this SysEx message be related to LP's built-in support for certain controllers? Does LP send a query ("who are you") message to the LPK25, triggering its reply? And maybe LP is wrongly forwarding this internal message to Mozaic.

    Ah, that's an interesting hypothesis. Although Mozaic should just absorb any sysex sent to it without issues.
    But could there be some infinite loop or something?

    Does the same setup work in AUM or does it crash there as well (same script, same controller, etc.)?

    Edit: I'm looking at my Sysex handling code. I see nothing in there that should be causing a crash with these messages. Very strange.

  • filo01filo01
    edited October 2023

    @brambos said:

    @uncledave said:
    Could this SysEx message be related to LP's built-in support for certain controllers? Does LP send a query ("who are you") message to the LPK25, triggering its reply? And maybe LP is wrongly forwarding this internal message to Mozaic.

    Ah, that's an interesting hypothesis. Although Mozaic should just absorb any sysex sent to it without issues.
    But could there be some infinite loop or something?

    Does the same setup work in AUM or does it crash there as well (same script, same controller, etc.)?

    Edit: I'm looking at my Sysex handling code. I see nothing in there that should be causing a crash with these messages. Very strange.

    I have nothing else to test but the Loopy Pro. Maybe @sfm could help? I know he has AKAI LPK25 as well.

  • filo01filo01
    edited October 2023

    @uncledave said:
    Could this SysEx message be related to LP's built-in support for certain controllers? Does LP send a query ("who are you") message to the LPK25, triggering its reply? And maybe LP is wrongly forwarding this internal message to Mozaic.

    I tried something. I launched LP with empty project so there's no MIDI source, just the internal microphone.. MIDI Sniffer logged identical SysEx messages from AKAI LPK25 as in the log file above.

  • espiegel123espiegel123
    edited October 2023

    @filo01 said:

    @uncledave said:
    Could this SysEx message be related to LP's built-in support for certain controllers? Does LP send a query ("who are you") message to the LPK25, triggering its reply? And maybe LP is wrongly forwarding this internal message to Mozaic.

    I tried something. I launched LP with empty project so there's no MIDI source, just the internal microphone.. MIDI Sniffer logged identical SysEx messages from AKAI LPK25 as in the log file above.

    UncleDave’s speculation would be consistent with this…loopy might be querying devices to see if they are supported controllers for automatic binding.

    …which leaves the question of why Mozaic crashes when it receives the Akai response (even if it should not be receiving it)

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @brambos : it looks like Mozaic can be crashed by sending invalid/incomplete sysex…even if the script does have any midi handling.

    If I use loopy’s send midi message and send “F0 12 23” without the closing F7, Mozaic sometimes crashes. I wonder if this might be connected.

  • wimwim

    It might be important to note that we don't know exactly what Mozaic is receiving. We only know that blocking sysex stops the crash. The captured sysex came from the LPK to a midi monitor outside of Loopy. There could be different message exchanges happening in Loopy.

    @filo01 - out of curiosity, if you to go Control Settings and then tap on the MIDI Device and check Device Type, is it listed as Generic Device? If not, maybe try changing it to that.

  • brambosbrambos

    @espiegel123 said:
    @brambos : it looks like Mozaic can be crashed by sending invalid/incomplete sysex…even if the script does have any midi handling.

    If I use loopy’s send midi message and send “F0 12 23” without the closing F7, Mozaic sometimes crashes. I wonder if this might be connected.

    Interesting. It should be able to handle that, unless the reported message size is also incorrect/corrupted. In that case something may go wrong perhaps? I’ll double-check.

  • wimwim

    @brambos said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @brambos : it looks like Mozaic can be crashed by sending invalid/incomplete sysex…even if the script does have any midi handling.

    If I use loopy’s send midi message and send “F0 12 23” without the closing F7, Mozaic sometimes crashes. I wonder if this might be connected.

    Interesting. It should be able to handle that, unless the reported message size is also incorrect/corrupted. In that case something may go wrong perhaps? I’ll double-check.

    That's what I was originally guessing - that sysex is coming in while Mozaic isn't fully initialized, so it's only partially received. If so I wonder if it's Loopy acting up or Mozaic.

  • brambosbrambos
    edited October 2023

    @wim said:

    @brambos said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @brambos : it looks like Mozaic can be crashed by sending invalid/incomplete sysex…even if the script does have any midi handling.

    If I use loopy’s send midi message and send “F0 12 23” without the closing F7, Mozaic sometimes crashes. I wonder if this might be connected.

    Interesting. It should be able to handle that, unless the reported message size is also incorrect/corrupted. In that case something may go wrong perhaps? I’ll double-check.

    That's what I was originally guessing - that sysex is coming in while Mozaic isn't fully initialized, so it's only partially received. If so I wonder if it's Loopy acting up or Mozaic.

    If Mozaic can receive something, it will receive the whole thing. I'm very certain of that, because Sysex messages are always transmitted integrally by CoreAudio.

    But by the sound of it, Mozaic is actually not supposed to receive this message in the first place, if this is part of a query-response dialog between LP and the LPK.

    @Michael, could this Sysex message be something that is requested from the AKAI by Loopy Pro upon startup?

  • filo01filo01

    @wim said:
    @filo01 - out of curiosity, if you to go Control Settings and then tap on the MIDI Device and check Device Type, is it listed as Generic Device?

    Yes, it is.

  • filo01filo01
    edited October 2023

    OK, I did another test with LP. I put MIDI Monitor app (from MIDI tools bundle) between MIDI source (LPK25) and Mozaic. And Mozaic NOT crashed.
    EDIT: It looks like any MIDI app I put between LPK25 MIDI source and Mozaic fix the issue.

  • wimwim

    My guess is that the initialization order is giving Mozaic enough time to be completely ready before it receives anything.

  • brambosbrambos

    @filo01 @wim

    I have updated Mozaic to better handle malformed/garbage SysEx messages. Please check if this solves the crashing. It does no longer crash if I use LP's Send MIDI feature to send nonsense messages.

    But even if it does solve the issue (which would be great), it's still a mystery where they come from and why they reach Mozaic in a garbled state :|

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Michael ?

  • MichaelMichael
    edited November 2023

    @brambos @wim @espiegel123 My apologies for the radio silence on this - I'm a bit behind on my messages, dealing with some family stuff which has taken all my attention.

    Your hypotheses are totally right - LP does a universal device identification exchange with MIDI hardware, to determine if it's a device that is supported for automatic bindings/lighting/etc.

    That involves sending a SysEx message to the hardware, and waiting for a reply from it. LP doesn't prevent that reply from also going to any MIDI destinations, which is why Mozaic/etc is seeing it too. I'm open to adding a measure to intercept that message, but it shouldn't really impact anything.

    Here's an example reply from my AKAI APC40mk2:

    Incoming bytes (packet 1 of 2): f0 7e 0 6 2 47 29 0 19   
Incoming bytes (packet 2 of 2): 0 1 0 1 0 7f 7f 7f 7f 41 31 32 30 31 30 31 35 37  
Passed on to AUv3: f0 7e 0 6 2 47 29 0 19  
Passed on to AUv3: 0 1 0 1 0 7f 7f 7f 7f 41 31 32 30 31 30 31 35 37  
Incoming bytes (packet 1 of 2): 31 36 30 30 37 33 0  
Incoming bytes (packet 2 of 2): f7  
Passed on to AUv3: 31 36 30 30 37 33 0  
Passed on to AUv3: f7

    @brambos, is there a chance Mozaic's Sysex handling doesn't span multiple messages? LP will send any MIDI it gets straight on to AUv3s without waiting to combine multiple messages into one, so it could be that if Mozaic's just using the first message of the exchange and not waiting for the final "f7", then it could be getting mixed up.

  • brambosbrambos

    @Michael said:
    @brambos @wim @espiegel123 My apologies for the radio silence on this - I'm a bit behind on my messages, dealing with some family stuff which has taken all my attention.

    Your hypotheses are totally right - LP does a universal device identification exchange with MIDI hardware, to determine if it's a device that is supported for automatic bindings/lighting/etc.

    That involves sending a SysEx message to the hardware, and waiting for a reply from it. LP doesn't prevent that reply from also going to any MIDI destinations, which is why Mozaic/etc is seeing it too. I'm open to adding a measure to intercept that message, but it shouldn't really impact anything.

    Here's an example reply from my AKAI APC40mk2:

    Incoming bytes (packet 1 of 2): f0 7e 0 6 2 47 29 0 19   
Incoming bytes (packet 2 of 2): 0 1 0 1 0 7f 7f 7f 7f 41 31 32 30 31 30 31 35 37  
Passed on to AUv3: f0 7e 0 6 2 47 29 0 19  
Passed on to AUv3: 0 1 0 1 0 7f 7f 7f 7f 41 31 32 30 31 30 31 35 37  
Incoming bytes (packet 1 of 2): 31 36 30 30 37 33 0  
Incoming bytes (packet 2 of 2): f7  
Passed on to AUv3: 31 36 30 30 37 33 0  
Passed on to AUv3: f7

    @brambos, is there a chance Mozaic's Sysex handling doesn't span multiple messages? LP will send any MIDI it gets straight on to AUv3s without waiting to combine multiple messages into one, so it could be that if Mozaic's just using the first message of the exchange and not waiting for the final "f7", then it could be getting mixed up.

    You mean split over multiple subsequent render calls? No that’s not supported and not exactly easy to implement either. When a sysex event comes in it needs to be handled at that moment so the message needs to be complete.

    I support multiple messages bunched in the same call. So if all those packets are sent within the same AUEventList (I think CoreAudio manages that for the host) it should work.

    At least in the new Mozaic version it should no longer crash the plugin when receiving incomplete messages. It will just makes SysEx handling scripts a bit more tricky.

  • MichaelMichael

    Hmm, okay. That'll be it then. The hardware is sending the incoming MIDI over multiple separate messages, so unless I add some stuff to combine it in LP, the AUv3's gonna get whatever's coming from the hardware.

  • brambosbrambos

    @Michael said:
    Hmm, okay. That'll be it then. The hardware is sending the incoming MIDI over multiple separate messages, so unless I add some stuff to combine it in LP, the AUv3's gonna get whatever's coming from the hardware.

    Yeah.. don’t worry about it. The problem was the crashing, which should hopefully be solved now :)

  • MichaelMichael

    @brambos said:

    @Michael said:
    Hmm, okay. That'll be it then. The hardware is sending the incoming MIDI over multiple separate messages, so unless I add some stuff to combine it in LP, the AUv3's gonna get whatever's coming from the hardware.

    Yeah.. don’t worry about it. The problem was the crashing, which should hopefully be solved now :)

    Wonderful!

  • filo01filo01

    @brambos said:

    @Michael said:
    Hmm, okay. That'll be it then. The hardware is sending the incoming MIDI over multiple separate messages, so unless I add some stuff to combine it in LP, the AUv3's gonna get whatever's coming from the hardware.

    Yeah.. don’t worry about it. The problem was the crashing, which should hopefully be solved now :)

    Hi, I can confirm that Mozaic 1.3.15 works without crashing. Thank you!

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