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Comments
Yeah the bundling thing has interesting possibilities. The main issue there is that new customers might look at the options for an app (v1 or v2 or bundle) and think that the more expensive bundle is better than just getting v2. After buying the bundle they'd realize that v2 includes everything from v1 and be bummed that they bought the bundle. So it'd be better to put v1 into maintenance mode and not really promote it like that.
@syrupcore Yes to 'designed for IAPs from the start'. It does restrict the kinds of IAPs you can sell though, to a set of things that can be sectioned off into ever-expanding lists. So the rest of the app has to either be static or pre-paid for updates (as is the case with Auria, Gadget etc). Also agreed that the "new version as new app" model can't really coexist with IAPs (or subscription for that matter) - gotta do one or the other.
IMO upgrade pricing via introductory discounted price works pretty well. Launch at 50-70% off for 2-3 weeks so all your existing users can upgrade. Then push it up to standard price. Do you guys feel this is insufficient?
Very interesting conversation,
I Like the vibe
No vibes, only guitars...
@rhism said:
I think it's great as a consumer but think it sorta sucks for developers. At the very moment you are most likely to get the most press you need to deeply devalue your work in order to deal with Apple's lack of upgrade path.
The bundle thing is indeed interesting. Hadn't thought of that. It also seems to work to ensure that people who previously got a discount don't get to double dip!
No guitars, only strings... (sorry, music x programming joke!)
Conclusions so far from this very informative thread:
1) Subscriptions probably don't work. The poll results were more positive than I expected, but the qualitative feedback on the thread adds enough color to the numbers to illustrate the real picture. Many subscribers would unsubscribe once they're done with the app, which means the standard paid app model would probably bring in more revenue, and make users more happy too.
2) Major new versions as new apps might be a good idea. Annual might be about right (though many will upgrade less frequently, just like we do with iDevices). Basic support for older versions is expected i.e. keeping up with iOS compatibility.
3) Having multiple different apps is even better than updating a single app annually (for users and devs). The incremental value created in a new app is usually more than in a major update to an existing app.
Time to work on lead guitarism...
good conclusions I think.
Another major advantage of seperate apps is, of course, that you are much more free to design something really new, not being tied down to the original app's GUI and structure....
Yep. Mandolism, for example.
Something to bear in mind is the useful iOS update range of a given iDevice. I have an iPod gen 4 that started out on iOS 5, got as far as iOS 6, then couldn't go any further. My iPad 2 started on iOS 5 and could go on to iOS 8, but I suspect it would struggle, so I'm freezing it on iOS 7. At any given point in time, there are iDevices getting left behind by Apple's development cycle. Any app that is updated to accomodate a new iOS version should ideally maintain support for the previous 2 major iOS versions to allow users with older iOS versions to update the app or even purchase it for the first time. Otherwise, you're just losing customers before you need to. This also makes a case for not jumping to use new iOS features the moment they become available, as a large number of potential customers won't benefit from those features and you may lose potential sales.
Organism!
I've been in software dev pretty much my entire life and have over 500 iOS apps I maintain and update and probably have discarded another 1000 or more. Probably ~50% I paid for. IIRC I've spent over $1500 on apps. I probably use ~50 regularly and another 200 or so occasionally. I live with my iPad, take it everywhere I go, use it as my phone via google voice, and still have the legacy unlimited AT&T data plan. I play guitar and use my iPad as my primary amp. I have an old iPad 1 (bought the week it was released) as a backup, my wife has a 3 and I use a 4 now. I would absolutely go with 3 in the OP and would use that model if I was a IOS app dev, primarily based on my dislike of IAPs.
EDITED TO ADD: I voted I'd think about the subscription, but now that I've though about it I am in the no camp. See the 500 or so apps I mentioned above. Now if was more like support, added extra value, and you didn't lose the base features of the app without it it would be much more interesting.
My main concern with 3 is that you will end up supporting more and more versions of the same app if you release too many new/upgraded apps and if you don't do them often enough your revenue stream will suffer. Hard thing to balance. Don't have iOS dev experience so I can't judge if the overhead on supporting all the version would be higher than adding and maintaining the supporting code for the IAPs.
A demo app with a single IAP for everything else is OK with me, but I tend to stay away from apps with a bunch of IAPs, i.e. I have no problem paying for a demo app if the demo features are worth the price, and the price is low enough, say $5 or less. Obviously difference in apps make some easy to create demos for, AmpKit, JamUP, ToneStack, for example, while others are much more difficult to create a reasonable demo for without a time limits, etc. I've seen a bunch of good demos on OS X and WinDoze that work forever, but only run for limited times, 10, 20 minutes or so.
I have (bought for$.99?) Guitarism, but all the IAPs turned me off (see RANT for an example) so its not on my iPad. I use the iFretless apps and had no problems paying higher prices for each with no IAPs, but to be honest, their unique method of play and the midi output was probably more important to me at the time.
Having a reasonable "buy everything" IAP like ToneStack really helps for me. I've bought many unique "special" apps like Auria, Korg apps, and Moog apps for example even though they have tons of IAPs so I really can't say I will not buy something with IAPs, but it certainly goes into the decision process.
My personal opinion is the primary reason so many good apps fail is that they have total crap documentation and demo/tutorial vids (not even going to get into web sites). Roll-over tool tips is not a substitution for good documentation and neither are screenshots with the bubble equivalent of tool tips. I strongly believe that iOS Apps are typically easier to use than legacy OS apps, but they still need decent documentation of some example workflows and internal behaviors.
EDIT: I got a deal from AmpKit today that resolved this, the following RANT in no longer valid.
RANT ON
How to really piss off people with IAPs:
My favorite amp sim has been AmpKit, I love the UI and its the first amp sim I got the clean Jazz sound I was looking for with. I bought several packs (some on sale, some not, about $35+ worth IIRC) and for a while I thought I was happy. Then new stuff was added and new packs were created that are half new stuff and half old stuff I already had; now they want me to pay twice for things? This pissed me off a bit last year. Then ToneStack came out with its everything bundle and AmpKit matched it while screwing their old customers. I could pay another $39 for everything I didn't have, about the same price I'd pay buying the little I didn't already have individually. While new buyers got everything for that price, a very loyal older buyer was screwed; I needed to pay twice that for everything. Just to make sure that I know I am being screwed AmpKit has been sending out in app notifications every few days to remind me that I am screwed. I bought toneStack and its everything package. I have also gotten tired of the Amp sims/effects in Logic Pro X and was thinking of adding AmpKit on OS X, now I am waiting to check out JamUp/Bias or ToneStack when their OS X versions are released. Love the sound of JamUp, don't like the UI, still working on getting comfortable with ToneStack.
Now I do really love AmpKit, and it is an awesome deal for the price, but I play to relax and going into the app is no longer relaxing. I really do want to support the devs, but I don't want to feel screwed in the process. To me this is a great example of how you can use IAPs to really piss off your customer base, even when they love you.
RANT OFF
A lot of people may disagree but I like the Intua bm1 bm2 bm3 model. I have no problem paying for a new version when the jump in features and functionality is big enough. Another benefit to the separate paid versions model is you can then run multiple instances of app. I am surprised more developers don't do this anyway to generate additional income, especially fx apps would benefit from running multiple instances
That multiple instances thing is a very interesting notion, having separate variations of the same app for the sole reason of multiple parallel use. I bet Apple would take some convincing to let something like that through (assuming it was an intentional simultaneous-basically-identical app release), but it is a cool idea. The bundles make something like that totally doable from a pricing perspective too.
The multiple instances thing is already being used but only by one developer I know of http://fiedler-audio.com/products/ad-480/
@RedSkyLullaby said:
I didn't get what you meant, but then I saw:
That's really really interesting. I'd love that for the aufx and holderness apps. Sometimes, a fella just wants two different instances of one app!
@syrupcore said:
One of the main reasons I'm making separate iPhone versions of my effects.
^^ THIS IS A GOOD DAY.
@Rhism said:
Not being a guitar player I cannot speak to the new guitar app issue (unless we're talking about guitar synths like iFretless), but what synth features are still missing from the iOS inventory?
This was alluded to in a recent thread - I and a few others felt that they would be happy to pay something for good updates - which I believe adds value to the iOS music arena as a whole... people pay for an honest update and they will appreciate what they have to a larger degree. I would, anyway.
$1/yr?!? I dare say I would be willing to pay considerably more for good updates to the apps I use! For each dev team!
Maybe coin packs, it seems to work for the game addicts, I'm sure there are quite a few music addicts here... 10,000 play coins for $50.
10,000 notes for $50? Interesting. "Too many notes, just take some out."
Of course, it may also make dream theater concerts shorter, so everyone wins! ;-)
Good news and potentially bad news. Hopefully, the bad news will be short lived.
Potentially bad news first:
The next version of Guitarism has been submitted to Apple and requires iOS 8.
Good news:
No more IAPs. All IAPs will be included in the app and existing users will be auto-upgraded.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=893211087357136&id=182315815113337
I'm pretty sure you won't be seeing Guitarism at the current price any time soon, if ever, after the update.
Actually the iOS8-only update is already out - that was v3.25, and it was mainly focused on making Guitarism work on iOS8 and with AB2.
v3.30 is the one that removes IAPs. And yes, the price of the app will go up from $1 to $5 when that update comes out, possibly higher after that (will experiment).
So if you have the app and were thinking of buying any of the IAPs - don't
And if you don't have the app but were thinking about it - get it soon