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Good news hopefully? Sideloading coming to ios in 2024

BruquesBruques
in General App Discussion

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/13/eu-iphone-app-sideloading-coming-2024/

"iPhone users in the EU next year will be able to download apps hosted outside of Apple's official App Store to comply with European regulations"

Comments

  • hghonhghon
    edited November 2023

    I hope it doesn’t lead to cracked apps and the like, while I understand that sideloading can be very useful, in the event apps can be cracked and loaded easily, this would gravely impact developers and their income.

    Edit: keep in mind I don’t know much about app coding, I just remember how easy it was to find cracked APKs on android

  • BruquesBruques
    edited November 2023

    @hghon said:
    I hope it doesn’t lead to cracked apps and the like, while I understand that sideloading can be very useful, in the event apps can be cracked and loaded easily, this would gravely impact developers and their income.

    Edit: keep in mind I don’t know much about app coding, I just remember how easy it was to find cracked APKs on android

    counter perspective, being forced to give 30% of your app cost to apple always gravely impacted developers income
    (correction, see below, 15%)

  • israeliteisraelite

    @Bruques said:

    @hghon said:
    I hope it doesn’t lead to cracked apps and the like, while I understand that sideloading can be very useful, in the event apps can be cracked and loaded easily, this would gravely impact developers and their income.

    Edit: keep in mind I don’t know much about app coding, I just remember how easy it was to find cracked APKs on android

    counter perspective, being forced to give 30% of your app cost to apple always gravely impacted developers income

    +1. Would be more than happy to support the devs by buying their apps directly from them. And piracy... It's a matter of personal choice and ones morality. Ever heard about jailbreaking an iOS device?

  • BruquesBruques

    @Bruques said:

    @hghon said:
    I hope it doesn’t lead to cracked apps and the like, while I understand that sideloading can be very useful, in the event apps can be cracked and loaded easily, this would gravely impact developers and their income.

    Edit: keep in mind I don’t know much about app coding, I just remember how easy it was to find cracked APKs on android

    counter perspective, being forced to give 30% of your app cost to apple always gravely impacted developers income

    (EDIT, also, remember that EU study that showed that piracy of various media did not hurt sales? https://gizmodo.com/the-eu-suppressed-a-300-page-study-that-found-piracy-do-1818629537 ,, albeit that's not a study of software per se, but various digital media, it likely extrapolates)

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @Bruques said:

    @hghon said:
    I hope it doesn’t lead to cracked apps and the like, while I understand that sideloading can be very useful, in the event apps can be cracked and loaded easily, this would gravely impact developers and their income.

    Edit: keep in mind I don’t know much about app coding, I just remember how easy it was to find cracked APKs on android

    counter perspective, being forced to give 30% of your app cost to apple always gravely impacted developers income

    Has been 15% for quite some time now, and it's really very cheap for the administrative overhead that Apple gets you rid of (which would frankly be impossible to handle for any sole developer).

  • BruquesBruques

    @SevenSystems said:

    @Bruques said:

    @hghon said:
    I hope it doesn’t lead to cracked apps and the like, while I understand that sideloading can be very useful, in the event apps can be cracked and loaded easily, this would gravely impact developers and their income.

    Edit: keep in mind I don’t know much about app coding, I just remember how easy it was to find cracked APKs on android

    counter perspective, being forced to give 30% of your app cost to apple always gravely impacted developers income

    Has been 15% for quite some time now, and it's really very cheap for the administrative overhead that Apple gets you rid of (which would frankly be impossible to handle for any sole developer).

    Thanks for the correction

  • DarkstringDarkstring

    I'd be more worried about the lack of checks for exploits and the like. I'd prefer using the apple store but giving a larger cut to the developers.

  • BruquesBruques

    One thing it may do is make feasible FOSS software for iOS that the store license previously made impossible.

  • CarnbotCarnbot

    I look forward to that, "sideloading" being just a sinister rebranding of the term "installing" to make it sound bad, is quite amusing though. This feature is one the reasons why the Raspberry pi is such a useful mobile computer, so I think it will enable a lot of potential for these devices with different types of open source software which cannot exist on the appstore.

  • reezyglereezygle

    @Bruques said:
    One thing it may do is make feasible FOSS software for iOS that the store license previously made impossible.

    I didn’t know there is such a restriction.

    As far as I know AudioKit’s Synth One is open-source.

  • hghonhghon

    @Bruques said:

    @hghon said:
    I hope it doesn’t lead to cracked apps and the like, while I understand that sideloading can be very useful, in the event apps can be cracked and loaded easily, this would gravely impact developers and their income.

    Edit: keep in mind I don’t know much about app coding, I just remember how easy it was to find cracked APKs on android

    counter perspective, being forced to give 30% of your app cost to apple always gravely impacted developers income
    (correction, see below, 15%)

    Good point 👍 agree with you there

  • BruquesBruques

    @Darkstring said:
    I'd be more worried about the lack of checks for exploits and the like. I'd prefer using the apple store but giving a larger cut to the developers.

    I'd quite like both. Nicer cut for devs is ideal. Existing outside of the app store works fine too in that I don't currently find that to be a problem on MacOS

    @reezygle said:

    @Bruques said:
    One thing it may do is make feasible FOSS software for iOS that the store license previously made impossible.

    I didn’t know there is such a restriction.

    As far as I know AudioKit’s Synth One is open-source.

    I should have been more specific. Not all FOSS, EG: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/459833/which-open-source-licenses-are-compatible-with-the-apples-iphone-and-its-offici

  • CarnbotCarnbot

    I would think also it's great for testing out being a developer, you could compile and try out your own software without needing to purchase a developer license (which I think is terrible, you should only need to do that when you want to sell on the store, not learn to do it).

  • FordTimeLordFordTimeLord

    @Carnbot said:
    I would think also it's great for testing out being a developer, you could compile and try out your own software without needing to purchase a developer license (which I think is terrible, you should only need to do that when you want to sell on the store, not learn to do it).

    I think you can already do that with a standard Apple account. There’s a 3 app limit but you can side load your own apps onto the device. People take advantage of it to run retro game emulators on their phones. That said it’s a massive faff to do

  • realdaweirealdawei

    ilok will enter the conversation.

    ‘Twas a good run

  • BruquesBruques

    @Carnbot said:
    I would think also it's great for testing out being a developer, you could compile and try out your own software without needing to purchase a developer license (which I think is terrible, you should only need to do that when you want to sell on the store, not learn to do it).

    That would be great but I wonder. On MacOS, with an unrecognized cert to particular software you have to do some sudo codesign and xattr command jiggery to get through MacOS security, so even with now being allowed to install things on ios or ipados, without jailbreak there'd still be no command line powers and thus some heavy restrictions I imagine?

  • CarnbotCarnbot

    @FordTimeLord said:to do it).

    I think you can already do that with a standard Apple account. There’s a 3 app limit but you can side load your own apps onto the device. People take advantage of it to run retro game emulators on their phones. That said it’s a massive faff to do

    That's interesting I didn't know that.

    @Bruques said:

    That would be great but I wonder. On MacOS, with an unrecognized cert to particular software you have to do some sudo codesign and xattr command jiggery to get through MacOS security, so even with now being allowed to install things on ios or ipados, without jailbreak there'd still be no command line powers and thus some heavy restrictions I imagine?

    Right ok, I haven't tried to do it yet because of all the hoop jumping, but I'm hoping there's less barriers in the future and potentially this could help, we'll see.

  • wimwim
    edited November 2023

    @reezygle said:

    @Bruques said:
    One thing it may do is make feasible FOSS software for iOS that the store license previously made impossible.

    I didn’t know there is such a restriction.

    As far as I know AudioKit’s Synth One is open-source.

    It's not a restriction against Open Source software per-se. Certain somewhat restricted license types such as GPL aren't allowed. It's not quite as cut and dried as that, but it does represent a problem.

    (Case in point - the developer of VCV rack changed v2 to GPL licensing because they didn't like that miRack came out with an iOS version, effectively restricting miRack to the v1 BSD licensed code base. Both open source. Only one compatible with the App Store. On the other hand, Paul X Stretch was made possible because the original developers were gracious enough to grant some sort of provision to make publishing on the App Store possible.)

  • mojozartmojozart

    I would sideload a browser that supported Web MIDI

    https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107250

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Bruques said:

    @hghon said:
    I hope it doesn’t lead to cracked apps and the like, while I understand that sideloading can be very useful, in the event apps can be cracked and loaded easily, this would gravely impact developers and their income.

    Edit: keep in mind I don’t know much about app coding, I just remember how easy it was to find cracked APKs on android

    counter perspective, being forced to give 30% of your app cost to apple always gravely impacted developers income
    (correction, see below, 15%)

    Apple’s cut does not “gravely” impact developers. For many , the solid payment infrastructure and discoverability is a benefit.

    There are downsides to the App Store model but Apple’s cut bothers deep pocket giant developers more than indies.

  • wimwim
    edited November 2023

    @Carnbot said:
    I would think also it's great for testing out being a developer, you could compile and try out your own software without needing to purchase a developer license (which I think is terrible, you should only need to do that when you want to sell on the store, not learn to do it).

    You can do that today without paying anything. You just can't distribute it to anyone else to spread the Beta Test joy / misery.

  • israeliteisraelite

    @espiegel123 said:

    @Bruques said:

    @hghon said:
    I hope it doesn’t lead to cracked apps and the like, while I understand that sideloading can be very useful, in the event apps can be cracked and loaded easily, this would gravely impact developers and their income.

    Edit: keep in mind I don’t know much about app coding, I just remember how easy it was to find cracked APKs on android

    counter perspective, being forced to give 30% of your app cost to apple always gravely impacted developers income
    (correction, see below, 15%)

    Apple’s cut does not “gravely” impact developers. For many , the solid payment infrastructure and discoverability is a benefit.

    There are downsides to the App Store model but Apple’s cut bothers deep pocket giant developers more than indies.

    The best discoverability for music apps is to post them to audiob.us forum :lol:

  • CarnbotCarnbot
    edited November 2023

    @wim said:

    @Carnbot said:
    I would think also it's great for testing out being a developer, you could compile and try out your own software without needing to purchase a developer license (which I think is terrible, you should only need to do that when you want to sell on the store, not learn to do it).

    You can do that today without paying anything. You just can't distribute it to anyone else to spread the Beta Test joy / misery.

    Right, yes. I recall now I did test out my hackintosh by loading an app on my ipad from xcode to see if that worked and it did.
    So I put that under a future possibility project where at least I don't need a mac. Not sure if it's changed but I also read that you have to reinstall your app every week to get a new certificate....that's annoying if still true.

  • wimwim
    edited November 2023

    @Carnbot said:

    @wim said:

    @Carnbot said:
    I would think also it's great for testing out being a developer, you could compile and try out your own software without needing to purchase a developer license (which I think is terrible, you should only need to do that when you want to sell on the store, not learn to do it).

    You can do that today without paying anything. You just can't distribute it to anyone else to spread the Beta Test joy / misery.

    Right, yes. I recall now I did test out my hackintosh by loading an app on my ipad from xcode to see if that worked and it did.
    So I put that under a future possibility project where at least I don't need a mac. Not sure if it's changed but I also read that you have to reinstall your app every week to get a new certificate....that's annoying if still true.

    No I don't think that's the case. I don't remember ever having to do that.
    I could be wrong though. It's been awhile.

  • CarnbotCarnbot

    Will be interesting to see how the "highly controlled system" will work though because Apple are going to do everything they can to comply with the law, whilst being as restrictive as possible. The article also states that the US is also considering a sideloading bill, so it will eventually become global most likely.

  • wimwim

    @Carnbot said:
    Will be interesting to see how the "highly controlled system" will work though because Apple are going to do everything they can to comply with the law, whilst being as restrictive as possible. The article also states that the US is also considering a sideloading bill, so it will eventually become global most likely.

    I would think that Apple would not make such a core OS change region specific. I expect when it comes it won't be restricted to just EU countries. That would be difficult to pull off.

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