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How do you route LFO signals to Lines?

GUBGUB
in General App Discussion

This is something I've not encountered before. Audiothing Lines: I can control it with the LFOs that are native to ApeMatrix, but I don't know how to use third party LFOs with it, because I can't find the midi inputs in the DAW, nor any settings on the app itself...

Comments

  • GavinskiGavinski

    Hmm, I’m using AUM, strange, AUv3 parameters are all exposed as normal, there shouldn’t be any problem

  • GavinskiGavinski

    I just tried in apeMatrix and was able to send midi from the midiLFOs app to a knob in Lines no problem

  • GUBGUB
    edited November 2023

    Thanks for checking.

    Quite right, it is working in both APE and AUM. I was thrown, because it doesn't show up in the midi matrix in either app, which I thought was necessary to send data between LFO data and its destination. Noinput mixer won't work unless connected thru the matrix in addition to being mapped w/ numbers.

    I still am sort of fumbling around in the dark re how midi works, apparently. What are those lanes in the matrices supposed to represent, anyway? Ports? I dunno.

    But I appreciate the confirmation, boss.

  • wimwim

    @GUB said:
    Thanks for checking.

    Quite right, it is working in both APE and AUM. I was thrown, because it doesn't show up in the midi matrix in either app, which I thought was necessary to send data between LFO data and its destination. Noinput mixer won't work unless connected thru the matrix in addition to being mapped w/ numbers.

    I still am sort of fumbling around in the dark re how midi works, apparently. What are those lanes in the matrices supposed to represent, anyway? Ports? I dunno.

    But I appreciate the confirmation, boss.

    There are two kinds of control It helps to understand routing if you think about which system (the app or the host) is controlling the parameters.

    • Internal CC control. Some, but not all, apps provide a way to control parameters directly by CC's sent to them. They may have a MIDI Learn function in the app. In this case you route directly to the app.
    • Host AUv3 parameter control. All but a very few AUv3 apps expose their controls as AUv3 parameters. These are handled by the host. In that case you route your controls to AUM's MIDI Control, rather than to the plugin.

    If you're playing from a keyboard and you're using the host's midi control you'd route to both the app and midi control. To the app to play notes, and to midi control to adjust parameters.

  • GUBGUB
    edited November 2023

    Interesting. I'm going to have to think about this for a while probably. Can you list some common apps that have internal cc control, but not host parameter control? Or vice versa?

    Would Lines then be the latter, w/ no "internal cc control? I'm trying to suss this whole thing out, and I think that would be helpful to know just for my own experimentation...

    And thanks for your help @wim

  • wimwim

    @GUB said:
    Interesting. I'm going to have to think about this for a while probably. Can you list some common apps that have internal cc control, but not host parameter control? If such exist? I'm trying to suss this whole thing out, and I think that would be helpful to know just for my own clarification...

    And thanks for your help @wim

    tbh, I don't keep track and would have to sift through my plugins one by one. Maybe someone else pays more attention to this and can chip in.

    I generally stick with just host AUv3 parameter control. I like sticking to one method and not having to keep straight how each plugin is controlled.

    The only advantage of controlling directly in the plugin is portability between hosts. If an app has a controller knob mapped internally, when you move it to another host the same controller knob (should) control it without having to remap to the host's control.

  • uncledaveuncledave

    @GUB said:
    Interesting. I'm going to have to think about this for a while probably. Can you list some common apps that have internal cc control, but not host parameter control? Or vice versa?

    Would Lines then be the latter, w/ no "internal cc control? I'm trying to suss this whole thing out, and I think that would be helpful to know just for my own experimentation...

    And thanks for your help @wim

    Normally, if an app has predefined internal CCs, they will be documented. If it supports MIDI Learn, that will be accessible in its GUI. These are the only ways to control an app running stand-alone. When you run an app as AUv3 and open its window, the available AUv3 parameters are listed by AUM when you tap on the sliders icon in the window title bar. So, you can easily determine which features a given app supports.

  • GUBGUB

    @Uncledave. Right, I was just wondering about why some apps don't appear in the routing matrix. E.g. Noises does, Lines doesn't. Both the same dev, so it doesn't seem to just be different devs preferring to do things differently. Maybe it's instrument vs. generator vs. effect related, I'm thinking...

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @GUB said:
    @Uncledave. Right, I was just wondering about why some apps don't appear in the routing matrix. E.g. Noises does, Lines doesn't. Both the same dev, so it doesn't seem to just be different devs preferring to do things differently. Maybe it's instrument vs. generator vs. effect related, I'm thinking...

    Apps that have the hamburger menu / 3 horizontal lines to the left of their icon in AUM appear in the matrix (I think that includes all instruments but it also includes some fx which take midi notes directly as a modulation source). Apps that don't receive midi notes directly don't appear in the matrix, which includes the vast majority of fx apps.

    It's definitely confusing at first. In general tho, just think like this - use the matrix for sending midi notes. If you want to assign an app as a modulator instead, for example an lfo, either don't use the matrix at all and instead use the little button shown in the pic below, in the destination app, or route it to midi control in the matrix. You'll get used to it eventually!

  • GUBGUB

    Thanks, man. Yeah, after everyone's input I think I got it. Because I've been using ApeMate, I haven't really dug into my LFO apps, and today I figured I have six or whatever LFO apps, it's time I used em, and heard what they can do.... Appreciate your thoughts.

    Say, how do you like your adopted country, and you thinking of settling down there for good?

    @GUB said:
    @Uncledave. Right, I was just wondering about why some apps don't appear in the routing matrix. E.g. Noises does, Lines doesn't. Both the same dev, so it doesn't seem to just be different devs preferring to do things differently. Maybe it's instrument vs. generator vs. effect related, I'm thinking...

    Apps that have the hamburger menu / 3 horizontal lines to the left of their icon in AUM appear in the matrix (I think that includes all instruments but it also includes some fx which take midi notes directly as a modulation source). Apps that don't receive midi notes directly don't appear in the matrix, which includes the vast majority of fx apps.

    It's definitely confusing at first. In general tho, just think like this - use the matrix for sending midi notes. If you want to assign an app as a modulator instead, for example an lfo, either don't use the matrix at all and instead use the little button shown in the pic below, in the destination app, or route it to midi control in the matrix. You'll get used to it eventually!

  • GavinskiGavinski

    @GUB said:
    Thanks, man. Yeah, after everyone's input I think I got it. Because I've been using ApeMate, I haven't really dug into my LFO apps, and today I figured I have six or whatever LFO apps, it's time I used em, and heard what they can do.... Appreciate your thoughts.

    Say, how do you like your adopted country, and you thinking of settling down there for good?

    @GUB said:
    @Uncledave. Right, I was just wondering about why some apps don't appear in the routing matrix. E.g. Noises does, Lines doesn't. Both the same dev, so it doesn't seem to just be different devs preferring to do things differently. Maybe it's instrument vs. generator vs. effect related, I'm thinking...

    Apps that have the hamburger menu / 3 horizontal lines to the left of their icon in AUM appear in the matrix (I think that includes all instruments but it also includes some fx which take midi notes directly as a modulation source). Apps that don't receive midi notes directly don't appear in the matrix, which includes the vast majority of fx apps.

    It's definitely confusing at first. In general tho, just think like this - use the matrix for sending midi notes. If you want to assign an app as a modulator instead, for example an lfo, either don't use the matrix at all and instead use the little button shown in the pic below, in the destination app, or route it to midi control in the matrix. You'll get used to it eventually!

    Ah haha, I like it but it's not my adopted country or anything, just a short term thing, no idea really about longer plans!

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