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Dynamics plugin option overload
Frst off, I know there are 8 million threads recommending compressors, mastering tools, other mixing tools, etc. I know because I’ve read many of them (and thank you all for your contributions - I’ve certainly learned a lot the past few days).
Now I have a list of 18 apps for mixing and mastering. I’m completely overwhelmed by the options and would like to get a recommendation from you all based on my needs. I’m attempting to make IDMish style music. I’ve made a few mixes but I can never seem to get the various tracks to stand out from one another. Specifically I recently had a problem with a snare & hi hat getting lost in the mix. I tried using Bark Filter on all the tracks to open up the mids but I just couldn’t get it right. I immediately started looking for a good transient shaper. I saw a lot of recommendations for FAC Transient and BlueManGoo’s shaper. Then I started seeing recommendations for other mixing tools like ToneBoosters Barricade, MagicDeathEye, FAC Medusa, AU3FX:Push, Schlap, Smoov, multiple Fab Filter apps, etc.
So now I’m at a standstill. I don’t have the budget to just buy a bunch and try them out, so I want to make sure whatever I get will go the furthest towards solving my problem. Hence this post. A couple specific questions:
Do I need a standalone transient shaper if I get a good compressor?
I know different compressors give you a different sound, is there a post (or multiple posts) that categorize the various compressors by their sound?
I appreciate any thoughts/recommendations you all have. Thank you!
Comments
Sounds like you might need to pay more attention to sound selection, arrangement and EQ (particularly cutting to open space for what you can’t hear) the dynamics.
Having elements getting lost in the mix: proper eq, panning, you could narrow snare to mono, boost the sides of hihats. Also try saturation when having things not coming through enough, it adds harmonics instead of volume. Getting all levels balanced over your entire mix: faders/pans
Fac transient is a very good shaper. Also try Flux 2 for shaping.
If you use the Logic Pro app, you will have everything you need in terms of mixing tools.
Fabfilters apps are great to have for mixing/mastering: Pro Q, Pro MB, Pro C.
Thanks for the reply. Sounds like a case of “garbage in, garbage out”. That is, the final mix can only be as good as the sounds going into it. I’ve already started paying more attention to that since I posted this. Today I took the Blip Box preset I’ve been using and tried to improve it in this direction. Haven’t had a chance to add some other instruments with it, but hopefully it will be good.
I also picked up Korvpressor and NoLimits 2 based on recommendations here (and the BF sale on Klevgrand). So far so good.
Are you referring to Flux Mini 2? https://apps.apple.com/us/app/flux-mini-2/id1617636726
I think I can see how shaping might work with that. I’ll give it a try!
You don't need any more tools. Now it's a matter of learning how and when to use them. The standout advice here is about paying attention to the source sound and carving out a place in the mix for each sound.
Transient shapers? I think you're barking up the wrong tree there.
Taking the lost hat and snare for a second. Have you isolated each in turn to see where they are in the mix, what frequencies and pan position they primarily occupy? As mentioned, starting with mono sounds, not washed out with reverb, first can help.
Next, take a look at the rest of the mix without each of those sounds. What other sounds are taking up that frequency range? What sounds like it's panned to the same place? What can you pan out of the way? You would be surprised how far just a little panning can go. What can you cut with an EQ in those frequencies without adversely affecting the mix?
If panning and EQ aren't effective for whatever reason, then it's time to resort to side chain ducking. What this means is briefly reducing the conflicting other sounds just during the peak of the snare or hat. This is what side chain compressors do. You send the snare and/or hat to them, and they use that to reduce the peaks of a conflicting sound just when the side chain sound kicks in.
Anyway ... my main point is there's no magic bullet tool to fix a problem like you describe. The answer lies in knowing how to find a place in the mix where each sound can live.
That's not applicable to your issue. Compressors don't really have a "sound". Some have a subtle "character", which is primarily related to intentional analog character added to their sound. By that I really mean "saturation".
Back in the days when compressors worked using analog circuitry, they varied in how they achieved compression and in the type of subtle EQ and saturation they imparted. Some were highly prized for these qualities. Digital compression is pure mathematics. Some compressors intentionally try to model the character of analog units. Others go for a more clean approach.
But, the important thing is: this is irrelevant when it comes to the mixing problem you've described. Can you find a compressor that will impart a character to your mixes that you like better? Possibly. Will a certain compressor fix your problems better than others. Highly unlikely.
I doubt there's a list of compressors categorized by their "sound". If there is it would be a load of BS. At best you may be able to find something comparing compressors by the character or coloring they impart to the sound. Such a list might be of interest, but would be no help for the issues you're addressing right now.
I've been using AUM on my iPad and Bitwig for years. I've known some of these things before, but for some reason I tend to forget the basics and get too distracted by "ooh shiny". Thanks for the advice/reminder, it's always important to have the basics down first.
Do you think Tone Booster's Spectrogram is good enough for analyzing the frequencies?
Yes, though probably people more experienced than I am can offer better recommendations.
I find 4Pockets AudioScope super useful because it makes it easy to compare two two audio channels next to each other. Plus it has EQ and Compression built in to the same plugin, and has a nice interface for messing with panning and levels in a visual way. But that's just my own preference.
I talk a good game, but in terms of actual skill and experience, you have to take anything I say with a HUGE grain of salt.
I don't know @wim , but to me you make flawless sense. Basically put everything I'd probably have said rather succinctly. Cheers mate.
@jerps I highly recommend everything by Toneboosters as they are cheaper than Fab Filter, and the plugins are universal between iPad and iPhone. But before you buy those, learn what you got first.
@wim explained everything succinctly.
@wim @jwmmakerofmusic Along these lines, I have a specific question. As an exercise I designed a simple snare using an oscillator. It ended up super quiet, even with gain turned up. I'm using a combination of saturation and limiter at the moment, and it sounds pretty nice. I'm worried about losing some dynamics with the limiter as I add instruments and adjust. How would you go about making that loud enough to fit into the mix?
Do you want to continue playing it as a synthesized sound, or would sampling it be OK? If you sample it then you can just normalize the sample and it will be at the maximum level it should reasonably be. If it still gets lost in the mix then reducing the rest of the mix or using eq and panning as mentioned earlier is better than boosting the sample beyond 0db.
If your snare gets lost in the mix, what is occupying that spot other than the snare? Kick? Other percussive elements? You can try to put the snare a little of grid so it doesnt hit equally with the kick for ex. This helps to keep the dynamics down. Maybe flip the phase of your snare and see if that fits better. Soften the attack and play with release and adjust the volume.
Other than that I totally agree with @wim
If still no fix, use another snare or change the overlapping element.
I think you should read what @wim and @Samu has written. You have all you need, you need to learn to use what you have to the full extent before you get more apps. The choices are only holding you back at this stage.
/DMfan🇸🇪
Sometimes saturation goes a long way to 'bring out quiet sounds' without overloading the output...
...if the mix is already dense some EQ might be needed to make room for the sounds and it's always better to cut than boost.
It's easy to be tricked into thinking that boosting is the solution when one can't hear things when in harsh reality is the opposite, remove the stuff that is masking what needs to be heard and even things out.
Knock is still on sale and I might even grab that myself for the days when I feel lazy
I finally got Knock during this sale and don’t regret it at all. It’s really great and I can kinda see the hype now.
do you have bark filter?
it's 3 band preset, tonebooster eq AI helper, and now logic's mastering plugin might get you more "automagically" better sound
I got it as well
Personally I don't se it as a 'replacement' for Beatformer (which is 'gone' since long) as it doesn't offer any control over the sustain-portion of the sound as it mainly focuses on transients, saturation and clipping and a bit of sub-harmonic generation.
The 'Air Mode' is also not as 'smooth' as the classic BeatFormer but it is what it is another tool in the box.
(When I need more shaping options I can always use Logics 'Enveloper' tool to shape both the transient and sustain portion of a sound and feed thru the adaptive limiter).
Cheers!
Why are you using compression for IDM?
Why shouldn’t I? (Serious question)
It’s not really something that needs it though you can compress for tone/character.
If you’re looking for separation then that’s all in the arrangement. Most likely you have one or more elements doing too much and taking up too much space.
For the problem you specified, the best tool on the iOS platform is Pro-Q3. Insert this on all tracks in question and use the analyzer, then make compromises and EQ attenuate targeted collision frequencies in tracks that interfere with snares, etc. Prefer using dynamic nodes.
A mixing tip I heard once is to make sure your volumes are the same across input/output through an entire change. Put another way, make sure no modules are making your sound louder or softer (unless it’s a dynamics module I guess). IIRC this is to make sure you have plenty of headroom and nice consistency throughout your tracks.
@jerps Just out of curiosity...
...what are you using to monitor & listen to the stuff you make when 'stuff gets lost'.
Even simpler - this is so bypassing an effect doesn’t change perceived volume so you can judge the difference in how it sounds / the tone. The ear is really sensitive to volume, louder sounds better, so active measures have to be taken to avoid this misleading you.
I always defaulted to Beef+Clipper before this but I had a wild hair and just clicked buy without thinking lol but I’m glad I did. It’s really excellent. I think I’ll still use Beef for some things because I love it so much, but so I wish I would’ve waiting on buying just the Clipper app 😂
I agree with your assessment though. Not exactly the same as Beatformer even if they’re doing somewhat similar things. I wish I still had that app but when I got a new iPad it didn’t transfer over