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Both Boosting and Compression Needed - Across a WIDE Band of Frequencies
Hi,
I am "preparing" instrument audio for use in a synthesizer. My goal is present an even, solid level of audio (at a good DB) to the synth.
PROBLEM: Sometimes the audio signal is too soft (low DB), and at times it's too loud (higher DB) - and over a very broad range of frequencies - like 200Hz to 20KHz. I DO NOT KNOW - ahead of time which frequencies will be louder or softer, and when. Perhaps in song one at some point in time it's 400Hz that is too soft and needs boosting, then in the same song 20 seconds later that exact same frequency is too loud and it needs compressed. Yes, I know - I'm a terrible musician.
this is to be used in live performance - not recorded music; just to be clear
SOLUTION ATTEMPT: Since there is a broad frequency range that I want to both BOOST (only if the volume level is too low); or COMPRESS (only if /when the volume level is too strong or loud) - I thought I could use FabFilter Q3 with it's "dynamic" feature. Here's the pic:
OK. On the FabFilter forum their 'expert' suggested to use their Multiband Compressor. This doesn't seem to make sense to me; since -as I explained- up front I have no idea which frequencies need boosted or compressed, at which moment in time.
Are there better plugins to EVEN and 'strengthen' the DB level??
Fluxuating in Philly
Comments
Hi @Vmusic . A compressor boosts low levels and lowers high levels. However, it responds to the overall signal level, which is not what you want. A multiband compressor does the same thing in each frequency band. So it can boost a low level in one band, while lowering high level in another band. Sound like that's what you want. Note that if you're doing this with sound from a single instrument, you will be altering the harmonic content by attempting to "level" the spectrum.
There's an app called Multiband that you could get to experiment with, but I've no idea how to use it.
Maybe this? https://apps.apple.com/app/maze-rider-auto-leveling/id1521409352
While compressors in effect can boost low levels and reduce the peaks, what is happening is that when the signal level crosses the threshold, it reduces the gain (by an amount determined by the compression ratio).
In most (all?) compressors, low levels aren’t selectively raised. There are two mechanisms by which the quiet part can be made louder. There is usually an input gain control. It raises the entire signal’s level before the compression is applied to limit the volume. Post-compression, there is often an output gain knob that boosts the entire signal level at the output stage (make-up gain) which is needed when compression results in overall loudness being reduced noticeably.
It is different from gain riding you might do to turn volume up on low passages and down on loud passages.
It is a subtle but important distinction I think.
@Vmusic : the solution depends a lot on the specific content. Multiband compressors and/or dynamic eq would often be part of the solution… but a well setup regular compressor might also work.
You didn’t say which synthesizer you’re using. Is it software or hardware? If it’s a softsynth, you could adjust the sensitivity of your keys so your performance would be more “even”.
Korvpressor can squeeze all dynamics pretty hard. Has a limiter as well.
Having an unpredictable instrument like in your case where these frequency spikes come and go makes it hard to use automation. You could use the automation perfectly once rendered to audio.
No synth. It's a string instrument through an audio interface.
Are you using a microphone to record the instrument?
If yes then I'd first play around with microphone placement as that and the choice of mic plays quite a big role in what you later on will EQ and Compress.
The environment where the recordings are made also play quite a big part because once one starts to do heavy compression and EQ the stuff that is not easily heard will pop up like a sore thumb.
Overly compressing and processing and instrument will destroy it's natural dynamics that make the instrument what it is.
To be more precise, what are you 'recording' and what is the intended purpose of the recorded sounds?
Sound samples to be used as oscillators?
Also focusing too much on the db is nuts when using 24-bit recording.
Just leave enough head-room so there's no clipping and normalize in post if needed.
FIRST - Thank everyone who replied. I watched the tutorial videos.
I got it working better. It took 2 instances of Pro MB, and one instance of Q3.
I think my expectations are unrealistic. My sample file has nearly, in some points, a 30db difference in levels, and I don't think these tools are designed to handle large /dramatic differences. I want magic. I want to put in ANY audio at ANY level and press one button and get out a perfect, consistent -12DB level (or whatever I set it at).
I can say this is absolutely THE BEST forum. Much better than FabFilter forum or any other audio forum.
You originally said "I am "preparing" instrument audio for use in a synthesizer. My goal is present an even, solid level of audio (at a good DB) to the synth."
How are you running a stringed instrument (Violin? Guitar? Harp? Why aren't you just saying what is the instrument?) through a synthesizer? Sounds like you might be dealing with harmonics due to instrument resonance?
@Samu No. I have piezo pickup. I am doing 2 things with the audio: (1) turning it MIDI notes and then at other times (2) using like Roxsyn synth. I want as clean and EVEN volume to drive accurate conversions to MIDI and to assure tracking in the synth (Roxsyn). I can always, after all of the processing adjust the end volume.
This is all live performance.
Thanks!!
@NeuM - it's an electric, solid body violin. There's piezo pickup on the violin (a Yamaha pickup), and I run it through a Zoom U-44 audio interface. While I try to produce an even tone and volume, it doesn't always happen. They synths are all plugin inside my host. Like Korg Module, and Roxsyn (which doesn't use MIDI, but it does "track" the input, so having a consistent level helps the tracking).
Thanks for your help!!
So, is it as I suspect? Are you dealing with harmonics which are driving Roxsyn crazy? I played violin for years. A violin relies on the resonant properties of the body to project sound. When you multiply these resonances, you're going to get all kinds of problems... or am I wrong? Is your violin the kind with no resonant body?
EDIT: I just noticed you mentioned it's a solid body violin...
They suggested Pro-MB, probably because of the upward compression. So use one Pro-MB in full spectral range for upward compression and the other one for downward compression. You don’t need to know frequency, just thresholds for upward and downward compression.
If you want to cut frequencies lower than 50 Hz, make a band for that and attenuate as you wish. Also, make another one for frequencies above 20 kHz.
Pro-Q is a bad choice for what you want. @tja gave you good information.
Here is my compression chart. I hope it will help you.
Woott might be worth trying. It's made for radical expansion + compression. It should be able to squash the hell out of that sound. Yes it has three bands, but there's nothing stopping you setting them all the same if the whole range is what you need.
@NeuM - it's not an NS, like the picture you posted, but yes it is a solid body. The resonance is small, very small compared to an acoustic. As you stated with an acoustic you get all types of harmonics, and sub harmonics, and supsersonics, and ten other "onics".... yeah
@wim THANK YOU!! I'll give it a try, and run a side by side with the other channel
This was gonna be my suggestion as well. That or Woott and TB MBC.
One thing worth trying if consistent level is needed to record thru TB Barricade and apply heavy compression on the input and set the output ceiling as needed (ie. -12 in this case) and crank the output gain to the max and it will never go past the set upper limit.
Bark filter!