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Should I learn Repear or Ableton over Xmas break?
Currently, I mostly use MPC hardware and MPC 2 desktop software for music production.
Years ago - maybe 10 or so, I used Ableton and got burnt out and frustrated with it. It might have the feeling that it took forever each session to get my guitar and setup configured. But generally burnt out.
I've been taking a hard look at Reaper, and it's been my current goto for light duties when the MPC can't come through. There's a lot to love about it, but I keep suspecting I'll have to get pretty techy to use it.
It's clear Ableton is the big standard DAW in the forest. I have the latest Lite version from a recent purchase.
Given I really don't want to spend all my Xmas break learning two DAWs, but not one, which would you recommend I really dive into?
Thanks,
Joe
Comments
I started using Reaper and become pretty annoyed with it. It is extremely configurable but way much. I wish it choose a work flow and stayed in one direction.
I did not take long for me to have to start looking for script to fill missing feature such as randomize midi note velocity.
Also my Korg nanoKontrol was not supported so I had to dig for more script and quit on that.
Not for me. I went back to using Waveform (formerly Tracktion). I been a paying user of Tracktion since version 2.
Live has grown a lot in the past 10 years, so I'd advocate for Ableton. It's one of the modern "gold standard" DAWs. Plus it's easier to collab with others when they also use the same DAW.
I learned the lite version 10-12 years ago, and it was a'ight, but I was so used to the FL Studio workflow that I stuck with that instead.
Anyways, I tried FL Studio 21 (or whatever the latest number is) on my new laptop, and I'm completely lost. I think I long forgot my old workflow, that's how long I didn't bother with Windows. So if I wish to, I can relearn FL. Then again, I think I may stick with LP4i for a main DAW as, honestly I'm far more comfortable within that despite its finicky UI and such. (At least now LP4i has the ability to do split view so I can load things easier into it from Sample Crate. 😂 And of course Mastering Assistant.)
As I have stated many time I work in programming. When I create music I don’t want be scripting and configuring stuff.
Amen!
FYI, my full time job is a UX guy working all the time with software product teams. So I used to always say I want to keep the laptop closed in my evenings, when I make music.
My thinking has evolved from saying "no screens" in making music to realizing that if I can keep my hands on an instrument or a controller or keyboard, and also have a screen to look occasionally, that can be OK. Hence the MPC. ANd it's also why I have recently bought MIDI controller, like the Keylab, to keep my hands on an instruments as much as possible.
So maybe, maybe, I might tiptoe into Ableton land again.
The Reaper site says you'll get 60 days to try it for free.
So maybe try Reaper for free as well as your Ableton Live Lite, and compare experiences.
Just record a couple of tracks into each DAW, and mix on each DAW and see how you get on. Every DAW out there always boils down to these basic needs - record tracks, mix tracks.
You have some time before the 20% off on Live 12 deal expires.
The Ableton Devices are plentiful and amazing. I recently bought Live 11 Suite after using Cakewalk since the late 90s. I like the clip-based workflow from my Akai Force, so I thought I'd give Ableton a chance. I used Lite for about 3 years and it was pretty meh. Got Suite, and the Devices are awesome. I could have saved myself a ton of cash buying VST plugins since the Ableton Devices cover most of it.
I don't know about Reaper but people seem to love it.
You should learn Ableton, the more people who use it the more likely I am to keep my job
Besides, Reaper just sounds deadly.
If you enjoy tweaking and dialing your setup to a T and automating task, Using different skins it perfect.
May take you a while to get there.
@ecou, Skins for Live? Where can I get these? Thanks.
I was talking about Reaper. I know nothing about Live. Sorry for the confusion.
I learned Reaper first. Tried to switch to Live as I really wanted to collaborate with my brother. Couldn’t make it work and went back to Reaper.
Probably the opposite would happen if I learned Ableton first.
I say Ableton because, if you like hardware, you might find your way to a Push someday. I haven’t booted into Ableton desktop since I bought the Push 3 Standalone on the second day it went on sale, it’s just been so fun. That said, when Ableton 12 comes out, I will be trying to stay completely in Ableton as much as possible for the next year as a science experiment. It has everything I want except a dynamic EQ which you can kind of workaround with envelope followers but just feels like they could easily implement this on EQ8. All the new MIdI functionality coming in Live 12, alternate tunings, in key mode on bunches of their native plugins, looks like an amazing upgrade.
For my needs I find Reaper does 99% of what I want. I also find it intuitive. It's not very expensive either. It's my main DAW.
I find Live daunting, and although there are a few things I use it for, I could never use it as my main DAW. Although I should mention I haven't put the time into learning it. The same is true for Reaper though and I get along with it fine. Live is more expensive by quite a margin, even if you want the minimal package. I have a bloated plugin folder so I just use the bones of Live. Not much of the extras.
You really need to spend some time with the demo of each (IMO) before you even think about putting time into digging deeper.
I recently started using a Push 2 that I have long neglected, only this time I set up a groovebox-like default template, with drums, bass, an Operator synth, and a track for sampling. I’ve been having a grand old time. Plus the Ableton 12 beta is fantastic, with some huge upgrades to the piano roll and midi clips, and it adds a lot of the Push 3 features to the Push 2.
It is not an anwer to your question, but, I went from Logic on PC to Studio One, that was a nice transition.
I don't have it anymore on my computer, but if I want to go back, I would look first at the newest Studio One. And Reason too.
I’d also suggest giving Ableton another go. Regarding setup, I’d recommend that once you’ve got it set up the way you like, save it as a template. You can then configure it so whenever you start a new project, it will start with your template, saving you from that tedious task and allowing you to get straight into music making.
These are a good starting point:
https://sonicbloom.net/free-ableton-live-11-themes-mega-pack-55-themes/
https://www.livethemes.co/
Contrary advice: use Bitwig instead. Ableton is ok but Bitwig keeps getting better.
I guess, if I were to learn Ableton, I would choose to learn Bitwig instead, because it's more nerdy.
As it is, I use FL Studio, which is nice, because of their free updates. If I weren't using FL... I'd probably still go with them, simply from an economics point of view. And because I've gotten used to how it works.
The only issue is that FL lets you be as messy as you want. There is very little hand holding in organizing and streamlining. So you have to have discipline. Setting up a nice default template with favorite synths, tracks and effects helps a lot.
FWIW, I love Gadget on iOS, and it's easy to work the same way in FL, with the addition of being able to use a true timeline.
If I had to choose between Reaper and Ableton, I'd go with Ableton. But I wouldn't pick between those two.
That sounds promising
can you say which features have been updated for the Push 2?
Does it show the session clips with names on the Push 2 display for example?
Reaper is flexible but for geeks and DYI type guys , all daws are good ones if you click with them and the sound is the same whatever is the Daw.
A bit HS here but the Daw of reference to avoid is Protools, far too expensive for not even 10 % of what other Daw offer but AVID is a big failure story nowadays.
Ableton is a good choice if you click with it , many don’t click, if you are aware that you need a budget as it is quite expensive to upgrade and many now switch to Reason or Bitwig partly for that. All 3 are good for electro EDM etc….. and many style.
Cubase is still a choice if you are in style like complex music like movie music.
It is not anymore true to state that Ableton is easier to collaborate with other as they all are on Ableton as even in electro each DJ , beatmaker use all type of Daw Reason, Bitwig, Cubase, Logic or Ableton.
To my opinion Reaper is not for everyone compared to other daws. Ableton can be a good choice if you are not thighs for money and are able to pay for it.
FYI, last night I used Ableton Lite 11 using my new first gen KeyLab 49 MIDI controller. I followed along with Loopop's 37 min tutorial of Ableton titled something like Don't Panic. (Love loopop vids, btw.)
Sharing some thoughts:
I left feeling like I can learn this. But what is the point of Ableton? Is it about an optimal workflow for making a bunch of clips? If so, can't I do this anyway with most DAWs? Granted, if I am performing live and really want to mix up the clips at will, Ableton would be a great way to go. I don't know if I can say that makes it more intuitive than MPC for capturing ideas and organically growing a song.
ALso have to say the standardization and reach of Ableton DOES make a difference. If other apps import / export to any DAW by name, it's Ableton.
Other totally out-there thought to share.... if iOS had the standardization and integration to work each other and hardware like the Keylab, that could draw me closer to coming back to iOS more.
Music-making with a mature, standard controller platform makes it feel a LOT less like I'm still on a computer all day. Even if I am occasionally still looking at a screen.
As for the style of music I'll create. TBH, it's songs. Songs with vocals - currently fake AI ones from Synth V. And some day instrumental songs. So far, despite MPC and all my sample apps, I've yet to really do "beat making" much, or EDM.
In other words, linear music with simple layers of instruments, live and MIDI and now AI. And sections for an overall flow putting listeners on a simple journey.
Last thing -- I'm OK with ugly UI, like Reaper. I just don't want to pull my hair out or worry about parsing my words exactly to get answers from very technical people. Or being told I need to learn to script a bit or learn some Python. So long as I can my answers quick, get the features I need easily, and I don't feel like I'm throwing money and time down a black hole, I'm good.
I fine to hang out with geeks after hours, just so we don't have to think too much.
It does! Also, you can freeze and flatten tracks, and long-press metronome and quantize buttons to get to their settings.
That's great to hear!
Makes the upgrade more tempting now for sure
Here’s an anecdote that seems to match the general vibe of the thread: One of my closest friends works as a professional audio engineer. They use Reaper for that because they can create scripts and macros to streamline, or even automate, large portions of their work.
When they want to write music (regardless of whether it’s for work or for fun), they use Ableton Live because it’s easy to get ideas down and refine them later. Projects also generally require a lot less prep.
For my part: I used Reaper from 2011-2013 and had a pretty good handle on the basic “DAW stuff,” but since trying Ableton during the “Buy Live 8 now and get Live 9 for free when it comes out” promo, I’ve never even considered going back. Not everyone clicks with the interface but I love how compact and tidy everything is.