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The problem is synchronization (or quantization) when switching loops

2

Comments

  • Command settings in the appropriate sequence

  • edited December 2023

  • The video clearly shows that with a repeated (!) command from the MIDI controller (0:50), a shift of 2 bars occurs and the main loops do not complete these 2 bars until the solo begins.

    https://youtu.be/OdeyLgBi_wc

  • edited December 2023

    Clip phase settings

  • That seems to be everything you asked for

  • @Vyacheslav said:
    That seems to be everything you asked for

    Hi,

    For future reference, I w> @Vyacheslav said:

    When sending the "solo" command, a failure occurs for 2 measures, this is visible and audible on the recording.

    I'll post pictures with explanations soon.

    And I'll make a more correct video

    When sending WHICH solo command -- your sequence sends a few.

    I understand that this may seem obvious to you as you are familiar with what you are trying to do and the material -- but to someone unfamiliar with the project and what you want to have happen it may not be easy to follow.

    Your action sequence has 5 actions. Which is the first action that does something different from what you intend?


    For the first step that diverges from your intention describe exactly what you wanted to have happen (i.e. which loops you want to be playing and which not playing, where in relation to the clock you want it to fire).

    As I understand your action sequence, the first action will trigger at the next 8 bar multiple after the command is received at which time it will leave oracler and drums playing as they were and bridge (which is a two bar loop will start playing).

    As soon as that triggers (at an eight bar multiple), the second action triggers which unsolos a bunch of stuff.

    Is that understanding correct?

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Vyacheslav said:
    That seems to be everything you asked for

    Hi,

    For future reference, I w> @Vyacheslav said:

    When sending the "solo" command, a failure occurs for 2 measures, this is visible and audible on the recording.

    I'll post pictures with explanations soon.

    And I'll make a more correct video

    When sending WHICH solo command -- your sequence sends a few.

    I understand that this may seem obvious to you as you are familiar with what you are trying to do and the material -- but to someone unfamiliar with the project and what you want to have happen it may not be easy to follow.

    Your action sequence has 5 actions. Which is the first action that does something different from what you intend?


    For the first step that diverges from your intention describe exactly what you wanted to have happen (i.e. which loops you want to be playing and which not playing, where in relation to the clock you want it to fire).

    As I understand your action sequence, the first action will trigger at the next 8 bar multiple after the command is received at which time it will leave oracler and drums playing as they were and bridge (which is a two bar loop will start playing).

    As soon as that triggers (at an eight bar multiple), the second action triggers which unsolos a bunch of stuff.

    Is that understanding correct?

    Hi,

    1. Didn't answer correctly. When sending a series of commands, i.e. All these commands are controlled by the keys of the MIDI controller.
    2. A repeated series of commands leads to a lead of 2 bars.
    3. DRUMS+CRACLER are played continuously.
      When BASS 01+GUIT01/1 (8 bars) is played, the rest of the songs are stopped.
      After giving a series of commands, with a delay, the Bridge loop (2 bars) is played, it plays once, while BASS 01+GUIT01/1-- STOP.
      After 1 cycle of playing Bridge, it stops and the loops BASS 02+GUIT 02/2 (8 bars) begin to play, they also play 1 cycle. In this case, BASS 01+GUIT01/1-- STOP.
      After playing BASS 02+GUIT 02/2, they stop and the main loop starts playing again - BASS 01+GUIT01/1.
    4. You understand correctly.
    5. A multiplicity of 8 bars is required, but when repeated, this does not happen, there is no synchronization or something else, perhaps the Bridge loop (2 bars) and my incorrect settings are interfering, this is what I am trying to figure out.
  • It might be that as we go through it step-by-step that play/stop actions may be what you need sometimes.

    I find it useful to put the actions in a widget while getting them right. They are easier to edit that way AND when you make a screen recording, we can see when the widget is triggered if you trigger it by hand.

    Once the sequence works, I add a midi binding to the widget…which I might put in another page to keep it out of the way.

    Can you do that?

    I’ll ask again. What is the first thing in the action sequence that is not doing what you want?

  • Since 8+2 equals 10 not 8…you can’t repeat the sequence and have it be in synch with an eight bar cycle (that’s not particular to loopy) . But that might be an issue to solve once we get whatever the first problems solved are.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    Since 8+2 equals 10 not 8…you can’t repeat the sequence and have it be in synch with an eight bar cycle (that’s not particular to loopy) . But that might be an issue to solve once we get whatever the first problems solved are.

    Here is the answer to my question.

  • @espiegel123 said:
    It might be that as we go through it step-by-step that play/stop actions may be what you need sometimes.

    I find it useful to put the actions in a widget while getting them right. They are easier to edit that way AND when you make a screen recording, we can see when the widget is triggered if you trigger it by hand.

    Once the sequence works, I add a midi binding to the widget…which I might put in another page to keep it out of the way.

    Can you do that?

    I’ll ask again. What is the first thing in the action sequence that is not doing what you want?

    I will try to do this

    I'm happy with the sequence of actions. I'm not happy with the lack of synchronization when resending the command. It's obvious from your answer "Since 8+2 equals 10 not 8…you can’t repeat the sequence and have it be in synch with an eight bar cycle (that’s not particular to loopy) "

  • @Vyacheslav said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    It might be that as we go through it step-by-step that play/stop actions may be what you need sometimes.

    I find it useful to put the actions in a widget while getting them right. They are easier to edit that way AND when you make a screen recording, we can see when the widget is triggered if you trigger it by hand.

    Once the sequence works, I add a midi binding to the widget…which I might put in another page to keep it out of the way.

    Can you do that?

    I’ll ask again. What is the first thing in the action sequence that is not doing what you want?

    I will try to do this

    I'm happy with the sequence of actions. I'm not happy with the lack of synchronization when resending the command. It's obvious from your answer "Since 8+2 equals 10 not 8…you can’t repeat the sequence and have it be in synch with an eight bar cycle (that’s not particular to loopy) "

    Let's start with the first thing that I asked you. Whatever lack of synchronization you mean (which still isn't clear to me but which should become clear if we go through this step by step), is probably the result of how the events are set up to be quantized.

    Hopefully it will become clear either what I am not understanding about what you are trying to do or you will come to understand what the issue is so that we can figure out the solution.

    ======== Ignore what is below if it will be a distraction.

    What I mean about eight plus two is that what you have explained is that you have an 8 bar loop that is running all the time. And it sounds like you want a two bar "solo" to start at the beginning of an eight bar cycle and have that followed by eight bars.

    That is a ten bar pattern.

    Let's call your 8-bar pattern DRUMS. Let's call the two-bar pattern SOLO. Let's call the other eight-bar pattern VERSE

    Let's say that you start the clock and DRUMS playing.

    You trigger SOLO to start playing at the beginning of the next 8-bar cycle. It will start playing at bar 9 and end after bar 10.

    VERSE (and 8-bar pattern) plays starting at bar 11 and finishes at the end of bar 18.

    We are now at the beginning of bar 19. This does not line up with a new cycle of DRUMS. DRUMS is an eight bar cycle, it is now at the beginning of bar 3 of its third cycle. (Cycle 1: bars 1-8. Cycle 2: bars 9-16. Cycle 3 is bars 17-24.)

    So if you want DRUMS to always be starting from the beginning after SOLO (2 bars) plus VERSE 8 bars), it needs to be stopped and restarted.

    Similarly, if any 8-bar loops are set to be play quantized to their length (8-bars), they won't start playing if you trigger at measure 19 since that is not a multiple of 8. The next 8 bar cycle starts at bar 25.

    Anyway, if we take this one step at a time, this will be clear and it probably is just a matter if changing the event and action quantization settings.

  • @espiegel123 said:

    @Vyacheslav said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    It might be that as we go through it step-by-step that play/stop actions may be what you need sometimes.

    I find it useful to put the actions in a widget while getting them right. They are easier to edit that way AND when you make a screen recording, we can see when the widget is triggered if you trigger it by hand.

    Once the sequence works, I add a midi binding to the widget…which I might put in another page to keep it out of the way.

    Can you do that?

    I’ll ask again. What is the first thing in the action sequence that is not doing what you want?

    I will try to do this

    I'm happy with the sequence of actions. I'm not happy with the lack of synchronization when resending the command. It's obvious from your answer "Since 8+2 equals 10 not 8…you can’t repeat the sequence and have it be in synch with an eight bar cycle (that’s not particular to loopy) "

    Let's start with the first thing that I asked you. Whatever lack of synchronization you mean (which still isn't clear to me but which should become clear if we go through this step by step), is probably the result of how the events are set up to be quantized.

    Hopefully it will become clear either what I am not understanding about what you are trying to do or you will come to understand what the issue is so that we can figure out the solution.

    ======== Ignore what is below if it will be a distraction.

    What I mean about eight plus two is that what you have explained is that you have an 8 bar loop that is running all the time. And it sounds like you want a two bar "solo" to start at the beginning of an eight bar cycle and have that followed by eight bars.

    That is a ten bar pattern.

    Let's call your 8-bar pattern DRUMS. Let's call the two-bar pattern SOLO. Let's call the other eight-bar pattern VERSE

    Let's say that you start the clock and DRUMS playing.

    You trigger SOLO to start playing at the beginning of the next 8-bar cycle. It will start playing at bar 9 and end after bar 10.

    VERSE (and 8-bar pattern) plays starting at bar 11 and finishes at the end of bar 18.

    We are now at the beginning of bar 19. This does not line up with a new cycle of DRUMS. DRUMS is an eight bar cycle, it is now at the beginning of bar 3 of its third cycle. (Cycle 1: bars 1-8. Cycle 2: bars 9-16. Cycle 3 is bars 17-24.)

    So if you want DRUMS to always be starting from the beginning after SOLO (2 bars) plus VERSE 8 bars), it needs to be stopped and restarted.

    Similarly, if any 8-bar loops are set to be play quantized to their length (8-bars), they won't start playing if you trigger at measure 19 since that is not a multiple of 8. The next 8 bar cycle starts at bar 25.

    Anyway, if we take this one step at a time, this will be clear and it probably is just a matter if changing the event and action quantization settings.

    I think I understand what you are talking about. Tomorrow I'll try to make a widget and report it. Good night and thanks for your help and your time)

  • edited December 2023

    Hello!
    I apologize for not answering on time, because I don’t always have time for this.
    I made a widget and transferred all actions to it.
    Removed empty loops.
    Recorded a new video.
    What should I do next?


    https://youtu.be/7DWONXRQIu8

  • What is the first action in the sequence that behaves differently from what you want?

    What precisely do you want the action to do? What is actually happening when it executes?

  • @espiegel123 said:
    What is the first action in the sequence that behaves differently from what you want?

    What precisely do you want the action to do? What is actually happening when it executes?

    The first action in the sequence that does not behave correctly occurs after the next click on the widget (0:53 in the video)

    I want the next time I click on the widget, the countdown will coincide with the main label on the loops.

    There is an advance of 2 bars and therefore the musical phrase is not completed by these 2 bars.

  • When you press the button at 53 seconds, the action is triggered to play at the beginning of the next 8-bar cycle....and that is what happens. So, I am not understanding when you want it to trigger. It is triggering at the next cycle.

    Watch the playhead that moves around the Drums track. You will see that when you press the button, it counts in and starts when the playhead reaches the start of the next cycle.

    When do you want it to start compared to where it does start?

    I think the issue is that you have set your action to start at the next 8 measure boundary (which aligns with the drums), but you have a musical phrase that is 18 bars long.

    So, Loopy is doing what you told it to do.

    Maybe it would help you to sketch it linearly on paper so that you see.

    it goes something like this

    bars 1-8 : tap row of clips plays
    bars: 9-10: lower-right clip plays
    bars 11-18 : bass 2 and guitar 2 ---> these are eight bars long
    bar 19 bass 1 and guitar 1 start playing ... their full cycle would end at the end of bar 26
    somewhere in here YOU TRIGGER your action.

    Your action is set to play at the next eight bar cycle which is the beginning of measure 25

  • I am getting the sense that you want the action to fire when bass 1/guitar 1 end rather than at the next multiple of 8 bars.

  • @Vyacheslav : do you want the overall structure to repeat over and over or do you need to arbitrarily trigger it?

  • edited December 2023

    @espiegel123 said:
    @Vyacheslav : do you want the overall structure to repeat over and over or do you need to arbitrarily trigger it?

    @espiegel123 said:
    When you press the button at 53 seconds, the action is triggered to play at the beginning of the next 8-bar cycle....and that is what happens. So, I am not understanding when you want it to trigger. It is triggering at the next cycle.

    Watch the playhead that moves around the Drums track. You will see that when you press the button, it counts in and starts when the playhead reaches the start of the next cycle.

    When do you want it to start compared to where it does start?

    I think the issue is that you have set your action to start at the next 8 measure boundary (which aligns with the drums), but you have a musical phrase that is 18 bars long.

    So, Loopy is doing what you told it to do.

    Maybe it would help you to sketch it linearly on paper so that you see.

    it goes something like this

    bars 1-8 : tap row of clips plays
    bars: 9-10: lower-right clip plays
    bars 11-18 : bass 2 and guitar 2 ---> these are eight bars long
    bar 19 bass 1 and guitar 1 start playing ... their full cycle would end at the end of bar 26
    somewhere in here YOU TRIGGER your action.

    Your action is set to play at the next eight bar cycle which is the beginning of measure 25

    Hello!
    I want it to start, compared to where it starts, 2 bars later.

    and I roughly understand what you are telling me, but what should I do to fix this?

  • @espiegel123 said:
    I am getting the sense that you want the action to fire when bass 1/guitar 1 end rather than at the next multiple of 8 bars.

    Yes that's right

  • edited December 2023

    @espiegel123 said:
    @Vyacheslav : do you want the overall structure to repeat over and over or do you need to arbitrarily trigger it?

    I need to run it arbitrarily

  • @Vyacheslav said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    @Vyacheslav : do you want the overall structure to repeat over and over or do you need to arbitrarily trigger it?

    I need to run it arbitrarily

    Could you adapt your workflow so that you trigger one bar or two bars before before you want it to start?

    If you wanted the pattern to cycle that would be easy, or if you could trigger it some number of known bars before you want it to fire. The problem here is that your musical structure is unpredictable...every time this sequence fires it becomes two bars farther out of synch of your eight bar drum loop...and creates a changed overall cycle length. So, can't use a multiple, like you are now, because the length of your structure changes.

    If it were me and I wanted to be able to trigger it arbitrarily, I'd set it up so that I trigger it a bar early and take responsibility for knowing my song well enough to do that. That solution is uncomplicated. It just involves changing the play quantization to 1 or two bars.

    If you are always going to trigger it while guitar1 is playing, you could make stop guitar 1 be the first action of the action sequence before solo. That would guarantee that it finishes.

    There might be a tricky way with dials or follow actions or the sequencer.

    But maybe I am not understanding something about your structure. If it is predictable

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