Tera Pro WaveGuide…where is it? (Solved.)

Robin2

Festive greetings and best wishes to all for 2024, i hope it’s a good one for everyone.

Subject says it all really. The manual talks about the WaveGuide in relation to the Karplus module -

“FEEDBACK INPUT
Second input for the delay line. The input level can be adjusted with the feedback slider. For physical
modelling synthesis the WaveGuide output has to be patched to this input.“

I can’t find a WaveGuide. Where is it? @VirSyn? Anyone?

Philandering_Bastard

I’m pretty sure that this an artefact in the handbook and what is meant is the Wave Shaper module. @VirSyn ?

uncledave

I believe it's the output. The Karplus-Strong model is centered on a resonator, or waveguide. Where it says "KARPLUS" in green on a black lozenge, that's selected the Feedback input from itself. Those lozenges are the module input connections.

Robin2

@Philandering_Bastard said:
I’m pretty sure that this an artefact in the handbook and what is meant is the Wave Shaper module. @VirSyn ?

Thanks @Philandering_Bastard, i wondered if it was that? Hopefully @VirSyn can confirm?

Robin2

@uncledave said:
I believe it's the output. The Karplus-Strong model is centered on a resonator, or waveguide. Where it says "KARPLUS" in green on a black lozenge, that's selected the Feedback input from itself. Those lozenges are the module input connections.

Thanks @uncledave. The problem is, when you tap on that lozenge, there is no WaveGuide listed as an option…unless, as @Philandering_Bastard says, it got renamed as Wave Shaper after the manual had been written?

Fear2Stop

There’s a few such errors in the manual… it says to swipe right to add a new module , where you actually press a button lol

Robin2

@Fear2Stop said:
There’s a few such errors in the manual… it says to swipe right to add a new module , where you actually press a button lol

It’s all rather confusing! The AppStore description mentions both the Wave Shaper and the WaveGuide as if they’re two separate things so maybe it isn’t just a case of renaming as @Philandering_Bastard suggested?

uncledave

@Robin2 said:

@uncledave said:
I believe it's the output. The Karplus-Strong model is centered on a resonator, or waveguide. Where it says "KARPLUS" in green on a black lozenge, that's selected the Feedback input from itself. Those lozenges are the module input connections.

Thanks @uncledave. The problem is, when you tap on that lozenge, there is no WaveGuide listed as an option…unless, as @Philandering_Bastard says, it got renamed as Wave Shaper after the manual had been written?

No, it's the Karplus module itself, as I tried to explain. So, when it says "Karplus", it is already receiving feedback from the "Waveguide". If you read the whole manual section on the Karplus module, it implies that the Waveguide is the module itself.

Robin2

@uncledave said:

@Robin2 said:

@uncledave said:
I believe it's the output. The Karplus-Strong model is centered on a resonator, or waveguide. Where it says "KARPLUS" in green on a black lozenge, that's selected the Feedback input from itself. Those lozenges are the module input connections.

Thanks @uncledave. The problem is, when you tap on that lozenge, there is no WaveGuide listed as an option…unless, as @Philandering_Bastard says, it got renamed as Wave Shaper after the manual had been written?

No, it's the Karplus module itself, as I tried to explain. So, when it says "Karplus", it is already receiving feedback from the "Waveguide". If you read the whole manual section on the Karplus module, it implies that the Waveguide is the module itself.

Thanks for explaining @uncledave. I’ll take your word for it - just re-read the whole section again and it’s not at all clear that that’s what’s being referred to unless you know that’s the case beforehand. Why it refers to the WaveGuide, written in that special way, as if it’s a separate module is really confusing.

What’s the “waveguide with new “Swarm” mode “ referred to in the AppStore description then?

uncledave

@Robin2 said:

@uncledave said:

@Robin2 said:

@uncledave said:
I believe it's the output. The Karplus-Strong model is centered on a resonator, or waveguide. Where it says "KARPLUS" in green on a black lozenge, that's selected the Feedback input from itself. Those lozenges are the module input connections.

Thanks @uncledave. The problem is, when you tap on that lozenge, there is no WaveGuide listed as an option…unless, as @Philandering_Bastard says, it got renamed as Wave Shaper after the manual had been written?

No, it's the Karplus module itself, as I tried to explain. So, when it says "Karplus", it is already receiving feedback from the "Waveguide". If you read the whole manual section on the Karplus module, it implies that the Waveguide is the module itself.

Thanks for explaining @uncledave. I’ll take your word for it - just re-read the whole section again and it’s not at all clear that that’s what’s being referred to unless you know that’s the case beforehand. Why it refers to the WaveGuide, written in that special way, as if it’s a separate module is really confusing.

What’s the “waveguide with new “Swarm” mode “ referred to in the AppStore description then?

It says "3 detuned delays". Maybe that's what the "3X" switch enables.

Are you having trouble using the module? Have you tried some of the presets that include it? Karplus is not something you can just dive into and get results, like a Saw wave and a Filter. It tries to model an actual physical resonator, and there are a lot of possibilities. So it will take a bit of study to get good results.

Robin2

@uncledave said:

@Robin2 said:

@uncledave said:

@Robin2 said:

@uncledave said:
I believe it's the output. The Karplus-Strong model is centered on a resonator, or waveguide. Where it says "KARPLUS" in green on a black lozenge, that's selected the Feedback input from itself. Those lozenges are the module input connections.

Thanks @uncledave. The problem is, when you tap on that lozenge, there is no WaveGuide listed as an option…unless, as @Philandering_Bastard says, it got renamed as Wave Shaper after the manual had been written?

No, it's the Karplus module itself, as I tried to explain. So, when it says "Karplus", it is already receiving feedback from the "Waveguide". If you read the whole manual section on the Karplus module, it implies that the Waveguide is the module itself.

Thanks for explaining @uncledave. I’ll take your word for it - just re-read the whole section again and it’s not at all clear that that’s what’s being referred to unless you know that’s the case beforehand. Why it refers to the WaveGuide, written in that special way, as if it’s a separate module is really confusing.

What’s the “waveguide with new “Swarm” mode “ referred to in the AppStore description then?

It says "3 detuned delays". Maybe that's what the "3X" switch enables.

Are you having trouble using the module? Have you tried some of the presets that include it? Karplus is not something you can just dive into and get results, like a Saw wave and a Filter. It tries to model an actual physical resonator, and there are a lot of possibilities. So it will take a bit of study to get good results.

The 3x switch refers to its unison mode (according to the SoundforMore tutorial i watched) but i guess it could be what the AppStore description is referring to? No mention of a “Swarm” mode though on the Karplus interface. Hopefully @VirSyn will clarify?

Yeah, I’m certainly no expert but I’m familiar with Karplus Strong and have used it in other synths and apps. Been using it today in StringLab and that’s a breeze to get good results out of after watching the video tutorials.

Thanks for your help @uncledave, appreciate it. Cheers.

NeuM

This is what Google Bard says on the matter:

“WaveGuide: This effect emulates the physical behavior of sound waves traveling through physical structures like tubes, plates, and membranes. This allows you to create a wide range of timbres and textures, from metallic twangs and boomy resonations to ethereal pads and bell-like tones. The specific characteristics of the sound are shaped by various parameters like the waveguide material, shape, and size.

Swarm Mode: This adds a layer of complexity and movement to the waveguide sound. It introduces a set of virtual "particles" that interact with the waveguide in real-time. These particles can be influenced by parameters like density, velocity, and randomness, resulting in ever-evolving timbres and textures that shimmer, pulsate, and evolve over time. Imagine the sound morphing and swirling like a swarm of bees within the waveguide itself.

Together, the WaveGuide and Swarm Mode offer a potent combination for sound designers and musicians:

Highly customizable sound creation: The extensive set of parameters in both the waveguide and swarm sections allows you to sculpt sounds with a high degree of precision and detail. You can tailor the timbres to fit your specific needs, from subtle atmospheric textures to aggressive and in-your-face lead sounds.
Organic and evolving sounds: Unlike static samples or oscillators, the WaveGuide with Swarm Mode produces dynamic and ever-changing sounds that feel alive and responsive. This can add a unique character and depth to your music, especially for ambient and experimental genres.
Real-time control and performance: Both the waveguide and swarm sections offer a variety of modulation options, allowing you to manipulate the sound in real-time using MIDI controllers, LFOs, or even step sequencers. This lets you create expressive and dynamic performances that can take your music to the next level.”

Robin2

@NeuM said:
This is what Google Bard says on the matter:

“WaveGuide: This effect emulates the physical behavior of sound waves traveling through physical structures like tubes, plates, and membranes. This allows you to create a wide range of timbres and textures, from metallic twangs and boomy resonations to ethereal pads and bell-like tones. The specific characteristics of the sound are shaped by various parameters like the waveguide material, shape, and size.

Swarm Mode: This adds a layer of complexity and movement to the waveguide sound. It introduces a set of virtual "particles" that interact with the waveguide in real-time. These particles can be influenced by parameters like density, velocity, and randomness, resulting in ever-evolving timbres and textures that shimmer, pulsate, and evolve over time. Imagine the sound morphing and swirling like a swarm of bees within the waveguide itself.

Together, the WaveGuide and Swarm Mode offer a potent combination for sound designers and musicians:

Highly customizable sound creation: The extensive set of parameters in both the waveguide and swarm sections allows you to sculpt sounds with a high degree of precision and detail. You can tailor the timbres to fit your specific needs, from subtle atmospheric textures to aggressive and in-your-face lead sounds.
Organic and evolving sounds: Unlike static samples or oscillators, the WaveGuide with Swarm Mode produces dynamic and ever-changing sounds that feel alive and responsive. This can add a unique character and depth to your music, especially for ambient and experimental genres.
Real-time control and performance: Both the waveguide and swarm sections offer a variety of modulation options, allowing you to manipulate the sound in real-time using MIDI controllers, LFOs, or even step sequencers. This lets you create expressive and dynamic performances that can take your music to the next level.”

Interesting, thanks @NeuM, never thought of asking Bard or equivalent.

The one question it doesn’t answer: does Tera Pro have a waveguide module as the AppStore description says and if so, where is it? Or, as @uncledave says, if the Karplus module IS the waveguide, where is the Swarm mode?

Hopefully @VirSyn will see this at some point once the festivities have passed and will clarify things?

scrape

Maybe the Karplus changed it’s name at some point in development as that’s it as far as I’m aware.

Robin2

@scrape said:
Maybe the Karplus changed it’s name at some point in development as that’s it as far as I’m aware.

Thanks @scrape. Yeah, that may well be the case - you’re the second person to say that it is and i have no reason to disagree with either of you. The AppStore description mentions both the Karplus Strong module and having a waveguide separately though - if they are one and the same thing, it would really help to make that clear or just pick a name and stick with it throughout.

I’m just trying to my head around this synth and having things referred to by name which don’t actually exist in the app using that name makes it really difficult.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

uncledave

@tja said:

@Robin2 said:

@scrape said:
Maybe the Karplus changed it’s name at some point in development as that’s it as far as I’m aware.

Thanks @scrape. Yeah, that may well be the case - you’re the second person to say that it is and i have no reason to disagree with either of you. The AppStore description mentions both the Karplus Strong module and having a waveguide separately though - if they are one and the same thing, it would really help to make that clear or just pick a name and stick with it throughout.

I’m just trying to my head around this synth and having things referred to by name which don’t actually exist in the app using that name makes it really difficult.

https://www.virsyn.net/manuals/Tera Pro UM.pdf

6 mentions of "WaveGuide"

Yes. I believe that is what led to the original post, quoting a sentence from the manual. The description of the Karplus-Strong module mentions "WaveGuide" several times, but never says that it is the WaveGuide.

Robin2

@tja said:

@Robin2 said:

@scrape said:
Maybe the Karplus changed it’s name at some point in development as that’s it as far as I’m aware.

Thanks @scrape. Yeah, that may well be the case - you’re the second person to say that it is and i have no reason to disagree with either of you. The AppStore description mentions both the Karplus Strong module and having a waveguide separately though - if they are one and the same thing, it would really help to make that clear or just pick a name and stick with it throughout.

I’m just trying to my head around this synth and having things referred to by name which don’t actually exist in the app using that name makes it really difficult.

https://www.virsyn.net/manuals/Tera Pro UM.pdf

6 mentions of "WaveGuide"

Yes, and now find it in the app!

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Robin2

@tja said:

@Robin2 said:

@tja said:

@Robin2 said:

@scrape said:
Maybe the Karplus changed it’s name at some point in development as that’s it as far as I’m aware.

Thanks @scrape. Yeah, that may well be the case - you’re the second person to say that it is and i have no reason to disagree with either of you. The AppStore description mentions both the Karplus Strong module and having a waveguide separately though - if they are one and the same thing, it would really help to make that clear or just pick a name and stick with it throughout.

I’m just trying to my head around this synth and having things referred to by name which don’t actually exist in the app using that name makes it really difficult.

https://www.virsyn.net/manuals/Tera Pro UM.pdf

6 mentions of "WaveGuide"

Yes, and now find it in the app!

From the manual:

This module is the basic building block for physical modelling synthesis. First of all it sums the signals from its two audio inputs (INPUT and FEEDBACK), and is attenuated by the input knob and the feedback knob settings.

In the physical model the source for the FEEDBACK input is usually the WaveGuide output simulating the reflection of the travelling wave on both ends of a string or tube. But you can choose any audio source if you want to use this module for other purposes.

FEEDBACK INPUT

Second input for the delay line. The input level can be adjusted with the feedback slider. For physical modelling synthesis the WaveGuide output has to be patched to this input.

So, you use either or both of INPUT and FEEDBACK.
And FEEDBACK is the output of the WaveGuide.

So, what else to know?!? 😳😳😳

Dial in FEEDBACK and drop INPUT and you have pure WaveGuide as base for your synthesis.

That's how I read the manual.

EDIT: I added the "FEEDBACK" paragraph from the manual, which makes this even more clear.

But please note, that this is just dry from the manual 😅

That’s all well and good…once you know that the ‘WaveGuide output’ refers to selecting ‘Karplus’ as the Karplus Loop Input - WaveGuide is not listed as an option hence why i was confused and asked the question here.

Maybe to more experienced users, Waveguide and Karplus Strong are synonymous and so the description in the manual makes immediate sense and they would know what to select in the absence of waveguide as an option? I didn’t know that and thought the manual was referring to a module which seemed to be missing from the app.

Personally I think the manual would be far more helpful if only it said, “ For physical modelling synthesis the WaveGuide output (select Karplus) has to be patched to this input.”. If it simply added those two words, i would have fully understood and this thread would have been unnecessary.

NeuM

@Robin2 said:

@tja said:

@Robin2 said:

@tja said:

@Robin2 said:

@scrape said:
Maybe the Karplus changed it’s name at some point in development as that’s it as far as I’m aware.

Thanks @scrape. Yeah, that may well be the case - you’re the second person to say that it is and i have no reason to disagree with either of you. The AppStore description mentions both the Karplus Strong module and having a waveguide separately though - if they are one and the same thing, it would really help to make that clear or just pick a name and stick with it throughout.

I’m just trying to my head around this synth and having things referred to by name which don’t actually exist in the app using that name makes it really difficult.

https://www.virsyn.net/manuals/Tera Pro UM.pdf

6 mentions of "WaveGuide"

Yes, and now find it in the app!

From the manual:

This module is the basic building block for physical modelling synthesis. First of all it sums the signals from its two audio inputs (INPUT and FEEDBACK), and is attenuated by the input knob and the feedback knob settings.

In the physical model the source for the FEEDBACK input is usually the WaveGuide output simulating the reflection of the travelling wave on both ends of a string or tube. But you can choose any audio source if you want to use this module for other purposes.

FEEDBACK INPUT

Second input for the delay line. The input level can be adjusted with the feedback slider. For physical modelling synthesis the WaveGuide output has to be patched to this input.

So, you use either or both of INPUT and FEEDBACK.
And FEEDBACK is the output of the WaveGuide.

So, what else to know?!? 😳😳😳

Dial in FEEDBACK and drop INPUT and you have pure WaveGuide as base for your synthesis.

That's how I read the manual.

EDIT: I added the "FEEDBACK" paragraph from the manual, which makes this even more clear.

But please note, that this is just dry from the manual 😅

That’s all well and good…once you know that the ‘WaveGuide output’ refers to selecting ‘Karplus’ as the Karplus Loop Input - WaveGuide is not listed as an option hence why i was confused and asked the question here.

Maybe to more experienced users, Waveguide and Karplus Strong are synonymous and so the description in the manual makes immediate sense and they would know what to select in the absence of waveguide as an option? I didn’t know that and thought the manual was referring to a module which seemed to be missing from the app.

Personally I think the manual would be far more helpful if only it said, “ For physical modelling synthesis the WaveGuide output (select Karplus) has to be patched to this input.”. If it simply added those two words, i would have fully understood and this thread would have been unnecessary.

I think Harry Gohs is a one man shop, so you really must cut him a little slack for overlooking something now and then.

Robin2

@NeuM said:

@Robin2 said:

@tja said:

@Robin2 said:

@tja said:

@Robin2 said:

@scrape said:
Maybe the Karplus changed it’s name at some point in development as that’s it as far as I’m aware.

Thanks @scrape. Yeah, that may well be the case - you’re the second person to say that it is and i have no reason to disagree with either of you. The AppStore description mentions both the Karplus Strong module and having a waveguide separately though - if they are one and the same thing, it would really help to make that clear or just pick a name and stick with it throughout.

I’m just trying to my head around this synth and having things referred to by name which don’t actually exist in the app using that name makes it really difficult.

https://www.virsyn.net/manuals/Tera Pro UM.pdf

6 mentions of "WaveGuide"

Yes, and now find it in the app!

From the manual:

This module is the basic building block for physical modelling synthesis. First of all it sums the signals from its two audio inputs (INPUT and FEEDBACK), and is attenuated by the input knob and the feedback knob settings.

In the physical model the source for the FEEDBACK input is usually the WaveGuide output simulating the reflection of the travelling wave on both ends of a string or tube. But you can choose any audio source if you want to use this module for other purposes.

FEEDBACK INPUT

Second input for the delay line. The input level can be adjusted with the feedback slider. For physical modelling synthesis the WaveGuide output has to be patched to this input.

So, you use either or both of INPUT and FEEDBACK.
And FEEDBACK is the output of the WaveGuide.

So, what else to know?!? 😳😳😳

Dial in FEEDBACK and drop INPUT and you have pure WaveGuide as base for your synthesis.

That's how I read the manual.

EDIT: I added the "FEEDBACK" paragraph from the manual, which makes this even more clear.

But please note, that this is just dry from the manual 😅

That’s all well and good…once you know that the ‘WaveGuide output’ refers to selecting ‘Karplus’ as the Karplus Loop Input - WaveGuide is not listed as an option hence why i was confused and asked the question here.

Maybe to more experienced users, Waveguide and Karplus Strong are synonymous and so the description in the manual makes immediate sense and they would know what to select in the absence of waveguide as an option? I didn’t know that and thought the manual was referring to a module which seemed to be missing from the app.

Personally I think the manual would be far more helpful if only it said, “ For physical modelling synthesis the WaveGuide output (select Karplus) has to be patched to this input.”. If it simply added those two words, i would have fully understood and this thread would have been unnecessary.

I think Harry Gohs is a one man shop, so you really must cut him a little slack for overlooking something now and then.

Oh, i absolutely cut him all the slack in the world, no doubt about that. Isn’t it better that these things get raised though? So that he gets user feedback?

Tera Pro is an amazing synth but it certainly could be more intuitive to use (I’ve seen posts where you say as much yourself @NeuM) and if Harry wants it to be as widely appreciated (and purchased) as possible, he surely needs to hear feedback from all levels and types of user. If it is initially impenetrable to all but expert users, it’s no good him hearing only praise from those expert users if he wants it to be as successful as possible overall.

I had a problem understanding something in the app after reading the manual and suggested a two word revision which would help clarify things - hopefully that is useful feedback for Harry?

NeuM

@Robin2 said:

@NeuM said:

@Robin2 said:

@tja said:

@Robin2 said:

@tja said:

@Robin2 said:

@scrape said:
Maybe the Karplus changed it’s name at some point in development as that’s it as far as I’m aware.

Thanks @scrape. Yeah, that may well be the case - you’re the second person to say that it is and i have no reason to disagree with either of you. The AppStore description mentions both the Karplus Strong module and having a waveguide separately though - if they are one and the same thing, it would really help to make that clear or just pick a name and stick with it throughout.

I’m just trying to my head around this synth and having things referred to by name which don’t actually exist in the app using that name makes it really difficult.

https://www.virsyn.net/manuals/Tera Pro UM.pdf

6 mentions of "WaveGuide"

Yes, and now find it in the app!

From the manual:

This module is the basic building block for physical modelling synthesis. First of all it sums the signals from its two audio inputs (INPUT and FEEDBACK), and is attenuated by the input knob and the feedback knob settings.

In the physical model the source for the FEEDBACK input is usually the WaveGuide output simulating the reflection of the travelling wave on both ends of a string or tube. But you can choose any audio source if you want to use this module for other purposes.

FEEDBACK INPUT

Second input for the delay line. The input level can be adjusted with the feedback slider. For physical modelling synthesis the WaveGuide output has to be patched to this input.

So, you use either or both of INPUT and FEEDBACK.
And FEEDBACK is the output of the WaveGuide.

So, what else to know?!? 😳😳😳

Dial in FEEDBACK and drop INPUT and you have pure WaveGuide as base for your synthesis.

That's how I read the manual.

EDIT: I added the "FEEDBACK" paragraph from the manual, which makes this even more clear.

But please note, that this is just dry from the manual 😅

That’s all well and good…once you know that the ‘WaveGuide output’ refers to selecting ‘Karplus’ as the Karplus Loop Input - WaveGuide is not listed as an option hence why i was confused and asked the question here.

Maybe to more experienced users, Waveguide and Karplus Strong are synonymous and so the description in the manual makes immediate sense and they would know what to select in the absence of waveguide as an option? I didn’t know that and thought the manual was referring to a module which seemed to be missing from the app.

Personally I think the manual would be far more helpful if only it said, “ For physical modelling synthesis the WaveGuide output (select Karplus) has to be patched to this input.”. If it simply added those two words, i would have fully understood and this thread would have been unnecessary.

I think Harry Gohs is a one man shop, so you really must cut him a little slack for overlooking something now and then.

Oh, i absolutely cut him all the slack in the world, no doubt about that. Isn’t it better that these things get raised though? So that he gets user feedback?

Tera Pro is an amazing synth but it certainly could be more intuitive to use (I’ve seen posts where you say as much yourself @NeuM) and if Harry wants it to be as widely appreciated (and purchased) as possible, he surely needs to hear feedback from all levels and types of user. If it is initially impenetrable to all but expert users, it’s no good him hearing only praise from those expert users if he wants it to be as successful as possible overall.

I had a problem understanding something in the app after reading the manual and suggested a two word revision which would help clarify things - hopefully that is useful feedback for Harry?

Feedback is great. How else would things ever be improved from the user's perspective?

VirSyn

Just looked through the manual and the App description and it's really quite confusing...
The WaveGuide was simply renamed to KARPLUS because I though this name is more well known and will be less confusing.
The Swarm mode is ( currently ) just 3 randomly detuned delay lines instead of only one in standard KarplusStrong synthesis. The Detuning can be set with the "SPREAD" parameter.
I have updated the manual and the App description available soon because the next big update is on the road maybe nearer than you think!

scrape

Oh wow. Exciting…

Luxthor

👁️👁️

Robin2

@VirSyn said:
Just looked through the manual and the App description and it's really quite confusing...
The WaveGuide was simply renamed to KARPLUS because I though this name is more well known and will be less confusing.
The Swarm mode is ( currently ) just 3 randomly detuned delay lines instead of only one in standard KarplusStrong synthesis. The Detuning can be set with the "SPREAD" parameter.
I have updated the manual and the App description available soon because the next big update is on the road maybe nearer than you think!

Brilliant, thanks for clarifying Harry (confirming what others have said). Glad you agree that the manual and AppStore descriptions were confusing and will be adjusted accordingly.

Very excited to see what the next big update will be! Best wishes for 2024. Cheers.

Paulo164

@VirSyn said:
I have updated the manual and the App description available soon because the next big update is on the road maybe nearer than you think!

Granular module ?
AudioLayer instrument player ?
😜🥰