Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
What is Loopy Pro? — Loopy Pro is a powerful, flexible, and intuitive live looper, sampler, clip launcher and DAW for iPhone and iPad. At its core, it allows you to record and layer sounds in real-time to create complex musical arrangements. But it doesn’t stop there—Loopy Pro offers advanced tools to customize your workflow, build dynamic performance setups, and create a seamless connection between instruments, effects, and external gear.
Use it for live looping, sequencing, arranging, mixing, and much more. Whether you're a live performer, a producer, or just experimenting with sound, Loopy Pro helps you take control of your creative process.
Download on the App StoreLoopy Pro is your all-in-one musical toolkit. Try it for free today.
Midi controller pain (AUM)
i was never really interested in using midi controller on ipad. And I was never a great fan of universal controller anyway, because you quickly forget what knob is what when using multiple software etc. And the ones with display for each knob are usually too big etc. I just stumbled over the really neat Faderfox EC4 Controller and in theory it‘s pretty much the controller i was looking for.
BUT
after i did set this thing up with AUM i figured out that AUM does not respond to relative/continious controller. I‘m aware that most apps doesn‘t do this (or don‘t have even a learn function) but somehow i thought that @j_liljedahl just used his magic and bam. Easy. Not? Is it not possible at all to implement this in AUM?
Or Is there anything i can do to work arround this? Midi apps?
Comments
I am under the impression that faderfox knobs can be set up to send absolute midi
I see lots of mentions on the web that you can configure the EC4 to do absolute or relative midi cc
of course, it‘s the default setting anyway. But i need at least something with pickup mode to avoid jumping values. Which is exactly my problem, forgot to mention that.
This thread has link to streambyter script that might be what you want. I'd be surprised if there's no Mozaic script out there for this, maybe a search would turn one up.
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/35445/mozaic-streambyter-script-to-read-from-incremental-encoders
Pickup mode is basically impossible to emulate unless 100% of the control is from the controller. As soon as you adjust something on the screen or load a new session or preset, you're screwed.
Besides the problem, how do you like the EC4? I’ve had my eye on it for years now
I wrote a Mozaic script that can help somewhat with controllers like the EC4 in absolute mode. It keeps track of the last values sent through it, and can restore those to the controller on session load. 100% of the control has to be done with the controller though.
No! Thats just a ridiculous crutch for something that the biggest players in the field should already have been implemented by now.
Looking at you AUM, and you Drambo.
I discussed it over and over and over in the in the Drambo forum and the AUM discord.
They are not interested in MIDI feedback which is required for Encoders or software like TouchOSC to work properly.
But there is one shining star on the firmament: Loopy Pro
Loopy Pro has fully implemented MIDI feedback.
When I change parameters that are MIDI learned to my Faderfox, the encoders receive the changed values.
I load a project or change a patch in a software synthesizer, all encoders get updated. No jumping.
I can not understand why the developers of AUM and Drambo don't see the power of hardware controllers with encoders or custom surfaces with TouchOSC. But I also don't beg anymore. It is was it is.
Loopy Pro is amazing.
@HarlekinX . I don’t think it is a matter of those developers not understanding the value. It is likely a matter of the time necessary to implement and the time they have available and allocating it.
I know ... and maybe
The AUM developer answered in Discord on Feb 7 2022:
And I had multiple and lengthy discussions in the Drambo forum that left me thinking that there is no interest or understanding.
Therefore: It is what it is.
So, AUM’s developer is interested in adding it but hasn’t found the time.
And Drambo handles relative mode which is what encoders typically use. So, I really don’t understand the harsh assessment.
I think the gripe is about midi controller feedback, not relative mode.
Given that only a tiny fraction of controllers handle feedback anyway, I can understand why it gets a lower priority than other features.
At the same time I why people that do have such controllers, or hope to build control surfaces in apps like TouchOSC, feel so cheated though. It's tough being marginalized. But the reality is it's a niche need and gets de-prioritized out of necessity, not out of prejudice.
I understand the disappointment...I don't understand treating the lack of the features being treated as ignorance/callousness on the part of the developers..especially given the ludicrously low prices we pay.
A bit of venting is understandable though.
Exactly
Yes, maybe not cheated but it makes it somehow useless.
It's love and frustration.
I love AUM and Drambo.
AUM ist the fastest to build something and Drambo is an incredible all in one system with a great sequencer.
Loopy, AUM, Drambo. All have their strengths and usages.
But when I want to use my controllers I can not use AUM and Drambo
Thank you!
And the thread title is "Midi controller pain" and I also feel that pain, for a long time.
That's an easy one. Switch to Loopy Pro and all your problems are solved. 😎
Just kidding, of course. Sort of. 😉
This is the way 🙂
@HarlekinX
MIDI controller value feedback has been discussed long ago on the forums and you might have missed two things:
I believe that one serious complication is the variety of ways controllers expect feedback to their encoders. Loopy Pro has taken a big step to implement most different controller types, but that effort will need to continue into the future as new models, and new manufacturers, appear. Some desktop DAWs provide a scripting language, and controller makers can provide scripts adapting their controllers to the DAW, but that only works for the most popular DAWs. Some sort of univeral system would be ideal, but that's very unlikely.
Controller feedback and controller integration are kind of two different subjects. Simple controller feedback is no more complicated than having a controller that makes use of the same feedback supplied to it that it supplies. For example, sending CC 20 and updating it's own LED ring, and responding to CC20 and updating the ring if it gets feedback from an app. Scripting and variable responses aren't needed here. Midi Fighter Twister and TouchOSC are good examples of controllers that can work with simple feedback.
Controller integration is another level. For example, a Launchpad automatically receiving information about the number of colors of loops, triggering them, and changing colors, flashing, etc.. Those require tighter integration and either solely by the developer (Loopy Pro), or through user scriptable extensions (Atom 2).
Loopy does a great job with midi feedback for any controller that can make use of it. Controller integration is limited to controllers are capable of it and that have been specifically supported by Michael.
☝️
Sir 🫡
And as simple as it is in theory, it is a hassle because lots of devices don’t actually behave well when feedback is sent their way.
Aside from people jumping to the conclusion that the app is at fault for unexpected behavior, the solution is as simple as an option to turn it off, preferably by default, isn't it? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand the hassle factor you're referring to.
The hassle factor is that there is not a surefire way for a developer to set it up so that it just works with every device. And in those cases where it is”just” a matter of a user re-configuring something: it is sometimes not obvious even if you are knowledgeable what needs re-configuring…and a lot of people don’t seem to know how to troubleshoot which can leave them unsatisfied.
Are you of the opinion that Loopy Pro’s implementation is problematic and/or that it was a major hassle? This is a sincere question. It seems to me it’s quite effective and I never had the impression it was a huge feat to implement. You’ve been way more intimately involved than I have from the very beginning, so I acknowledge that I could be missing a lot.
I’m speaking strictly of simple controller feedback, not higher level integration such as Launchpad support.
Not that this is a critical topic. Those that can realistically benefit from controller feedback are a truly tiny slice of the user base. You just got my curiosity up. Feel free to ignore my question.
I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying.
I am saying that for the developer implementing feedback is a hassle and leaves plenty of cases where users need support to get it sorted out because not all devices respond to it in the same way.
I think Loopy Pro does an excellent job and it was not trivial work for Michael and there are plenty of cases where it doesn’t work as users expect and either needs to be turned off or the other device needs configuring.
My point is that there is no standard simple to implement solution that just works that a developer can implement.
I can’t argue with you about the support and expectations aspects judging from questions on Slack and Discord. Defaulting feedback to off seems like it would be wisest if that’s no already the case.
My point was that "simple controller feedback" is not necessarily enough. My Xtouch Mini implements two "layers", selectable by buttons. In Layer A, the encoders send CCs 1-8 on channel 11, and they respond to simple feedback. In Layer B, the encoders send CCs 11-18, but they respond to feedback on CCs 1-8, same as Layer A. Also, the controller does not send a message when the operator switches layers; you need to detect the layer from the different CCs and notes transmitted.
The 16 Xtouch Mini lighted buttons are even more confusing. They transmit notes 8-23 for Layer A, 32- 47 for Layer B, all on channel 11. But the lights are always controlled by notes 0-15 on channel 1. The note velocity determines the light state (off, on, flashing). Also, the lights turn on on button press, off on release, so the controller needs to set them on button release (note off). This scheme is not simple by any stretch.
So, a dev wishing to offer feedback needs to decide whether to implement only simple feedback, and ignore the other possibilities, or to attempt a wider-ranging implementation.
I want to point one thing out: i‘m NOT asking for proper feedback sending to the controller, i don‘t care too much if the values shown on display are correct or not. But jumping values is extremely annoying, dangerous even when you have something like filter resonance on a knob or tape echo feedback etc. It really should belong to a software like AUM were you can basically control EVERYTHING via midi. But it‘s good to read that @j_liljedahl at least have it on his list already. I would pay for it as IAP if necessary 😁
Thanks, i gonna take a look at it. My plan is to do 100% controller anyway. But maybe this script is not even necessary cause you can save snapshots in the controller as well 🤔
I love it, it’s so flexibel and powerful (256 knobs and same amount of buttons in one session. You can save 16 sessions) but still so small and you always know where you are cause of the display. Programming the knobs on the unit is easy, even naming things is quick. I don’t use the desktop editor. And there was a huge update in december which improved it MUCH further. My favorite part is the link function. With a button/encoder push you can i.e instant switch to another group of 16 knobs. That means, you can build a „quick edit“ page for a complex synth with all basic parts in one group. Like filter, Osc ect. And when you push i.e. on „cutoff“ you open the group witch all controls regarding filter etc.And one push brings you back to the main page.
Here‘s an example how i started to use it. Thats an AUM channel as send fx plugged into my hardware mixer. From left to right four slots with fx. Slot number 3 is outer space with 4 basic functions. One push on“space“ opens much more controls from outer space. You get the point, i love this feature 😁 AND i already did test if my (12 mini) phone can run my AUM project (two channel as send FX on a hardware mixer) as well with lowest latency (32 samples) and 96 khz. Yes, it can and it looks like i can configure it in a way that i only look on my phone once (when i open AUM and load the session) and then hide it behind whatever, you really work with it just like with real hardware. You can even switch fx presets with the controller (did not try it yet) .i‘m about to sell all my hardware pedals now 😂
on the downside:The knobs are a little on the stiff side (i guess they will lose up over time though), the acceleration options could be further improved for my taste. It works but it‘s not“awesome“. And even if the build quality is good, it doesn‘t feel like 350€ to me (zero knob wobbling though) Metal case would be great.
@Crabman wow that seems super cool and useful. The price has always been a deterrent but…that’s just so cool!