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UPDATED } HELP with: Clean /Smooth /Professional ...and simple..... Piano Backing Part
Hi,
Using Atom Roll and Ravenscroft plugins; in Loopy Pro. I have a super simple I, IV part in 4 that I'm using for background. HOWEVER......
It sounds, how shall I say........ "stiff", "non-resonant", "not smooth", "fake", and I might say even "tinty". In Ravenscroft, there's a reverb fx, and it is on.
I also noticed that the stereo signal is skewed to one side?
I am aiming for realistic, simple, smooth (not percussive), even.......
H E L P!!
I recorded the part with my AKAI MRK Mini, as suggested.
In Atom Roll, I turned quantization off (on recording), and Snap to Grid off as I did a touch of editing.
Just SLIGHTLY better........ I'm so frustrated. This is 2024 and it take uh, what 6 hours to make a 2 chord loop on the iPad that's a backing track.
===>>>> See my post below with the new recording.
Comments
The chords need some humanization. All notes are exactly on time and exactly the same velocity. Real playing doesn't work that way. Also the velocity is probably too high. I'm assuming you programmed this in rather than playing it in. It's simple enough that you should be able to play it in with a little practice, preferably from a hardware controller. That will help a lot. I would turn quantizing off, then use Atom 2's quantizing tool to dial in some quantization (at less than 100% strength) afterward if needed. Atom also has a good velocity tool. I'd use that to reduce the overall velocity, and definitely to add in some velocity variation ("chaos").
Or, if you have Mozaic, you could run the existing Atom 2 output through a humanizer such as Ranbo. That way you can fiddle with the various form of randomization.
But the biggest thing is to start from a live performance if possible, and fix up as needed.
I've no clue on the offset problem.
For the offset, is Ravenscroft trying to give the performer's perspective, low notes to the left? It does seem a little extreme, though. Does Ravenscroft offer different virtual mic positions? Otherwise, you might need an external pan operator; easy in AUM, not sure what platform you're on.
I thought about that too, but it’s not spread like a stereo piano. It’s panned consistently all wrong. That’s audacity in the screenshot, so I’m guessing some problem in the recording process if it wasn’t just copied to a desktop.
I second this. Even for a non -pianist it shouldn’t take too long to learn, especially if you play it with two hands.
Same. Also add in some transition notes and move that bottom D up to F#
Thank you everyone for your input!!!
I have a 4th Gen iPad (2021), and I am using Loopy Pro for the host.
QUESTION: In Atom Roll..... is the "SWING" function equivalent to humanization, or is there no real option but to record it.
I do have an AKAI MPK Mini (like a 1 octave keyboard); and yeah, I can play two chords. Since I already have the MIDI notes in Atom Roll....... I was hoping I can select all and press a "humanize" button or something.
"offset" = imbalance in stereo L vs. R levels
Any thoughts on how to fix this?
Swing is just a fixed offset of quantized eight notes so that the offbeat eights are delayed. It isn’t humanization if “real” swing.
@Vmusic : I wonder if you accidentally had the balance set wrong in the mixer? Is the imbalance reproducible?
And how did you export the file get it over to Audacity?
@espiegel123
I actually recorded the MIDI part using my AKAI MPK Mini, and the Left and Right were even.
I send the recorded output file from Loopy Pro on the iPad via email to my PC. I opened the output file on my PC in Audacity to "view" the results.
***NEW OUTPUT FILE*****
OK - So I recorded this, per the suggestion using my AKAI MPK mini. While it's not like the first audio, where I used my iPad pen to write in the notes.............it still SUCKS!!!
I'm frustrated. How have I spent 6 hours creating a four bar loop of 2 simple piano chords???? and it sounds like crap.
How is it 2024, and there's not an app that lets me tell it the BMP, the chords, the instrument and have it generate the MIDI or the audio.........AAAArrrrggggghhhhh
ATTACHED: (or inserted) the new Audio File and the images of my Atom Roll.
Is there a BETTER MIDI editor than Atom Roll? Something with a "humanize" function? How can I control the velocity in Atom Roll? Can I control the velocity per note?
Thanks
I am not sure how that relates to what I said. If you accidentally had the balance knob set wrong in Loopy Pro or had some MIDI CC that changed the balance that might explain the problem in your audio. You If you just have Atom controlling Ravenscroft in Loopy Pro, and repeat the process you originally used, is the audio mis-balanced?
Was it mis-balanced when you listened to it in Loopy Pro?
It's fairly easy to accidentally pan a clip when you're adjusting its volume. That's my guess.
@Vmusic, did you read my suggestion about trying the Ranbo humanizing script? You'd send the Atom 2 output to Mozaic, then Mozaic to the piano app.
Another suggestion: Since you're using pretty generic chords, maybe The Chordulator Mozaic script could help you. Just play the root note of the chords you want, not the chords, and dial in a tiny bit of strum or timing randomization, velocity randomization, and maybe just a tiny touch of probability if needed. I've been able to get some pretty realistic piano parts that way, and the nice thing is you only need the root note and you can experiment around until you get something that sounds good.
Did you turn off quantization when recording the chords in? Doesn't look like it. The idea is to record unquantized, then dial in some quantization, or adjust individual notes, if needed to fix up bad timing.
[Edit] Actually, that sounds much better, and looking more carefully at it now, I do see it's not quantized. The panning problem is gone too. Sorry, I didn't listen to the new sample before writing the first draft of this post.
Did you read about how to apply humanization (chaos) to the velocity? Look in the "Process" menu. That's where tools for some of what you're looking for are.
Velocity editing of individual notes is kind of clumsy in Atom 2. Open the Process > velocity panel, then select a note or notes. Now you can move the velocity slider and it will only affect the selected notes.
I'm not sure what you're expecting from this clip. It is a static, repetitive piano part. On their own, most backing track components would sound pretty boring. Everything changes in a mix.
Maybe you just need to add some ambience, a tiny bit of delay, or something to help you feel better about it.
If all that fails to be satisfying, you may need to break up the repetitiveness a bit by arpeggiating a few of the chord hits, or pedaling a root bass note an octave down on the downbeat and holding it across a few chord hits, or whatever it takes to add some variation.
Much ado about nothing.
Very interesting, tho I’m not sure why.
It's sad. It's 2024, and I can't make a simple piano part with two, count em' two' chords sound decent.
Well, those struggles inspired me.
@Vmusic I don’t know why you need exactly those chords and this “simple” voicing, depending on what your arrangement is you could elaborate a little. The piano sound is ok.
I am a violin player. I am creating a simple "backing track". This particular backing track is just a I, IV chord going back and forth (pun intended) between those two chords. Then..... I start the host running (Loopy Pro), and then Atom Roll plays the MIDI notes, which are sent to Ravenscroft AUV3 piano..... and the background track is playing. I play some totally rocked-out space jam on top. Ur uh..... something like that.
That's the idea/usage.
I know, I know, I know..... it seems like imma complainer. I will not apologize. I can a press button on a website and get about anything made in China at my doorstep by tomorrow night. Needless to say, there are some super cool iOS music capabilities.... but there's a lot that can be improved.
In Cubase 12, they have a "chord track". You type in the names of the chords (you can select them from a list to get the variants like 7th, diminished, etc.); then you "point" the chord track to a MIDI instrument and that instrument plays those chords. Atom Roll is not bad software, especially for the price..... but it's barely a start. iOS creators should demand more .
@Vmusic . Atom isn’t intended for people looking for auto-accompaniment. If that is what you want, look for an whose perhaps is doing what you want.
I’m super not familiar with that way of doing, but despite my limited understanding of those things, I am pretty sure there are apps that can do that I IV loop for you with small variations in timing, velocities, and even controls for the piano sound. That would be maybe more useful for what you are doing than just a simple pattern loop.
@Vmusic - I hope you don't take this the wrong way. It's meant to be helpful.
People make suggestions when you ask questions, then it doesn't seem like you actually try many of them out. Maybe you do and they don't address what you're looking for, but you don't indicate that. Then you come back with complaints about other things you've tried that didn't solve the problem ... and they sound like the same problems the ignored(?) suggestions were meant to address.
For instance, you just described something that Cubase does that sounds very similar to a suggestion I made earlier.
There are no magic bullets on iOS. I don't care if it's 2024 or not. Sometimes you have to experiment and fail a few (or a lot of) times. Or stick with desktop.
Sorry if I've overstepped.