I always thought devs whose apps disappear due to Developer Program payment issues are idiots

wim

Back on topic ...

@SevenSystems - I don't know if PayPal is an option for you, but for me it's a really painless way to send and receive money. Once a bank account or credit card is successfully linked, sending money is easy. I think you may even be able to pay your Apple developer fee with it (could be wrong on that point).

SevenSystems

@tja said:

@SevenSystems said:
I've just seen the strangest thing, it kinda ties in with this thread.

So, I get it, everyone's extremely paranoid and I need all these "security" shenenigans in order to be able to access or even view my money. Fine.

So, in order to log in to my bank website on my desktop computer, I need another device (my phone) to "proove" that it's me. OK, sorted.

However, I just actually used my bank's iPhone app properly for the first time (so far I've only ever used it for the "security device" thing) to check my transactions.

IT LET ME STRAIGHT IN AND DID NOT ASK ME TO LOG IN TO MY DESKTOP COMPUTER TO "PROOVE" THAT IT'S ME!

WTF?

So, I need to PROOVE that it's me when I want to do online banking on my desktop, but I do NOT need to PROOVE that it's me when I want to do online banking on my PHONE?

That's insane. I don't see any kind of logic in this. Is my desktop computer somehow less "trustworthy" than my phone?

Now, that is easily explained.

Your device has a unique ID, probably another unique ID for your SIM card.
This allows to make sure that this is your device - but your desktop does not have that.

I don't understand and have never understood any of this.

I am uniquely identified by the fact that I know my login and password. There's nothing to add. I grew up in the 90s, where this was the only piece of information you ever needed to use any service. I've never in my life been "hacked". What has changed since the 90s?

But I hate this "second device" required regime as much as possible.

Thank you for the mental support 😄

SevenSystems

@wim said:
Back on topic ...

@SevenSystems - I don't know if PayPal is an option for you, but for me it's a really painless way to send and receive money. Once a bank account or credit card is successfully linked, sending money is easy. I think you may even be able to pay your Apple developer fee with it (could be wrong on that point).

Funny that you mention it! Yes, I've just rediscovered it on a whim a few weeks ago (I didn't even remember I had an account). Some random service I use once a month had a new "PayPal" button. Clicked, entered password, paid. No questions asked. THANKS PAYPAL for bringing back the 90s! (why are they "allowed" to do this? I mean, all this bullshit is probably due to EU regulations or something, and they can't be exempt...)

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

wim

@SevenSystems said:

@wim said:
Back on topic ...

@SevenSystems - I don't know if PayPal is an option for you, but for me it's a really painless way to send and receive money. Once a bank account or credit card is successfully linked, sending money is easy. I think you may even be able to pay your Apple developer fee with it (could be wrong on that point).

Funny that you mention it! Yes, I've just rediscovered it on a whim a few weeks ago (I didn't even remember I had an account). Some random service I use once a month had a new "PayPal" button. Clicked, entered password, paid. No questions asked. THANKS PAYPAL for bringing back the 90s! (why are they "allowed" to do this? I mean, all this bullshit is probably due to EU regulations or something, and they can't be exempt...)

They allow all kinds of stuff that could land careless people in trouble. Being a careful person, I appreciate the choice to do as I please.

SevenSystems

@tja said:

@SevenSystems said:

@tja said:

@SevenSystems said:
I've just seen the strangest thing, it kinda ties in with this thread.

So, I get it, everyone's extremely paranoid and I need all these "security" shenenigans in order to be able to access or even view my money. Fine.

So, in order to log in to my bank website on my desktop computer, I need another device (my phone) to "proove" that it's me. OK, sorted.

However, I just actually used my bank's iPhone app properly for the first time (so far I've only ever used it for the "security device" thing) to check my transactions.

IT LET ME STRAIGHT IN AND DID NOT ASK ME TO LOG IN TO MY DESKTOP COMPUTER TO "PROOVE" THAT IT'S ME!

WTF?

So, I need to PROOVE that it's me when I want to do online banking on my desktop, but I do NOT need to PROOVE that it's me when I want to do online banking on my PHONE?

That's insane. I don't see any kind of logic in this. Is my desktop computer somehow less "trustworthy" than my phone?

Now, that is easily explained.

Your device has a unique ID, probably another unique ID for your SIM card.
This allows to make sure that this is your device - but your desktop does not have that.

I don't understand and have never understood any of this.

I am uniquely identified by the fact that I know my login and password. There's nothing to add. I grew up in the 90s, where this was the only piece of information you ever needed to use any service. I've never in my life been "hacked". What has changed since the 90s?

Sadly, no.

Nowadays, there are so many security holes and bugs and exploits and providers who have bad security.
Anything that is about money - like banks - is even REQUIRED to use some additional factor, like OTP, a certificate file or a physical token.

A mobile device can be such an additional factor by itself, like I explained.

But I get your arguments 😉

You also have to take my utterings with a few grains of salt... I know there are different levels of security needed for different scenarios. But I am all for freedom of choice, and ANY and ALL of these measures should be OPTIONAL. They can be enabled by default for "John User", but please, me as an expert™ I'd like to be able to choose to turn them off kthx!

SevenSystems

@wim said:

@SevenSystems said:

@wim said:
Back on topic ...

@SevenSystems - I don't know if PayPal is an option for you, but for me it's a really painless way to send and receive money. Once a bank account or credit card is successfully linked, sending money is easy. I think you may even be able to pay your Apple developer fee with it (could be wrong on that point).

Funny that you mention it! Yes, I've just rediscovered it on a whim a few weeks ago (I didn't even remember I had an account). Some random service I use once a month had a new "PayPal" button. Clicked, entered password, paid. No questions asked. THANKS PAYPAL for bringing back the 90s! (why are they "allowed" to do this? I mean, all this bullshit is probably due to EU regulations or something, and they can't be exempt...)

They allow all kinds of stuff that could land careless people in trouble. Being a careful person, I appreciate the choice to do as I please.

Exactly! I would appreciate the security measures if they were an optional service, maybe even enabled by default so "normal people" (no offense!) won't get into trouble. But please, let me turn them off!

NeuM

@SevenSystems said:

@tja said:

@SevenSystems said:
I've just seen the strangest thing, it kinda ties in with this thread.

So, I get it, everyone's extremely paranoid and I need all these "security" shenenigans in order to be able to access or even view my money. Fine.

So, in order to log in to my bank website on my desktop computer, I need another device (my phone) to "proove" that it's me. OK, sorted.

However, I just actually used my bank's iPhone app properly for the first time (so far I've only ever used it for the "security device" thing) to check my transactions.

IT LET ME STRAIGHT IN AND DID NOT ASK ME TO LOG IN TO MY DESKTOP COMPUTER TO "PROOVE" THAT IT'S ME!

WTF?

So, I need to PROOVE that it's me when I want to do online banking on my desktop, but I do NOT need to PROOVE that it's me when I want to do online banking on my PHONE?

That's insane. I don't see any kind of logic in this. Is my desktop computer somehow less "trustworthy" than my phone?

Now, that is easily explained.

Your device has a unique ID, probably another unique ID for your SIM card.
This allows to make sure that this is your device - but your desktop does not have that.

I don't understand and have never understood any of this.

I am uniquely identified by the fact that I know my login and password. There's nothing to add. I grew up in the 90s, where this was the only piece of information you ever needed to use any service. I've never in my life been "hacked". What has changed since the 90s?

But I hate this "second device" required regime as much as possible.

Thank you for the mental support 😄

Brute force attacks on web sites and third-party sites where personal information is held is increasing, not decreasing. And there will be time soon when quantum computers are used to instantly hack into any site not properly protected. Two factor authentication is just one way you are being protected from these daily attacks. Speaking for myself, I was part of a high profile attack on one of the credit reporting agencies and all of my most critical personal information was made available across the web. Soon after that happened, someone tried to take out a loan in my name. Thankfully, I had notifications enabled for this kind of thing. You SHOULD be concerned about your privacy and security. I'm thankful Apple is trying to get ahead of these criminals because there's no shortage of sloppy security implementations everywhere.

ecou

@NeuM said:

@ecou said:

@NeuM said:

@ecou said:
Wait until crypto take over its gone be even more complicated.

Incidentally, while everyone was sleeping and discussions turned away from Bitcoin, it just broke its all-time high today. It’s not going away.

I never said it was going away. I said it is complicated to use. It will need to simplify for mass media adoption.

Also it is way too easy to make a mistake and loose everything or get scammed.

I’ll respond to this since you responded. There are now ETFs (exchange traded funds) which allow people to invest in BTC without the complications and concerns of holding Bitcoin oneself. So it’s not a big stretch to imagine a service available from stock brokers who will hold your BTC or ETH for you and allow you to draw upon your investment just like a stock or any other investment. Most people don’t take physical possession of their stocks. So it will be for the wider public with cryptos. I think even banks and credit unions may get in on this eventually.

Holding your crypto currency on a exchange is not recommended for the long term. I am just a observer but I did at one point look into it pretty n-depth and did no feel like jumping thru the hoops that we have here in Canada.

wim

@ecou said:

@NeuM said:

@ecou said:

@NeuM said:

@ecou said:
Wait until crypto take over its gone be even more complicated.

Incidentally, while everyone was sleeping and discussions turned away from Bitcoin, it just broke its all-time high today. It’s not going away.

I never said it was going away. I said it is complicated to use. It will need to simplify for mass media adoption.

Also it is way too easy to make a mistake and loose everything or get scammed.

I’ll respond to this since you responded. There are now ETFs (exchange traded funds) which allow people to invest in BTC without the complications and concerns of holding Bitcoin oneself. So it’s not a big stretch to imagine a service available from stock brokers who will hold your BTC or ETH for you and allow you to draw upon your investment just like a stock or any other investment. Most people don’t take physical possession of their stocks. So it will be for the wider public with cryptos. I think even banks and credit unions may get in on this eventually.

Holding your crypto currency on a exchange is not recommended for the long term. I am just a observer but I did at one point look into it pretty n-depth and did no feel like jumping thru the hoops that we have here in Canada.

Trading a cryptocurrency based ETF isn't owning cryptocurrency at all. It's investing in a fund that invests in cryptocurrencies. Your investment value increases or decreases according to the trading value of the fund. It's no different than any other Electronically Traded Fund. One's only exposure is to the risk inherent in the fund. Personally I would consider that high risk at least for now, but it's nothing like trading in cryptocurrency directly.

ecou

@wim said:

@ecou said:

@NeuM said:

@ecou said:

@NeuM said:

@ecou said:
Wait until crypto take over its gone be even more complicated.

Incidentally, while everyone was sleeping and discussions turned away from Bitcoin, it just broke its all-time high today. It’s not going away.

I never said it was going away. I said it is complicated to use. It will need to simplify for mass media adoption.

Also it is way too easy to make a mistake and loose everything or get scammed.

I’ll respond to this since you responded. There are now ETFs (exchange traded funds) which allow people to invest in BTC without the complications and concerns of holding Bitcoin oneself. So it’s not a big stretch to imagine a service available from stock brokers who will hold your BTC or ETH for you and allow you to draw upon your investment just like a stock or any other investment. Most people don’t take physical possession of their stocks. So it will be for the wider public with cryptos. I think even banks and credit unions may get in on this eventually.

Holding your crypto currency on a exchange is not recommended for the long term. I am just a observer but I did at one point look into it pretty n-depth and did no feel like jumping thru the hoops that we have here in Canada.

Trading a cryptocurrency based ETF isn't owning cryptocurrency at all. It's investing in a fund that invests in cryptocurrencies. Your investment value increases or decreases according to the trading value of the fund. It's no different than any other Electronically Traded Fund. One's only exposure is to the risk inherent in the fund. Personally I would consider that high risk at least for now, but it's nothing like trading in cryptocurrency directly.

Thank you for explaining I should have read more in details.

GUB

Idiots, damn bro