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Help with NanoKEY Studio + NanoKONTROL Studio iPad pro set up
Hello all, this forum is filled with the wisest iOS musicians I have ever seen, so I have come to you for advice. After years of only using the touch screen I feel I need more control… so I have decided to invest some money to build a ministudio/performance setup based around my iPad pro (2020) and Korg Gadget.
I’m planning to buy the NanoKEY Studio and NanoKONTROL Studio, but after binging tons of youtube videos and forums threads, I’m still having trouble with the complexity of routing MIDI/power/audio. I have made a diagram of what I think is a simple setup that should work and I want you guys to advice me if I’m missing something crucial or maybe some recommendations and warnings. I don’t often have much money or access to all these cool music tech, so I want to make sure this will work out.
So here it is:
I will be using the ipad pro USB-C port to connect my headphones through the apple headphone jack adapter. Then the NanoKEY Studio and NanoKONTROL Studio will be connected to the iPad through Bluetooth. Then both MIDI controllers will be connected through USB to my Anker power bank which has 2 USB A 12 watts outputs for power.
Would this work? I’m trying to avoid having to buy a USB hub to wire everything to to my ipad, to save money and avoid extra complexity, hence relying on the bluetooth, which I read is quite good. I also thought of using the power bank I already own, rather than buying triple A batteries or rechargeable batteries or power bricks (not sure if the nanokey and nanokontrol come with wall power bricks? I’m guessing they just come with a USB cable). I don’t mind keeping the nanokey and nanokontrol hooked to the powerbank, but is it enough to keep them powered? And can they connect through bluetooth to my ipad while wired to the battery?
I’m also open to consider alternative set ups due to the possibility of the bluetooth not being as good as advertised or wanting to tempo sync the arpeggiator from the nanokey with Gadget’s clock, since I read it does not sync through bluetooth but just by wire, but I was thinking I can just turn on the ARP inside Gadget right?, rather than using the Nanokey arp ?
Thank you for taking the time to read my post.
Comments
That should work fine.
It'll be a problem if you also need to charge the iPad. Also, midi clock doesn't work over bluetooth with the NanoKEY Studio, only over USB. That only affects the onboard ARP though.
I think you could enhance things by using a USB C hub with power delivery on the iPad with the controllers connected through it. Others may be able to comment further on that.
Yes, only USB cable. Obviously with your setup (cables instead of batteries) you do loose the portability of the controllers. If you plan to use it mainly as a fixed setup on a table or whatever that might be fine.
I bought a nanoKey Studio years ago to combine with Gadget. Powered by batteries mostly, but haven’t used it much at all. Found out I prefer the convenience of iPad-only, as an all-in-one ‘groovebox’ on my lap/in front of me on a table.
The nanoKey gave me velocity keys, but Gadget now provides velocity input through the Play page. Only thing missing on the Play page is pitchbend and modwheel (..why Korg?). But the touchpad on the nanoKey Studio sucks for pitchbend/modwheel, imo.
The USB hub is tempting because I could charge the iPad while plugging in my headphones, also it could help wire the controllers and iPad to my wall power so I don’t degrade my anker power bank (plus the wired connection might be more reliable than the bluetooth for the controllers).
There are other possible benefits as well (like HDMI out to connect to my PC monitor, direct ethernet cable into the iPad for stable/fast downloads and connecting external hard drives), but it also brings more complexity and I would need to buy a powerful enough power brick and rated cable for that… so more spending, but it might be worth it due to all the benefits… however I’m a bit intimidated at the amount of choices and quality issues I have read about these USB-C hubs, do you happen to have a recommendation for a good one that has at least a headphone jack and 2 USB-As for the controllers?
In general I just wanted to keep it simple to start, but I’m planning to get a hub and expand eventually.
Yeah the portability is not an issue, because 99% of the time I use my iPad on my desk and keep it plugged in. I would keep the controllers on my keyboard tray plugged into the power bank and that would be fine.
I do like working on the iPad touch screen, that’s how I have been doing it for years…but as you say the velocity was always an issue. I do love vertical velocity keyboards like the animoog and the new Play page on Gadget is a great addition, although it currently has a bug where playing 2 keys right next to each other can make one of them get stuck, already reported and acknowledged by Korg.
However, recently I have been planning on doing some live performance and these controllers would give me the benefit of an extended control surface. With simultaneous access to the mixer (nanokontrol) and synth parameters (nanokey), while also having agile switching between gadgets I’m controlling (either with the select button and native mode or by programming different scenes with the MIDI cc editor, I need to look deeper into that to design my perfect midi performance set up as well…)
Another key benefit for me is that having the nanokeys flat on my keyboard tray would be way more comfortable for my wrists when playing and I could keep my iPad propped up on the desk to use the GUI. Previously I have always played the on screen keyboard while the iPad is propped up but that makes my wrists hurt, so if I’m doing that for a extended period of time I used to put the iPad flat/slightly inclined on the desk, but then that makes using the GUI harder. So having the keys on an external controller would definitely be an upgrade to the ergonomics of the whole thing.
About the touchpad, yeah I do not have high expectations of it, since I have previously tested some touch control faders on an Akai midi controlle and they were disappointing compared to the iPad’s screen. But i’m mainly looking forward to the extra keys, knobs, faders and buttons.
I can see the benefits in your situation, particularly for live performing.
Sorry, I don't have recommendations for a USB-C hub. I have a cheap one I bought from Temu recently, but I'm only using it with a USB-3 adaptor so far. If I was going to be searching for something robust, I think I would try to find one that has switches on the USB-3 ports. There are lots of threads about hubs. You might get lucky with the forum search.
Bluetooth MIDI works great, and to me it's really nice not to have those extra wires. But battery management is a pain. My NanoKEY Studio gets fairly long usage out of a set if rechargeable batteries, but I always have to keep in mind turning them off when not in use, and always have to keep a running total in my head of when they'll need to be replaced.
With iOS 17, it seems like Bluetooth MIDI reconnects automatically, which makes things better. With iOS 15 and below it's necessary to reconnect through the Bluetooth dialog every time. That's a pain in the butt.
Last thought on Bluetooth: I personally don't think I'd trust it in a live situation. Bluetooth is a radio. To put it in a room with dozens or hundreds of other radios ... seems like a problem waiting to happen to me. But on the other hand you don't see people's Bluetooth headsets interfering with each other, so maybe I'm just paranoid.
One thing to consider carefully by way of setting expectations: There's no sync for controller knob and fader positions with these things. So, when you load up a session, there's no correlation between the position of the knobs and the position of the controls they're linked to on the screen. For instance, if an AUM fader is at 80% and it's linked fader on the NanoKONTROL is at 20%, as soon as you move that fader you will get a jump in value.
This can be somewhat manageable If you use apps that support "pickup mode", where the app fader won't move until the hardware fader value crosses it's position and "picks" it up, but it's something you have to keep in mind.
AUM doesn't support pickup mode. Drambo and Loopy Pro do. I'm not sure about Ape Matrix. Anyway, it's something to keep in mind.
I'm not trying to be discouraging. Controllers are great. I'm just trying to lay out the things to be aware of that I didn't really discover until I got my first one.
Yeah the interface in Gadget is not flexible enough for live performance, at least not with the level of control and speed I want. We are setting up a project with my friend who has gotten into doing live music visuals using Hydra (live coding audioreactive visuals) with a projector hooked up to a raspberry pie mini computer. I would be making the music live by remixing and modulating Gadget scenes, so I definitely need as many knobs and faders as possible to keep it interesting.
I understand, this is in fact the type of details I wanted to know about so I can plan ahead accordingly and not feel disappointed, but rather try to find solutions and work arounds, since that is the ethos of making music on an iPad lol.
I had never considered the sync between the physical position of the hardware controls and the software, that’s interesting. Do you know if Gadget does the “pickup mode” with these controllers?
When loading a project I guess I should basically try to set all my hardware knobs and faders to the starting positions of the virtual knobs and faders, then it should be fine during the session itself, right? Because the virtual controls are changing in the same way as the hardware controls change during the session. That would solve the issue at least for the mixer/nanoKontrol…
But there is another issue when switching between Gadgets… that is more troublesome. Since I would be often switching between Gadgets with different virtual knob positions. I would likely get the value jumps unless I could somehow turn off the midi signal to quickly set up the hardware knobs as the virtual patch shows before turning it back on, which I’m guessing is not possible?. Although I could just switch to a muted track set my knobs positions correctly there, then switch back to the Gadget I want to modulate. I could also turn the virtual knob to the position of the hardware knob using the touchscreen… I guess this will mainly be an issue with highly sensitive parameters like the Filter cutoff or Delay time and I should be mindful of the hardware knobs positions when switch between Gadgets.
Do you know any good ideas of how to deal with this issue?
@win so I’m reading about endless encoder knobs, I wonder if this would solve the issue you mentioned?
Only a relatively few apps support endless encoders in relative mode. Drambo and Loopy Pro are the only two I've worked with that do.
Encoders can usually be set between two different modes:
Encoders in absolute mode can sometimes be worse than pots because you don't have any indication of the value they're sending. Some, like the Midi Fighter Twister can display their position via LEDs. However, that relies on feedback from the receiving app, which many (such as AUM and Drambo) don't provide. Faders by nature can't be endless encoders.
For a hub, I would currently recommend this roughly £20 one that has taken over main duties for me:
It's main selling points are it's size (it is tiny) and the fact it has a 4ft cable on it so your device isn't tied to the hub or requiring faffing round with usb c extenders.
It has PD 100 (mains or in my case I attach it to a Charmast PD 100 Power bank when on the move) so will charge your device and all attached devices and has a fully functional additional usb c port. That lets you connect some hardware, use the usb c to 3.5mm adapter direct to hub, or even connect another usb c hub to it without issue. The hub does not have a 3.5mm port but I have found them to be hit and miss quality on hubs. I monitor through a Zoom U-24, but it is no problem for me to monitor via usb c to 3.5mm attached to the hub.
It has HDMi and 3 USB a ports. It is quite happy to "chain" a 4 port hub attached to the usb c or usb a ports to increase ports. In my case, that lets me leave hardware that doesn't come roaming with me attached to an older usb c hub. I simply plug that hub in to this one when I return.
Sorry, no, Gadget doesn't do pickup mode.
That's right. Once you get to the starting point, as long as you only control from the hardware, you're fine. The only exception would be if you recorded some automation in Gadget.
From what I can tell, you're right. When I switch between gadgets, I get jumps in the controls. I can't think of any way to avoid that.
No, sorry, I really can't think of any solutions for that.
@wim said:
I see, so this is an inherent limitation with this specific controller/software combo...
But I just had a better idea. I will still get the nano controllers but I think I will stick to Gadget for sketching/composing, where the controllers will work fine and this is not really an issue. Then I will use Drambo for the live performances, because of the pickup mode and flexible midi learn, which will make using the controllers live a smoother experience.
This actually makes complete sense to me, because Drambo has way more flexibility and experimental sound capabilities, which is exactly what I’m looking for in the live performance. Meanwhile I find Gadget generally more reliable for actually arranging a song.
Gadget makes me more productive because of it’s ease of use, limited scope and efficient CPU/DSP usage. Then I could export my MIDI patterns and sample audio, or use the new auv3 gadgets, into Drambo and make some crazy live remixes with all my auv3 effects/synths and the Drambo modules.
Thanks for bringing this issue to my attention and many thanks for helping me figure this out.
Just a warning though ... pickup mode seems to be broken. I've reported it, but so far haven't heard there's a fix coming. This reminds me I should go check on that over in the Drambo forum.
No problem. It took me a long time to get a feeling for all the limitations of hardware controllers, so I try to save others some of that time.
On a side note, my go-to setup is Loopy Pro with Drambo hosted inside. Drambo mostly does midi sequencing duties, but also sound duties as well. And I'm loving having the Korg gadgets available for use in Loopy.
Good call on using Gadget for composition. I agree it can help with composition and song structure, whereas Drambo and (for me) Loopy are stronger for live jamming.
I'm curious now to try midi export from Gadget for import into Drambo patterns. With the AUv3 gadgets available that could be a great workflow ... at least if/when all the gadgets are available.
One last thought: Gadget can be hosted in Loopy Pro, making it a breeze to capture ideas on the fly and turn them into audio clips that you can mangle to death if you like with Drambo and other FX. And, it has its timeline that you can also use for arrangements. I'm not pushing for Loopy Pro at all, just tossing out ideas.
Oh well that’s annoying, but I have faith in Drambo’s dev, since it’s crazy how many features he has added and how well it works. I finally ordered the nanoKEY Studio 😊, so I will test it when it arrives and do a bug report as well, hopefully it gets fixed soon.
Thanks for real, you have saved me a lot of time and frustration by explaining this things to me.
I was actually considering buying AUM to finally try the approach of connecting multiple apps to a sequencer and I was thinking of using Drambo as the main sequencer, since I really like it’s sequencing and automation features. But I guess loopy pro might work even better since it can sample and loop audio natively and do more stuff than AUM ? I have not looked into it yet, but it looked very flexible. I heard you can make your own user interface/control surface? Because I would definitely love that.
Also I read loopy pro can be more CPU/DSP efficient by doing something akin to freezing tracks, where you can render the audio and turn off all the audio signal processing but then also quickly reverse it to edit the sound source and fx chain, do you know how does that work? I think that would allow me to work with synths like Tera Pro which sound amazing but have a tendency to melt my iPad. I could intermittently freeze it while working on the sound, then sample it and loop it when I’m done, then move on to build more song segments without overwhelming my CPU. I’m guessing that workflow is smooth on loopy pro?
Loopy pro is a bit of a mystery to me, I should watch some videos on it. Do you have any recommendations? Because I’m interested in exploring that workflow.
AUM's main strength is in how intuitive it can be for midi and audio routing. It's main downside for what you want to do is there's no pickup mode for controllers. Also, as you noticed, while you can commit to audio easily, the equivalent of a track "freeze" takes a lot of steps.
Loopy does have almost unlimited ways to customize how you control it. I sometimes wonder if people don't go overboard in that direction, but I'm somewhat of a minimalist. Anyway, Loopy can be as simple or as complicated as you like it to be. It also has a timeline where you can arrange clips, if you're looking for something to help structure songs in addition to jamming.
Yep, that part of Loopy is pure gold. Because you always have the ability to record to a clip, it's easy to just commit to audio when things start to bog down. Then you can mute the original channels and Loopy will idle the plugins used. They'll stop taking up CPU but will be waiting just as you left them if you want to add parts or re-record something.
You can do the same in AUM, but it takes more steps to accomplish, and you need to individually bypass plugins for them to free up their resources.
I'm not a good person to recommend videos as I almost never have the patience to watch them. Hopefully others will step in on that score.
Loopy Pro has a one week free trial. That's a super tight timeline to get a feel for all that it can do. So, if you do decide to try it out, you probably want to be sure to have a lot of available time.
You might want to jump on the Discord channel. There's a crazy amount of information in there if you can find your way around. https://discord.gg/loopy-pro-922977925182132245
[edit] oh ... I should mention that idling of plugins only applies to AUv3 apps. Something like Gadget won't be idled, and can't automatically have its state saved to return to where you left off.