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Ground loop
Hi all. I've been experiencing a fair amount of noise while playing through my combo PA. This also happens when I plug my behringer uca222 powered ipad into my stereo. I always use the interface's mini jack output and haven't yet tried the RCA but I just wondered if anybody else is experiencing ground loop issues and what are the available solutions for getting a semi-pro output on stage/practice room? I've read that found loop isolators affect the sound quality. Are there any other options?
Comments
Is it possible to put them on different circuits (the audio gear on one, the pa on another)? Might try running an extension cable from another room.
And yeah, while it's a terrible idea for all the reasons you already know, you can try putting a 3-to-2 prong adapter on the end of a 2 prong extension cable and plugging the extension cable into the wall.
Plugging gear into different circuits is what causes ground loops- each circuit may have a slightly different ground potential.
I use the "terrible idea" myself, though of course I shouldn't recommend it.
Are you seeing the problem with the whole rig plugged into different circuits? By that, I don't mean different circuits at the same time....I mean try everything on the same circuit in your bedroom, then try it all on a different circuit In your home...or someone else's home even. If it happens everywhere, the problem is your gear, and you can whittle it down to the offender piece by piece from there.
I also recommend symmetrical connections, at least coming out of the Interface into the PA. Never RCA, but TRRS Jacks or XLR. Of course, the output of the interface should be symmetrical, too. If there is still some kind of ground issue, yeah, try having everything on one circuit, and put a good DI in between (Palmer etc., won't affect the sound at all!).
cheers and good luck, t
Using the RCA outputs may reduce the noise, as the RCA connectors have separate ground contacts (as opposed to a shared ground pin on a 3.5mm jack). The better solution would be to get a different audio interface that has balanced outputs (TRS or XLR). Or failing that, run from the UCA222 into a (stereo) DI box, which usually has a ground lift option.
Cool, thanks. I'll try the RCA out and mess around with power sockets. This is battery powered so not many alternatives out there at the moment but may have to go the new novation audio hub route (edit)
RCA have the same ground. so no difference .try a cheap di box and lift the ground...
Wait- it's battery powered? Then it's not effecting grounding issues.
Are you positive you have a ground loop and not some other sort of hum?
Well, I'm not positive about anything. I just remember that my band mate years ago used some gizmo between his laptop and the pa for hum reduction. Actually at the moment I have my usb interface powered by a socket but I remember plugging it into a stereo to showcase my ios set up to a sound engineer friend and he was not impressed either. I thought the noise was mainly due to the output of the interface not being balanced.
Ground loops are caused when gear does not share a common ground. Any device that does not plug into grounded AC is not going to contribute to the problem.
Probably the quickest and cheapest way to figure out if your noise is being caused by a ground loop is to lift the ground and see if it goes away (see syrupcore's post above).
Funny you should say 'lift the ground'. Do you mean just disconnect ground wire from the extension lead? Of so, I used an extension lead that I made from an old mower cable (it has just 2 wires) and I kept getting micro shocks from my guitar strings. I know it is rockandroll and all but It did freak me out a bit!
Well getting shocked is not good, but when you use the 2 connection lead, do you still hear the noise? If it goes away, you did have a ground loop.
yeah, I forgot that you're gear is battery powered. Ground loop likely isn't it though your PA could be possibly miswired.
Do you have a refrigerator or similarly big-ass-old-electric-thing plugged into the same circuit as your PA? Does the PA circuit have a dimmer anywhere on it? Are you using really long unbalanced cables to connect to the PA? Do they run along any power lines or past some huge power supply? Just thinking out loud—these can all cause audible circuit noise.
You could also try looking at your cables, are the Audiocables running alongside the mainsconnectors?, and if so, get them away from each other (you can try to just hold the Audiocables further from the mainscables to see if the issue goes away thus) Mainscabling (or lighting-cables) tend to bleed into unsymmetrical connections, when close to each other. And try switching the circuit everything is plugged into (to exclude possible refrigerator- etc.- issues). Good Luck.
Cheers @amnimal I knew that one and observe it religiously. I think the culprits in this case are:
The amps in themselves produce some buzz but I think when all of this runs together it can get quite, errr....buzzy
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My original question was for future reference when a sound engineer asks me for a decent signal and in the studio should I ever want to record anything properly. To be honest though I will probably have bought the novation audiohub by then so I should be alright.
Still, a lot of useful info cropped up in this thread, thanks!
You need to run everything that is working together into the same main. If you have TVs, window air units, lots of lamps (especially fluorescent, etc) then you should try using a main from another wall or room. My house has some ancient wiring and lots of junk in one room, and I had serious hum until I ran everything audio which worked together into the newest wiring main. Now it sounds perfect. This is the main thing. also furman strips don't hurt if they come off a good common, otherwise they aren't magic.
also it doesn't matter if something is running off the battery - it can still create unbalanced ground. Better to plug it into the same main through a furman strip
@kundalini_snake said:
Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. How do you plug in a battery powered device?